Do you think Chevy's 230 MPG figure is reasonable?

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Old 13 Aug 2009, 10:56 am   #1 (permalink)
Hachiroku ハチロク
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Default Re: Do you think Chevy's 230 MPG figure is reasonable?

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:39:28 -0700, matrixxx09 wrote:

> In the sense that it's a fair reflection of the mileage that your
> average person will get?


LOL! I was thinking of this today in terms of my job.

I am a regional Dell service tech (I actually prefer "Factory
Represntative", myself, which is what the title is.)

I drive up to 350 miles or more per week.

In basic math, not caculating the gas savigns based on even 70MPG:

All my cars get at least 28 MPG combined; the Mazda and the Scion can get
up to 32-34, and we won't even talk about the Supra, esp with the roof off...

So let's settle on 29 MPG, which most modern cars should be able to
average.

The price of the Volt is est $40,000.
(THIS is the car John McCain got to drive in:
http://www.chevy-volt.net/images/Che...Concept-07.jpg
http://www.dancewithshadows.com/blog...e-2-757129.jpg

THIS is the Chevy Prius/Insight they are actually going to sell us:

http://blog.autoworld.com.my/wp-cont...8/09/volt1.jpg )

Generic looks aside, the price is $40,000.

My Scion cost $15,500, but most people spend about $22,000 on a car.

That leaves $18,000

Est the price of gas at $2.85 a gallon

18,000/2.85 is 6316 gallons.

6316X29=183,157.89 miles

So, with a $22,000 car, considering a 'budget' of $40,000, you can buy the
car and pretty much pay for the gas over the life of the car for the same
$40,000. If the car does better then 29 MOG overall, you're that much
ahead. I had a Tercel that cost $12,000 and got 44 MPG, but $12,000 cars
are hard to find.

Let's do this for a Yaris

$40,000-15,000=25,000
25,000/2.85=8771.93
8772*32 (The Yaris gets great mileage, I'd bet 38 or more would be
easy)=280,701 miles, just about the life of a Toyota.


Of course, this way you aren't saving the planet...

As I said, this is simple math, and basicall assumes the Volt gets the
same mileage as the car being compared to it.





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Old 13 Aug 2009, 11:08 am   #2 (permalink)
Hachiroku ハチロク
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Default Re: Do you think Chevy's 230 MPG figure is reasonable?

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:47:56 -0700, matrixxx09 wrote:

> On Aug 13, 3:42*pm, Conscience <nobama@gv.com> wrote:
>> On 2009-08-13 12:39:28 -0700, matrixxx09 <matrixx...@gmail.com> said:
>>
>> > In the sense that it's a fair reflection of the mileage that your
>> > average person will get?

>>
>> Depends. *Maybe the mileage test had it's start in the Rockies, and
>> went dowhill from there. *;-)

>
> Jeez, I at least expect serious answers on CAR questions!



Man, are you in the *WRONG* place!


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Old 13 Aug 2009, 11:20 am   #3 (permalink)
Hachiroku ハチロク
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Default Re: Do you think Chevy's 230 MPG figure is reasonable?

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:00:49 -0700, matrixxx09 wrote:

>> Of course, this way you aren't saving the planet...
>>
>> As I said, this is simple math, and basicall assumes the Volt gets the
>> same mileage as the car being compared to it.

>
> That wasn't at all the question, but it's interesting and brings up an
> important point (one that calls into question the sense of comparing
> the Volt to other cars like that):


OK. Do I think the 230 MPG is reasonable?

Well, it stays on the electric motor for 40 miles, about the same as a
Prius or Insight. If you work at a place like I did, that had plug-ins for
electric vehicles in the parking lot, then it was a 19.7 mile drive to
work, then plug it in; a stop at the grocery store 2 miles away and then
home 19.7 miles, I wouldn't even have had to use 1 gallon of gas for my
commute! That's infinity miles per gallon. It also depends if they have
heating/AC systems dependant on the gas motor, like the Prius/Insight. If
so, the ICE will come on just to provide heating/cooling.

Under conditions described above, 230 MPG is probably conservative. Hey! I
like that!

Now, if they would give us the friggin car they originally showed us...!


>
> In terms of style, performance, comfort, and shit like that, what car
> is the Volt comparable to? Is it comparable to a 'regular' 40K car?
> 30K? 20K?



Prius...Insight...

http://auto.sohu.com/piclib/toyota/t...a_Prius008.jpg
http://msjawahar.files.wordpress.com...oncept_001.jpg
http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradv...da_Insight.jpg
http://blog.autoworld.com.my/wp-cont...8/09/volt2.jpg

Beginning to see a pattern here?

