'96 camry engine clattering when cold

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Old 09 Dec 2008, 10:57 am   #1 (permalink)
mrdarrett@gmail.com
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Default '96 camry engine clattering when cold

My '96 Camry (159,000 miles) is parked outside where the temp is 30-40
degrees (sometimes has ice on the windshield).

When starting the car the engine makes a clattering sound, which goes
away once the engine is warm.

Is this "piston slap"?

Can this be fixed with a heavier weight oil? (It's due for an oil
change anyway.)

Will the noise shorten the life of the engine?

Thanks,

Michael
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Old 09 Dec 2008, 12:33 pm   #2 (permalink)
C. E. White
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Default Re: '96 camry engine clattering when cold


<mrdarrett@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bc123a72-00ba-4350-b72a-7525af41c1ab@i18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> My '96 Camry (159,000 miles) is parked outside where the temp is
> 30-40
> degrees (sometimes has ice on the windshield).
>
> When starting the car the engine makes a clattering sound, which
> goes
> away once the engine is warm.
>
> Is this "piston slap"?
>
> Can this be fixed with a heavier weight oil? (It's due for an oil
> change anyway.)
>
> Will the noise shorten the life of the engine?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael


It is likely to be piston slap, but it could also mean you need the
valves adjusting. Changing the oil may solve the problem, or at least
mask it. However, heavier oil might not be the best choice to address
this concern. I'd suggest trying a different brand of oil, or even
Mobil 1, of the recommended viscosity first.

A good mechanic can tell you whether the noise is piston slap, rod
knock, or loose valves. Given the number of miles, and the fact that
it goes away as the engine warms up, I'd say piston slap is a definite
possibility.

Will mild piston slap hurt the life of your engine? I suppose it
might, but not greatly, and until you have other symptoms (like
excessive oil consumption), I would not have it fixed. The fix will be
the same either way. It is not a case of pay me now or pay me more
later. The fix for piston slap is pay me a lot whenever. As long as
the engine is performing satisfactorily, it is an avoidable cost.

One final recommendation - be sure you use a good oil filter with a
proper anti-drain back valve. If you don't want to use the OE Toyota
filter, then use a WIX, NAPA Gold, or Purolator Pure One oil filter.
Stay away from the cheap crap or the expensive but cheaply made crap.

Ed

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Old 09 Dec 2008, 12:53 pm   #3 (permalink)
SMS
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Default Re: '96 camry engine clattering when cold

mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> My '96 Camry (159,000 miles) is parked outside where the temp is 30-40
> degrees (sometimes has ice on the windshield).
>
> When starting the car the engine makes a clattering sound, which goes
> away once the engine is warm.
>
> Is this "piston slap"?
>
> Can this be fixed with a heavier weight oil? (It's due for an oil
> change anyway.)
>
> Will the noise shorten the life of the engine?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael


I4 or V6?

I have the same year Camry, 4 cylinder, with similar mileage, and
similar weather. There was ice on the windshield this morning.

I haven't had any clattering in cold weather. I would wonder if the oil
filter's anti-drain-back valve is working, and which oil you are using
(10W30 or 5W30).

I don't believe that a heavier weight oil will fix it. Use an OEM Toyota
filter, and 5W30 oil before getting an analysis from a mechanic.
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Old 09 Dec 2008, 01:00 pm   #4 (permalink)
ransley
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Default Re: '96 camry engine clattering when cold

On Dec 9, 10:57*am, mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:
> My '96 Camry (159,000 miles) is parked outside where the temp is 30-40
> degrees (sometimes has ice on the windshield).
>
> When starting the car the engine makes a clattering sound, which goes
> away once the engine is warm.
>
> Is this "piston slap"?
>
> Can this be fixed with a heavier weight oil? *(It's due for an oil
> change anyway.)
>
> Will the noise shorten the life of the engine?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael


Is yours with the filter upside down, Change to a toyota filter I have
had some Fram that the anti drain valve didnt work, its only got
160000, what did you expect, im sure all oil changes in the past were
at the right time. Mine has always had a bit of noise and more if its
not run every day.
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Old 09 Dec 2008, 02:02 pm   #5 (permalink)
mrdarrett@gmail.com
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Default Re: '96 camry engine clattering when cold

On Dec 9, 10:53 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > My '96 Camry (159,000 miles) is parked outside where the temp is 30-40
> > degrees (sometimes has ice on the windshield).

>
> > When starting the car the engine makes a clattering sound, which goes
> > away once the engine is warm.

>
> > Is this "piston slap"?

>
> > Can this be fixed with a heavier weight oil? (It's due for an oil
> > change anyway.)

>
> > Will the noise shorten the life of the engine?

