Some states want to punish fuel-efficient car drivers

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Old 07 Jan 2009, 11:14 pm   #1 (permalink)
Tim Howard
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Default Some states want to punish fuel-efficient car drivers

Oregon looks at taxing mileage instead of gasoline
By RYAN KOST, Associated Press Writer Ryan Kost, Associated Press Writer
Sat Jan 3, 7:38 am ET


PORTLAND, Ore. Oregon is among a growing number of states exploring
ways to tax drivers based on the number of miles they drive instead of
how much gas they use, even going so far as to install GPS monitoring
devices in 300 vehicles. The idea first emerged nearly 10 years ago as
Oregon lawmakers worried that fuel-efficient cars such as gas-electric
hybrids could pose a threat to road upkeep, which is paid for largely
with gasoline taxes.

"I'm glad we're taking a look at it before the potholes get so big that
we can't even get out of them," said Leroy Younglove, a Portland driver
who participated in a recent pilot program.

The proposal is not without critics, including drivers who are concerned
about privacy and others who fear the tax could eliminate the financial
incentive for buying efficient vehicles.

But Oregon is ahead of the nation in exploring the concept, even though
it will probably be years before any mileage tax is adopted.

Congress is talking about it, too. A congressional commission has
envisioned a system similar to the prototype Oregon tested in 2006-2007.

The National Commission on Surface Transportation Infrastructure
Financing is considering calling for higher gas taxes to keep highways,
bridges and transit programs in good shape.

But over the long term, commission members say, the nation should
consider taxing mileage rather than gasoline as drivers use more
fuel-efficient and electric vehicles.

As cars burn less fuel, "the gas tax isn't going to fill the bill," said
Rep. Peter DeFazio of Oregon, a member of the House Transportation and
Infrastructure Committee.

The next Congress "could begin to set the stage, perhaps looking at some
much more robust pilot programs, to begin the research, to work with
manufacturers."

Gov. Ted Kulongoski has included development money for the tax in his
budget proposal, and interest is growing in a number of other states.

Governors in Idaho and Rhode Island have considered systems that would
require drivers to report their mileage when they register vehicles.

In North Carolina last month, a panel suggested charging motorists a
quarter-cent for every mile as a substitute for the gas tax.

James Whitty, the Oregon Department of Transportation employee in charge
of the state's effort, said he's also heard talk of mileage tax
proposals in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, Colorado and Minnesota.

"There is kind of a coalition that's naturally forming around this," he
said.

Also fueling the search for alternatives is the political difficulty of
raising gasoline taxes.

The federal gas tax has not been raised since 1993, and nearly two dozen
states have not changed their taxes since 1997, according to the
American Road & Transportation Builders Association.

In Oregon's pilot program, officials equipped 300 vehicles with GPS
transponders that worked wirelessly with service station pumps, allowing
drivers to pay their mileage tax just as they do their gas tax.

Whitty said the test, which involved two gas stations in the Portland
area, proved the idea could work.

Though the GPS devices did not track the cars' locations in great
detail, they could determine when a driver had left certain zones, such
as the state of Oregon. They also kept track of the time the driving was
done, so a premium could be charged for rush-hour mileage.

The proposal envisions a gradual change, with manufacturers installing
the technology in new vehicles because retrofitting old cars would be
too expensive. Owners of older vehicles would continue to pay gasoline
taxes.

The difference in tax based on mileage or on gasoline would be small
"pennies per transaction at the pump," Whitty said.

But the mileage tax still faces several major obstacles.

For one, Oregon accounts for only a small part of auto sales, so the
state can't go it alone. A multistate or national system would be needed.

Another concern is that such devices could threaten privacy. Whitty said
he and his task force have assured people that the program does not
track detailed movement and that driving history is not stored and
cannot be accessed by law enforcement agencies.

"I think most people will come to realize there is really no tracking
issue and will continue to buy new cars," Whitty said, noting that many
cell phones now come equipped with GPS, which has not deterred customers.

Others are worried that a mileage tax would undermine years of
incentives to switch toward more fuel-efficient vehicles.

"It doesn't seem fair," said Paul Niedergang of Portland, that a hybrid
would be taxed as much as his Dodge pickup. "I just think the gas tax
needs to be updated."