But the Prius is $22-27,000 51/68 MPG

http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/trims-prices.html


Insight is $19,800-23,000 40/43 MPG
http://automobiles.honda.com/insight-hybrid/

So I guess you're paying a premium of $18,000 for 230 MPG. A GM spokeman
said the 230 MPG was actually conservative (there's that word again!) and
some people might see 270 or more.

I bet EPA comes out to 60/75...



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Old 13 Aug 2009, 11:43 am   #4 (permalink)
Hachiroku ハチロク
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Default Re: Do you think Chevy's 230 MPG figure is reasonable?

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:31:09 -0700, matrixxx09 wrote:

> On Aug 13, 12:20 pm, Hachiroku * <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote:
>
>>
>> OK. Do I think the 230 MPG is reasonable?
>>
>> Well, it stays on the electric motor for 40 miles, about the same as a
>> Prius or Insight. If you work at a place like I did, that had plug-ins for
>> electric vehicles in the parking lot, then it was a 19.7 mile drive to
>> work, then plug it in; a stop at the grocery store 2 miles away and then
>> home 19.7 miles, I wouldn't even have had to use 1 gallon of gas for my
>> commute! That's infinity miles per gallon. It also depends if they have
>> heating/AC systems dependant on the gas motor, like the Prius/Insight. If
>> so, the ICE will come on just to provide heating/cooling.
>>
>> Under conditions described above, 230 MPG is probably conservative. Hey! I
>> like that!
>>
>> Now, if they would give us the friggin car they originally showed us...!

>
> Isn't it pretty common for the concept car to not look like the
> finished product? And when you say the styling is 'generic', do you
> really mean that? Do you think if I put a Volt in an Applebee's
> parking lot it wouldn't get lots of "what the heck is that?" looks?


"Hey. Is that a Prius or an Insight?"

The Insight, I think, is larger than the Prius, and the Volt looks the
same as an Insight.


>
> And look at the interior!:
> http://motorcitytimes.com/mct/wp-con...or-revised.jpg


He's a Pinball Wizard
There's got to be a twist!


>
>>
>>
>>
>> > In terms of style, performance, comfort, and shit like that, what car
>> > is the Volt comparable to? Is it comparable to a 'regular' 40K car?
>> > 30K? 20K?

>>
>> Prius...Insight...

>
> So you'd put the Volt, Prius, and Insight as basically equal in terms
> of style, performance, and comfort?


I would guess. Remember, and electric motor get it's torque from 0 RPM.
But I think the Insight is geared for ICE first, and electric as a
booster. It was originally.
>
> Just as a gauge, what about a Prius vs. a Honda Accord? Acura TL?


The Prius is easier entry/egress than an Accord, I have never even sat in
an Acura!

>
>
>> http://auto.sohu.com/piclib/toyota/t...8/09/volt2.jpg
>>
>> Beginning to see a pattern here?
>>
>> But the Prius is $22-27,000 51/68 MPG
>>
>> http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/trims-prices.html
>>
>> Insight is $19,800-23,000 40/43
>> MPGhttp://automobiles.honda.com/insight-hybrid/
>>
>> So I guess you're paying a premium of $18,000 for 230 MPG.

>
> If you equate the Volt with the Insight. Personally I see them as
> worlds apart, and looking and driving the two "blind) (at least how I
> imagine each would drive) I don't think I'd ever suspect they'd be even
> close in price. I'd have said the Volt is certainly the more expensive.
>
>> A GM spokeman
>> said the 230 MPG was actually conservative (there's that word again!)
>> and some people might see 270 or more.
>>
>> I bet EPA comes out to 60/75...

>
> That would be a shame. Very misleading.



We're talking GM here...


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Old 13 Aug 2009, 02:39 pm   #5 (permalink)
matrixxx09
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Default Do you think Chevy's 230 MPG figure is reasonable?

In the sense that it's a fair reflection of the mileage that your
average person will get?

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Old 13 Aug 2009, 02:42 pm   #6 (permalink)
Conscience
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Default Re: Do you think Chevy's 230 MPG figure is reasonable?

On 2009-08-13 12:39:28 -0700, matrixxx09 <matrixxx09@gmail.com> said:

> In the sense that it's a fair reflection of the mileage that your
> average person will get?


Depends. Maybe the mileage test had it's start in the Rockies, and
went dowhill from there. ;-)

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Old 13 Aug 2009, 02:47 pm   #7 (permalink)
matrixxx09
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Default Re: Do you think Chevy's 230 MPG figure is reasonable?