>
> > Thanks,

>
> > Michael

>
> I4 or V6?
>
> I have the same year Camry, 4 cylinder, with similar mileage, and
> similar weather. There was ice on the windshield this morning.
>
> I haven't had any clattering in cold weather. I would wonder if the oil
> filter's anti-drain-back valve is working, and which oil you are using
> (10W30 or 5W30).
>
> I don't believe that a heavier weight oil will fix it. Use an OEM Toyota
> filter, and 5W30 oil before getting an analysis from a mechanic.



It's an I4.

So I should use a thinner oil, eh?

I think I used a Toyota filter. Last oil change was 7000 miles ago,
10W-30. Some oil changes were done within 8000 miles, some at 5-6k
miles

It leaks oil - about 1 quart per 1,000 miles. I would have changed
the oil sooner, but I just put in another quart about 500 miles ago,
then realized, d'oh, I could have just changed the oil... dipstick
says it's still full though... kind of a waste to change the oil after
adding a whole new quart. I'm waiting for the dipstick to read maybe
1/2...

At this mileage, I'm pretty much hoping for another 20,000 miles.
Repairs exceeding $1000 probably aren't warranted at this point - we
have our eyes on probably buying a van within the next 2 years or
so...

Thanks,

Michael
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Old 09 Dec 2008, 08:07 pm   #6 (permalink)
johngdole@hotmail.com
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Default Re: '96 camry engine clattering when cold

Even dino 10W-30 should work fine at those temperatures. If it's oil
flow related at lower temperatures, then dino or Mobil-1 5W-30 should
help quiet down. If it's piston slap, a lower viscosity oil probably
won't help. You need to go thicker like High Mileage oils do and even
that might not do much.

But one thing at a time, first try to identify the source of the
noise. You can check the source of the chatter by using a mechanic's
stethoscope (HF has it on sale I think, for $1.99 coupon) or a long
screwdriver. Be careful of moving engine parts. If the noise comes
from the top (cover screws) then it's likely valve chatter, but if the
noise comes from the engine block then it's piston slap. It's not
recommended to just place the stethoscope on the valve cover, because
you'll hear all sorts of noises. Valves can be adjusted easily;
however, piston slap means excessive piston-bore clearance = poor
production (like the new Toyota/Lexus 3.5L V6) or more likely in your
case high mileage wear and tear.

If going lower viscosity try Mobil-1 5W-30 and a Purolator PureOne or
Bosch filter. Use the taller like PureOne PL14477 version for the 2.4L
engine, not the shorty 14476 for 2.2L. 7K on the wimpy filter is a bit
long. Besides, Toyota lowered the NORMAL service interval down to 5000
miles for all their vehicles (I say for a good reason). Severe service
I'd cut to 2500-3000 miles.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=41966



On Dec 9, 8:57*am, mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:
> My '96 Camry (159,000 miles) is parked outside where the temp is 30-40
> degrees (sometimes has ice on the windshield).
>
> When starting the car the engine makes a clattering sound, which goes
> away once the engine is warm.
>
> Is this "piston slap"?
>
> Can this be fixed with a heavier weight oil? *(It's due for an oil
> change anyway.)
>
> Will the noise shorten the life of the engine?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael


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Old 09 Dec 2008, 11:35 pm   #7 (permalink)
SMS
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Default Re: '96 camry engine clattering when cold

mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 9, 10:53 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> My '96 Camry (159,000 miles) is parked outside where the temp is 30-40
>>> degrees (sometimes has ice on the windshield).
>>> When starting the car the engine makes a clattering sound, which goes
>>> away once the engine is warm.
>>> Is this "piston slap"?
>>> Can this be fixed with a heavier weight oil? (It's due for an oil
>>> change anyway.)
>>> Will the noise shorten the life of the engine?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Michael

>> I4 or V6?
>>
>> I have the same year Camry, 4 cylinder, with similar mileage, and
>> similar weather. There was ice on the windshield this morning.
>>
>> I haven't had any clattering in cold weather. I would wonder if the oil
>> filter's anti-drain-back valve is working, and which oil you are using
>> (10W30 or 5W30).
>>
>> I don't believe that a heavier weight oil will fix it. Use an OEM Toyota
>> filter, and 5W30 oil before getting an analysis from a mechanic.

>
>
> It's an I4.
>
> So I should use a thinner oil, eh?
>
> I think I used a Toyota filter. Last oil change was 7000 miles ago,
> 10W-30. Some oil changes were done within 8000 miles, some at 5-6k
> miles


5W30 is better for colder weather. At temperature, it's the same as 10W30.

> It leaks oil - about 1 quart per 1,000 miles.


Leaks or burns?
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Old 10 Dec 2008, 07:57 am   #8 (permalink)
ransley
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Default Re: '96 camry engine clattering when cold

On Dec 9, 2:02*pm, mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 9, 10:53 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > My '96 Camry (159,000 miles) is parked outside where the temp is 30-40
> > > degrees (sometimes has ice on the windshield).