Lynda Williams, also of Portland, was not immediately sold on the idea
but said it was worth consideration.

"We all have to be open-minded," she said. "Our current system just
isn't working."
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Old 08 Jan 2009, 12:48 am   #2 (permalink)
Route101
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Default Re: Some states want to punish fuel-efficient car drivers

Oregon has cheap ($54 for a car for 2 years) vehicle registrations and no
sales tax. However, we have higher income taxes (9%) and property taxes
(while our property values decreased, the property taxes went up the maximum
3% again this year. Oregon also gives a $1,500 state income tax credit for
purchase of any hybrid car without sales quotas or model limits. However,
Oregonians are protective of their privacy and may force it to a vote if
proposed or enacted. I'm not going to have someone stick a(nother) GPS in my
'07 Camry Hybrid. DeFazio is my Rep. and I usually like his actions, but I
think they should be looking elsewhere for revenues to fix roads. Maybe
vehicle weights could be factored into registrations, but that would be hard
to do with interstate trucks, unless states adopt similar systems, which
they won't. Heavier vehicles may do more wear. Also, with gas prices way
back down (for now), adding a few cents tax may not be so bad. But aren't
road and bridge projects supposed to be a big part of the next economic
stimulus package? Frankly I think miles driven is only marginally related to
road wear. Seems like another case where some people choose a conclusion or
action then work backwards to try to come up for a rationale for doing it -
like not letting us pump our own gas, the only state left now that NJ
changed its law.
.................................................. .................
January 20, 2009 - The End of an Error

"Tim Howard" <tim.howard@suddenlink.net> wrote in message
news:49658bbe$0$5474$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net. ..
> Oregon looks at taxing mileage instead of gasoline
> By RYAN KOST, Associated Press Writer Ryan Kost, Associated Press Writer
> Sat Jan 3, 7:38 am ET
>
>
> PORTLAND, Ore. Oregon is among a growing number of states exploring ways
> to tax drivers based on the number of miles they drive instead of how much
> gas they use, even going so far as to install GPS monitoring devices in
> 300 vehicles. The idea first emerged nearly 10 years ago as Oregon
> lawmakers worried that fuel-efficient cars such as gas-electric hybrids
> could pose a threat to road upkeep, which is paid for largely with
> gasoline taxes.
>
> "I'm glad we're taking a look at it before the potholes get so big that we
> can't even get out of them," said Leroy Younglove, a Portland driver who
> participated in a recent pilot program.
>
> The proposal is not without critics, including drivers who are concerned
> about privacy and others who fear the tax could eliminate the financial
> incentive for buying efficient vehicles.
>
> But Oregon is ahead of the nation in exploring the concept, even though it
> will probably be years before any mileage tax is adopted.
>
> Congress is talking about it, too. A congressional commission has
> envisioned a system similar to the prototype Oregon tested in 2006-2007.
>
> The National Commission on Surface Transportation Infrastructure Financing
> is considering calling for higher gas taxes to keep highways, bridges and
> transit programs in good shape.
>
> But over the long term, commission members say, the nation should consider
> taxing mileage rather than gasoline as drivers use more fuel-efficient and
> electric vehicles.
>
> As cars burn less fuel, "the gas tax isn't going to fill the bill," said
> Rep. Peter DeFazio of Oregon, a member of the House Transportation and
> Infrastructure Committee.
>
> The next Congress "could begin to set the stage, perhaps looking at some
> much more robust pilot programs, to begin the research, to work with
> manufacturers."
>
> Gov. Ted Kulongoski has included development money for the tax in his
> budget proposal, and interest is growing in a number of other states.
>
> Governors in Idaho and Rhode Island have considered systems that would
> require drivers to report their mileage when they register vehicles.
>
> In North Carolina last month, a panel suggested charging motorists a
> quarter-cent for every mile as a substitute for the gas tax.
>
> James Whitty, the Oregon Department of Transportation employee in charge
> of the state's effort, said he's also heard talk of mileage tax proposals
> in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, Colorado and Minnesota.
>
> "There is kind of a coalition that's naturally forming around this," he
> said.
>
> Also fueling the search for alternatives is the political difficulty of
> raising gasoline taxes.
>
> The federal gas tax has not been raised since 1993, and nearly two dozen
> states have not changed their taxes since 1997, according to the American
> Road & Transportation Builders Association.
>
> In Oregon's pilot program, officials equipped 300 vehicles with GPS
> transponders that worked wirelessly with service station pumps, allowing
> drivers to pay their mileage tax just as they do their gas tax.
>
> Whitty said the test, which involved two gas stations in the Portland
> area, proved the idea could work.
>
> Though the GPS devices did not track the cars' locations in great detail,
> they could determine when a driver had left certain zones, such as the
> state of Oregon. They also kept track of the time the driving was done, so
> a premium could be charged for rush-hour mileage.
>
> The proposal envisions a gradual change, with manufacturers installing the
> technology in new vehicles because retrofitting old cars would be too
> expensive. Owners of older vehicles would continue to pay gasoline taxes.
>
> The difference in tax based on mileage or on gasoline would be small
> "pennies per transaction at the pump," Whitty said.
>
> But the mileage tax still faces several major obstacles.
>
> For one, Oregon accounts for only a small part of auto sales, so the state
> can't go it alone. A multistate or national system would be needed.
>
> Another concern is that such devices could threaten privacy. Whitty said
> he and his task force have assured people that the program does not track
> detailed movement and that driving history is not stored and cannot be
> accessed by law enforcement agencies.
>
> "I think most people will come to realize there is really no tracking
> issue and will continue to buy new cars," Whitty said, noting that many
> cell phones now come equipped with GPS, which has not deterred customers.
>
> Others are worried that a mileage tax would undermine years of incentives
> to switch toward more fuel-efficient vehicles.
>
> "It doesn't seem fair," said Paul Niedergang of Portland, that a hybrid
> would be taxed as much as his Dodge pickup. "I just think the gas tax
> needs to be updated."
>
> Lynda Williams, also of Portland, was not immediately sold on the idea but
> said it was worth consideration.
>
> "We all have to be open-minded," she said. "Our current system just isn't
> working."