On Aug 13, 3:42*pm, Conscience <nobama@gv.com> wrote:
> On 2009-08-13 12:39:28 -0700, matrixxx09 <matrixx...@gmail.com> said:
>
> > In the sense that it's a fair reflection of the mileage that your
> > average person will get?

>
> Depends. *Maybe the mileage test had it's start in the Rockies, and
> went dowhill from there. *;-)


Jeez, I at least expect serious answers on CAR questions!

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Old 13 Aug 2009, 03:00 pm   #8 (permalink)
matrixxx09
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Default Re: Do you think Chevy's 230 MPG figure is reasonable?

On Aug 13, 11:56 am, Hachiroku ハチロク <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:39:28 -0700, matrixxx09 wrote:
> > In the sense that it's a fair reflection of the mileage that your
> > average person will get?

>
> LOL! I was thinking of this today in terms of my job.
>
> I am a regional Dell service tech (I actually prefer "Factory
> Represntative", myself, which is what the title is.)
>
> I drive up to 350 miles or more per week.
>
> In basic math, not caculating the gas savigns based on even 70MPG:
>
> All my cars get at least 28 MPG combined; the Mazda and the Scion can get
> up to 32-34, and we won't even talk about the Supra, esp with the roof off...
>
> So let's settle on 29 MPG, which most modern cars should be able to
> average.
>
> The price of the Volt is est $40,000.
> (THIS is the car John McCain got to drive in:http://www.chevy-volt.net/images/Che...evy-volt-pictu...
>
> THIS is the Chevy Prius/Insight they are actually going to sell us:
>
> http://blog.autoworld.com.my/wp-cont...8/09/volt1.jpg )
>
> Generic looks aside, the price is $40,000.
>
> My Scion cost $15,500, but most people spend about $22,000 on a car.
>
> That leaves $18,000
>
> Est the price of gas at $2.85 a gallon
>
> 18,000/2.85 is 6316 gallons.
>
> 6316X29=183,157.89 miles
>
> So, with a $22,000 car, considering a 'budget' of $40,000, you can buy the
> car and pretty much pay for the gas over the life of the car for the same
> $40,000. If the car does better then 29 MOG overall, you're that much
> ahead. I had a Tercel that cost $12,000 and got 44 MPG, but $12,000 cars
> are hard to find.
>
> Let's do this for a Yaris
>
> $40,000-15,000=25,000
> 25,000/2.85=8771.93
> 8772*32 (The Yaris gets great mileage, I'd bet 38 or more would be
> easy)=280,701 miles, just about the life of a Toyota.
>
> Of course, this way you aren't saving the planet...
>
> As I said, this is simple math, and basicall assumes the Volt gets the
> same mileage as the car being compared to it.


That wasn't at all the question, but it's interesting and brings up an
important point (one that calls into question the sense of comparing
the Volt to other cars like that):

In terms of style, performance, comfort, and shit like that, what car
is the Volt comparable to? Is it comparable to a 'regular' 40K car?
30K? 20K?
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Old 13 Aug 2009, 03:21 pm   #9 (permalink)
Hachiroku ハチロク
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Default Re: Do you think Chevy's 230 MPG figure is reasonable?

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:48:08 -0400, Mike wrote:

> The mileage figure is from the EPA


No, it's not. It's GM's 'estimate'. The spokesperson who was talking about
the car on NBC nightly news last night said in their testing they actually
came up with a HIGHER MPG figure, but cut it back to be 'conservative'. He
said the car has not yet been rated by the EPA.


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Old 13 Aug 2009, 03:24 pm   #10 (permalink)
Hachiroku ハチロク
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Default Re: Do you think Chevy's 230 MPG figure is reasonable?

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:31:13 -0700, Conscience wrote:

> On 2009-08-13 12:47:56 -0700, matrixxx09 <matrixxx09@gmail.com> said:
>
>> On Aug 13, 3:42*pm, Conscience <nobama@gv.com> wrote:
>>> On 2009-08-13 12:39:28 -0700, matrixxx09 <matrixx...@gmail.com> said:
>>>
>>>> In the sense that it's a fair reflection of the mileage that your
>>>> average person will get?
>>>
>>> Depends. *Maybe the mileage test had it's start in the Rockies, and
>>> went dowhill from there. *;-)

>>
>> Jeez, I at least expect serious answers on CAR questions!

>
> I'm just cynical about mileage claims for any vehicle.



Me too.

With my Toyotas, I generally do better. The EPA highway figure on my
'hachiroku' was 32 MPG. I averaged 35 overall.

The EPA Highway on my 1978 Corolla 1200 was 34, I managed 38, overall.

The '80 Corolla was rated 30 MPG Highway, I averaged 34 overall.


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