>
> > > When starting the car the engine makes a clattering sound, which goes
> > > away once the engine is warm.

>
> > > Is this "piston slap"?

>
> > > Can this be fixed with a heavier weight oil? *(It's due for an oil
> > > change anyway.)

>
> > > Will the noise shorten the life of the engine?

>
> > > Thanks,

>
> > > Michael

>
> > I4 or V6?

>
> > I have the same year Camry, 4 cylinder, with similar mileage, and
> > similar weather. There was ice on the windshield this morning.

>
> > I haven't had any clattering in cold weather. I would wonder if the oil
> > filter's anti-drain-back valve is working, and which oil you are using
> > (10W30 or 5W30).

>
> > I don't believe that a heavier weight oil will fix it. Use an OEM Toyota
> > filter, and 5W30 oil before getting an analysis from a mechanic.

>
> It's an I4.
>
> So I should use a thinner oil, eh?
>
> I think I used a Toyota filter. *Last oil change was 7000 miles ago,
> 10W-30. *Some oil changes were done within 8000 miles, some at 5-6k
> miles
>
> It leaks oil - about 1 quart per 1,000 miles. *I would have changed
> the oil sooner, but I just put in another quart about 500 miles ago,
> then realized, d'oh, I could have just changed the oil... dipstick
> says it's still full though... kind of a waste to change the oil after
> adding a whole new quart. *I'm waiting for the dipstick to read maybe
> 1/2...
>
> At this mileage, I'm pretty much hoping for another 20,000 miles.
> Repairs exceeding $1000 probably aren't warranted at this point - we
> have our eyes on probably buying a van within the next 2 years or
> so...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


8000m changes, I have never had oil that looked good after 4000,
unless all you did was Hwy driving then there is a clue. I have seen
oil ruined after 1500 miles by my mom that drove 1 mile a day and in
winter thats bad, the same car I now drive and the oil looks better
than it did with 4000 on it. A broomstick handle works like a
stethascope and is long so its easy to use. If 10-30 was to thick then
5 30 will help but it is most likely a loose motor and it might make
it worse, since you use a good filter thats not the issue, but
7000-8000 mile changes are only for all hwy miles, read your manual,
where I live everything is considered Severe conditions and severe
means 3-4000 mile changes.
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Old 10 Dec 2008, 09:14 am   #9 (permalink)
mrdarrett@gmail.com
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Default Re: '96 camry engine clattering when cold

On Dec 9, 9:35 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Dec 9, 10:53 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >> mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> My '96 Camry (159,000 miles) is parked outside where the temp is 30-40
> >>> degrees (sometimes has ice on the windshield).
> >>> When starting the car the engine makes a clattering sound, which goes
> >>> away once the engine is warm.
> >>> Is this "piston slap"?
> >>> Can this be fixed with a heavier weight oil? (It's due for an oil
> >>> change anyway.)
> >>> Will the noise shorten the life of the engine?
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Michael
> >> I4 or V6?

>
> >> I have the same year Camry, 4 cylinder, with similar mileage, and
> >> similar weather. There was ice on the windshield this morning.

>
> >> I haven't had any clattering in cold weather. I would wonder if the oil
> >> filter's anti-drain-back valve is working, and which oil you are using
> >> (10W30 or 5W30).

>
> >> I don't believe that a heavier weight oil will fix it. Use an OEM Toyota
> >> filter, and 5W30 oil before getting an analysis from a mechanic.

>
> > It's an I4.

>
> > So I should use a thinner oil, eh?

>
> > I think I used a Toyota filter. Last oil change was 7000 miles ago,
> > 10W-30. Some oil changes were done within 8000 miles, some at 5-6k
> > miles

>
> 5W30 is better for colder weather. At temperature, it's the same as 10W30.
>
> > It leaks oil - about 1 quart per 1,000 miles.

>
> Leaks or burns?



ah... burns.

I'll change it and see what happens...

thanks all

Michael
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Old 11 Dec 2008, 09:33 am   #10 (permalink)
C. E. White
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Default Re: '96 camry engine clattering when cold


"ransley" <Mark_Ransley@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a2e6005a-a91d-46e7-9dd3-ff1be8073c99@20g2000yqt.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 9, 2:02 pm, mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:

>...where I live everything is considered Severe conditions and severe
> means 3-4000 mile changes.


This is probably not true. Jiffy Lube might claim this, but Toyota
does not. For a 1997, Toyota required 5000 mile oil changes for
certain special operating conditions, otherwise it was 7500 miles.
After all the sludge problems, Toyota just starting specifying 5000
mile oil changes for all conditions. They do not have a 3,000 mile
recommendation. Ford does a good job of explaining when you need to go
to a shorter oil change intervals and clearly, most owners don't need
to. GM does even better, they include an oil life calculator routine
in the engine's PCM that adjusts the oil change interval based on
driving conditions.

Ed

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