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Old 08 Jan 2009, 05:58 am   #3 (permalink)
Michael Pardee
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Default Re: Some states want to punish fuel-efficient car drivers

"Tim Howard" <tim.howard@suddenlink.net> wrote in message
news:49658bbe$0$5474$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net. ..
> Oregon looks at taxing mileage instead of gasoline
> By RYAN KOST, Associated Press Writer Ryan Kost, Associated Press Writer
> Sat Jan 3, 7:38 am ET
>


This has been kicking around for a while now - I must have seen the first
mention in the AP a couple years ago. Oregon has some odd ideas from time to
time. And of course my home state of Arizona never has any odd ideas ;-)

Mike


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Old 08 Jan 2009, 06:09 am   #4 (permalink)
Fat Moe
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Default Re: Some states want to punish fuel-efficient car drivers

Route101 wrote:
> Oregon has cheap ($54 for a car for 2 years) vehicle registrations and
> no sales tax. However, we have higher income taxes (9%) and property
> taxes (while our property values decreased, the property taxes went up
> the maximum 3% again this year. Oregon also gives a $1,500 state income
> tax credit for purchase of any hybrid car without sales quotas or model
> limits. However, Oregonians are protective of their privacy and may
> force it to a vote if proposed or enacted. I'm not going to have someone
> stick a(nother) GPS in my '07 Camry Hybrid. DeFazio is my Rep. and I
> usually like his actions, but I think they should be looking elsewhere
> for revenues to fix roads. Maybe vehicle weights could be factored into
> registrations, but that would be hard to do with interstate trucks,
> unless states adopt similar systems, which they won't. Heavier vehicles
> may do more wear. Also, with gas prices way back down (for now), adding
> a few cents tax may not be so bad. But aren't road and bridge projects
> supposed to be a big part of the next economic stimulus package? Frankly
> I think miles driven is only marginally related to road wear. Seems like
> another case where some people choose a conclusion or action then work
> backwards to try to come up for a rationale for doing it - like not
> letting us pump our own gas, the only state left now that NJ changed its
> law.
> .................................................. ................
> January 20, 2009 - The End of an Error
>
> "Tim Howard" <tim.howard@suddenlink.net> wrote in message
> news:49658bbe$0$5474$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net. ..
>> Oregon looks at taxing mileage instead of gasoline
>> By RYAN KOST, Associated Press Writer Ryan Kost, Associated Press
>> Writer Sat Jan 3, 7:38 am ET
>>
>>
>> PORTLAND, Ore. Oregon is among a growing number of states exploring
>> ways to tax drivers based on the number of miles they drive instead of
>> how much gas they use, even going so far as to install GPS monitoring
>> devices in 300 vehicles. The idea first emerged nearly 10 years ago as
>> Oregon lawmakers worried that fuel-efficient cars such as gas-electric
>> hybrids could pose a threat to road upkeep, which is paid for largely
>> with gasoline taxes.
>>
>> "I'm glad we're taking a look at it before the potholes get so big
>> that we can't even get out of them," said Leroy Younglove, a Portland
>> driver who participated in a recent pilot program.
>>
>> The proposal is not without critics, including drivers who are
>> concerned about privacy and others who fear the tax could eliminate
>> the financial incentive for buying efficient vehicles.
>>
>> But Oregon is ahead of the nation in exploring the concept, even
>> though it will probably be years before any mileage tax is adopted.
>>
>> Congress is talking about it, too. A congressional commission has
>> envisioned a system similar to the prototype Oregon tested in 2006-2007.
>>
>> The National Commission on Surface Transportation Infrastructure
>> Financing is considering calling for higher gas taxes to keep
>> highways, bridges and transit programs in good shape.
>>
>> But over the long term, commission members say, the nation should
>> consider taxing mileage rather than gasoline as drivers use more
>> fuel-efficient and electric vehicles.
>>
>> As cars burn less fuel, "the gas tax isn't going to fill the bill,"
>> said Rep. Peter DeFazio of Oregon, a member of the House
>> Transportation and Infrastructure Committee.
>>
>> The next Congress "could begin to set the stage, perhaps looking at
>> some much more robust pilot programs, to begin the research, to work
>> with manufacturers."
>>
>> Gov. Ted Kulongoski has included development money for the tax in his
>> budget proposal, and interest is growing in a number of other states.
>>
>> Governors in Idaho and Rhode Island have considered systems that would
>> require drivers to report their mileage when they register vehicles.
>>
>> In North Carolina last month, a panel suggested charging motorists a
>> quarter-cent for every mile as a substitute for the gas tax.
>>
>> James Whitty, the Oregon Department of Transportation employee in
>> charge of the state's effort, said he's also heard talk of mileage tax
>> proposals in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, Colorado and Minnesota.
>>
>> "There is kind of a coalition that's naturally forming around this,"
>> he said.
>>
>> Also fueling the search for alternatives is the political difficulty
>> of raising gasoline taxes.
>>
>> The federal gas tax has not been raised since 1993, and nearly two
>> dozen states have not changed their taxes since 1997, according to the
>> American Road & Transportation Builders Association.
>>
>> In Oregon's pilot program, officials equipped 300 vehicles with GPS
>> transponders that worked wirelessly with service station pumps,
>> allowing drivers to pay their mileage tax just as they do their gas tax.
>>
>> Whitty said the test, which involved two gas stations in the Portland
>> area, proved the idea could work.
>>
>> Though the GPS devices did not track the cars' locations in great
>> detail, they could determine when a driver had left certain zones,
>> such as the state of Oregon. They also kept track of the time the
>> driving was done, so a premium could be charged for rush-hour mileage.
>>
>> The proposal envisions a gradual change, with manufacturers installing
>> the technology in new vehicles because retrofitting old cars would be
>> too expensive. Owners of older vehicles would continue to pay gasoline
>> taxes.
>>
>> The difference in tax based on mileage or on gasoline would be small
>> "pennies per transaction at the pump," Whitty said.
>>
>> But the mileage tax still faces several major obstacles.
>>
>> For one, Oregon accounts for only a small part of auto sales, so the
>> state can't go it alone. A multistate or national system would be needed.
>>
>> Another concern is that such devices could threaten privacy. Whitty
>> said he and his task force have assured people that the program does
>> not track detailed movement and that driving history is not stored and
>> cannot be accessed by law enforcement agencies.
>>
>> "I think most people will come to realize there is really no tracking
>> issue and will continue to buy new cars," Whitty said, noting that
>> many cell phones now come equipped with GPS, which has not deterred
>> customers.
>>
>> Others are worried that a mileage tax would undermine years of
>> incentives to switch toward more fuel-efficient vehicles.
>>
>> "It doesn't seem fair," said Paul Niedergang of Portland, that a
>> hybrid would be taxed as much as his Dodge pickup. "I just think the
>> gas tax needs to be updated."
>>
>> Lynda Williams, also of Portland, was not immediately sold on the idea
>> but said it was worth consideration.
>>
>> "We all have to be open-minded," she said. "Our current system just
>> isn't working."

>

Look for states and cities to increase taxes anyway they can. They are
all having problems due to the economic downturn. My city just passed a
5.5% increase on the water bill. Same old story, when times are good
they increase and expand service, when times get worse they just
increase the taxes instead of cutting back. Yesterday's do-gooder
program and public service all of a sudden becomes today's necessity.
One of the things that happens to often is some company presents a
package deal to the PTB that doesn't cost them anything and they share
the revenue with the company. Stoplight and speed cameras, GPS, buying
highways or bridges and turning them into toll roads etc.
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Old 08 Jan 2009, 07:34 am   #5 (permalink)
Siskuwihane
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Default Re: Some states want to punish fuel-efficient car drivers

On Jan 8, 7:09*am, Fat Moe <Fat...@BubbleWorld.Com> wrote:
> Route101 wrote:
> > Oregon has cheap ($54 for a car for 2 years) vehicle registrations and
> > no sales tax. However, we have higher income taxes (9%) and property
> > taxes (while our property values decreased, the property taxes went up
> > the maximum 3% again this year. Oregon also gives a $1,500 state income
> > tax credit for purchase of any hybrid car without sales quotas or model
> > limits. However, Oregonians are protective of their privacy and may
> > force it to a vote if proposed or enacted. I'm not going to have someone
> > stick a(nother) GPS in my '07 Camry Hybrid. DeFazio is my Rep. and I
> > usually like his actions, but I think they should be looking elsewhere
> > for revenues to fix roads. Maybe vehicle weights could be factored into
> > registrations, but that would be hard to do with interstate trucks,
> > unless states adopt similar systems, which they won't. Heavier vehicles
> > may do more wear. Also, with gas prices way back down (for now), adding
> > a few cents tax may not be so bad. But aren't road and bridge projects
> > supposed to be a big part of the next economic stimulus package? Frankly
> > I think miles driven is only marginally related to road wear. Seems like
> > another case where some people choose a conclusion or action then work
> > backwards to try to come up for a rationale for doing it - like not
> > letting us pump our own gas, the only state left now that NJ changed its
> > law.
> > .................................................. ................
> > January 20, 2009 - The End of an Error

>
> > "Tim Howard" <tim.how...@suddenlink.net> wrote in message
> >news:49658bbe$0$5474$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net ...
> >> Oregon looks at taxing mileage instead of gasoline
> >> By RYAN KOST, Associated Press Writer Ryan Kost, Associated Press
> >> Writer Sat Jan 3, 7:38 am ET

>
> >> PORTLAND, Ore. Oregon is among a growing number of states exploring
> >> ways to tax drivers based on the number of miles they drive instead of
> >> how much gas they use, even going so far as to install GPS monitoring
> >> devices in 300 vehicles. The idea first emerged nearly 10 years ago as
> >> Oregon lawmakers worried that fuel-efficient cars such as gas-electric
> >> hybrids could pose a threat to road upkeep, which is paid for largely
> >> with gasoline taxes.

>
> >> "I'm glad we're taking a look at it before the potholes get so big
> >> that we can't even get out of them," said Leroy Younglove, a Portland
> >> driver who participated in a recent pilot program.

>
> >> The proposal is not without critics, including drivers who are
> >> concerned about privacy and others who fear the tax could eliminate
> >> the financial incentive for buying efficient vehicles.

>
> >> But Oregon is ahead of the nation in exploring the concept, even
> >> though it will probably be years before any mileage tax is adopted.

>
> >> Congress is talking about it, too. A congressional commission has
> >> envisioned a system similar to the prototype Oregon tested in 2006-2007.

>
> >> The National Commission on Surface Transportation Infrastructure
> >> Financing is considering calling for higher gas taxes to keep
> >> highways, bridges and transit programs in good shape.

>
> >> But over the long term, commission members say, the nation should
> >> consider taxing mileage rather than gasoline as drivers use more
> >> fuel-efficient and electric vehicles.

>
> >> As cars burn less fuel, "the gas tax isn't going to fill the bill,"
> >> said Rep. Peter DeFazio of Oregon, a member of the House
> >> Transportation and Infrastructure Committee.

>
> >> The next Congress "could begin to set the stage, perhaps looking at
> >> some much more robust pilot programs, to begin the research, to work
> >> with manufacturers."

>
> >> Gov. Ted Kulongoski has included development money for the tax in his
> >> budget proposal, and interest is growing in a number of other states.

>
> >> Governors in Idaho and Rhode Island have considered systems that would
> >> require drivers to report their mileage when they register vehicles.

>
> >> In North Carolina last month, a panel suggested charging motorists a
> >> quarter-cent for every mile as a substitute for the gas tax.

>
> >> James Whitty, the Oregon Department of Transportation employee in
> >> charge of the state's effort, said he's also heard talk of mileage tax
> >> proposals in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, Colorado and Minnesota.

>
> >> "There is kind of a coalition that's naturally forming around this,"
> >> he said.

>
> >> Also fueling the search for alternatives is the political difficulty
> >> of raising gasoline taxes.

>
> >> The federal gas tax has not been raised since 1993, and nearly two
> >> dozen states have not changed their taxes since 1997, according to the
> >> American Road & Transportation Builders Association.

>
> >> In Oregon's pilot program, officials equipped 300 vehicles with GPS
> >> transponders that worked wirelessly with service station pumps,
> >> allowing drivers to pay their mileage tax just as they do their gas tax.

>
> >> Whitty said the test, which involved two gas stations in the Portland
> >> area, proved the idea could work.

>
> >> Though the GPS devices did not track the cars' locations in great
> >> detail, they could determine when a driver had left certain zones,
> >> such as the state of Oregon. They also kept track of the time the
> >> driving was done, so a premium could be charged for rush-hour mileage.

>
> >> The proposal envisions a gradual change, with manufacturers installing
> >> the technology in new vehicles because retrofitting old cars would be
> >> too expensive. Owners of older vehicles would continue to pay gasoline
> >> taxes.

>
> >> The difference in tax based on mileage or on gasoline would be small
> >> "pennies per transaction at the pump," Whitty said.

>
> >> But the mileage tax still faces several major obstacles.

>
> >> For one, Oregon accounts for only a small part of auto sales, so the
> >> state can't go it alone. A multistate or national system would be needed.

>
> >> Another concern is that such devices could threaten privacy. Whitty
> >> said he and his task force have assured people that the program does
> >> not track detailed movement and that driving history is not stored and
> >> cannot be accessed by law enforcement agencies.

>
> >> "I think most people will come to realize there is really no tracking
> >> issue and will continue to buy new cars," Whitty said, noting that
> >> many cell phones now come equipped with GPS, which has not deterred
> >> customers.

>
> >> Others are worried that a mileage tax would undermine years of
> >> incentives to switch toward more fuel-efficient vehicles.

>
> >> "It doesn't seem fair," said Paul Niedergang of Portland, that a
> >> hybrid would be taxed as much as his Dodge pickup. "I just think the
> >> gas tax needs to be updated."

>
> >> Lynda Williams, also of Portland, was not immediately sold on the idea
> >> but said it was worth consideration.

>
> >> "We all have to be open-minded," she said. "Our current system just
> >> isn't working."

>
> Look for states and cities to increase taxes anyway they can. *They are
> all having problems due to the economic downturn. *My city just passed a
> 5.5% increase on the water bill. *<snip>


Our town was urged to conserve water during the last "drought". People
cut back and the next thing you know the municipal authority raised
rates because "so may people were conserving water that revenue was
down". Our reward for conserving was higher costs. Last summer they
again urged us to conserve water because supplies were down due to
lack of rain, I don't know of too many who complied.
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Old 08 Jan 2009, 11:27 am   #6 (permalink)
Michelle Steiner
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Default Re: Some states want to punish fuel-efficient car drivers

In article <--qdnSAXCefVd_jUnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@sedona.net>,
"Michael Pardee" <null@null.org> wrote:

> And of course my home state of Arizona never has any odd ideas ;-)


Evan Meacham. I'd put a smiley, but he wasn't anything to smile about.
Oh, what the heck

-- Michelle

--
It's now time for healing, and for fixing the damage the GOP did to America.
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Old 08 Jan 2009, 11:47 am   #7 (permalink)
mrdarrett@gmail.com
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Default Re: Some states want to punish fuel-efficient car drivers

Tim Howard wrote:
> Oregon looks at taxing mileage instead of gasoline
> By RYAN KOST, Associated Press Writer Ryan Kost, Associated Press Writer
> � Sat Jan 3, 7:38 am ET
>
>
> PORTLAND, Ore. � Oregon is among a growing number of states exploring
> ways to tax drivers based on the number of miles they drive instead of
> how much gas they use, even going so far as to install GPS monitoring
> devices in 300 vehicles. The idea first emerged nearly 10 years ago as
> Oregon lawmakers worried that fuel-efficient cars such as gas-electric
> hybrids could pose a threat to road upkeep, which is paid for largely
> with gasoline taxes.
>
> "I'm glad we're taking a look at it before the potholes get so big that
> we can't even get out of them," said Leroy Younglove, a Portland driver
> who participated in a recent pilot program.
>
> The proposal is not without critics, including drivers who are concerned
> about privacy and others who fear the tax could eliminate the financial
> incentive for buying efficient vehicles.
>
> But Oregon is ahead of the nation in exploring the concept, even though
> it will probably be years before any mileage tax is adopted.
>
> Congress is talking about it, too. A congressional commission has
> envisioned a system similar to the prototype Oregon tested in 2006-2007.
>
> The National Commission on Surface Transportation Infrastructure
> Financing is considering calling for higher gas taxes to keep highways,
> bridges and transit programs in good shape.
>
> But over the long term, commission members say, the nation should
> consider taxing mileage rather than gasoline as drivers use more
> fuel-efficient and electric vehicles.
>
> As cars burn less fuel, "the gas tax isn't going to fill the bill," said
> Rep. Peter DeFazio of Oregon, a member of the House Transportation and
> Infrastructure Committee.
>
> The next Congress "could begin to set the stage, perhaps looking at some
> much more robust pilot programs, to begin the research, to work with
> manufacturers."
>
> Gov. Ted Kulongoski has included development money for the tax in his
> budget proposal, and interest is growing in a number of other states.
>
> Governors in Idaho and Rhode Island have considered systems that would
> require drivers to report their mileage when they register vehicles.
>
> In North Carolina last month, a panel suggested charging motorists a
> quarter-cent for every mile as a substitute for the gas tax.
>
> James Whitty, the Oregon Department of Transportation employee in charge
> of the state's effort, said he's also heard talk of mileage tax
> proposals in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, Colorado and Minnesota.
>
> "There is kind of a coalition that's naturally forming around this," he
> said.
>
> Also fueling the search for alternatives is the political difficulty of
> raising gasoline taxes.
>
> The federal gas tax has not been raised since 1993, and nearly two dozen
> states have not changed their taxes since 1997, according to the
> American Road & Transportation Builders Association.
>
> In Oregon's pilot program, officials equipped 300 vehicles with GPS
> transponders that worked wirelessly with service station pumps, allowing
> drivers to pay their mileage tax just as they do their gas tax.
>
> Whitty said the test, which involved two gas stations in the Portland
> area, proved the idea could work.
>
> Though the GPS devices did not track the cars' locations in great
> detail, they could determine when a driver had left certain zones, such
> as the state of Oregon. They also kept track of the time the driving was
> done, so a premium could be charged for rush-hour mileage.
>



GPS... that's just overkill. Just double the fuel tax if they're so
worried. What's next - a GPS for every bicycle? A personal GPS for
every time you use the bus?

Silly.

Michael
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Old 08 Jan 2009, 12:16 pm   #8 (permalink)
fred
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Default Re: Some states want to punish fuel-efficient car drivers

Tim Howard <tim.howard@suddenlink.net> wrote in
news:49658bbe$0$5474$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net:

> Oregon looks at taxing mileage instead of gasoline
> By RYAN KOST, Associated Press Writer Ryan Kost, Associated Press Writer
> Sat Jan 3, 7:38 am ET
>
>
> PORTLAND, Ore. Oregon is among a growing number of states exploring
> ways to tax drivers based on the number of miles they drive instead of
> how much gas they use, even going so far as to install GPS monitoring
> devices in 300 vehicles. The idea first emerged nearly 10 years ago as
> Oregon lawmakers worried that fuel-efficient cars such as gas-electric
> hybrids could pose a threat to road upkeep, which is paid for largely
> with gasoline taxes.
>
> "I'm glad we're taking a look at it before the potholes get so big that
> we can't even get out of them," said Leroy Younglove, a Portland driver
> who participated in a recent pilot program.
>
> The proposal is not without critics, including drivers who are concerned
> about privacy and others who fear the tax could eliminate the financial
> incentive for buying efficient vehicles.
>
> But Oregon is ahead of the nation in exploring the concept, even though
> it will probably be years before any mileage tax is adopted.
>
> Congress is talking about it, too. A congressional commission has
> envisioned a system similar to the prototype Oregon tested in 2006-2007.
>
> The National Commission on Surface Transportation Infrastructure
> Financing is considering calling for higher gas taxes to keep highways,
> bridges and transit programs in good shape.
>
> But over the long term, commission members say, the nation should
> consider taxing mileage rather than gasoline as drivers use more
> fuel-efficient and electric vehicles.
>
> As cars burn less fuel, "the gas tax isn't going to fill the bill," said
> Rep. Peter DeFazio of Oregon, a member of the House Transportation and
> Infrastructure Committee.
>
> The next Congress "could begin to set the stage, perhaps looking at some
> much more robust pilot programs, to begin the research, to work with
> manufacturers."
>
> Gov. Ted Kulongoski has included development money for the tax in his
> budget proposal, and interest is growing in a number of other states.
>
> Governors in Idaho and Rhode Island have considered systems that would
> require drivers to report their mileage when they register vehicles.
>
> In North Carolina last month, a panel suggested charging motorists a
> quarter-cent for every mile as a substitute for the gas tax.
>
> James Whitty, the Oregon Department of Transportation employee in charge
> of the state's effort, said he's also heard talk of mileage tax
> proposals in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, Colorado and Minnesota.
>
> "There is kind of a coalition that's naturally forming around this," he
> said.
>
> Also fueling the search for alternatives is the political difficulty of
> raising gasoline taxes.
>
> The federal gas tax has not been raised since 1993, and nearly two dozen
> states have not changed their taxes since 1997, according to the
> American Road & Transportation Builders Association.
>
> In Oregon's pilot program, officials equipped 300 vehicles with GPS
> transponders that worked wirelessly with service station pumps, allowing
> drivers to pay their mileage tax just as they do their gas tax.
>
> Whitty said the test, which involved two gas stations in the Portland
> area, proved the idea could work.
>
> Though the GPS devices did not track the cars' locations in great
> detail, they could determine when a driver had left certain zones, such
> as the state of Oregon. They also kept track of the time the driving was
> done, so a premium could be charged for rush-hour mileage.
>
> The proposal envisions a gradual change, with manufacturers installing
> the technology in new vehicles because retrofitting old cars would be
> too expensive. Owners of older vehicles would continue to pay gasoline
> taxes.
>
> The difference in tax based on mileage or on gasoline would be small
> "pennies per transaction at the pump," Whitty said.
>
> But the mileage tax still faces several major obstacles.
>
> For one, Oregon accounts for only a small part of auto sales, so the
> state can't go it alone. A multistate or national system would be
> needed.
>
> Another concern is that such devices could threaten privacy. Whitty said
> he and his task force have assured people that the program does not
> track detailed movement and that driving history is not stored and
> cannot be accessed by law enforcement agencies.
>
> "I think most people will come to realize there is really no tracking
> issue and will continue to buy new cars," Whitty said, noting that many
> cell phones now come equipped with GPS, which has not deterred
> customers.
>
> Others are worried that a mileage tax would undermine years of
> incentives to switch toward more fuel-efficient vehicles.
>
> "It doesn't seem fair," said Paul Niedergang of Portland, that a hybrid
> would be taxed as much as his Dodge pickup. "I just think the gas tax
> needs to be updated."
>
> Lynda Williams, also of Portland, was not immediately sold on the idea
> but said it was worth consideration.
>
> "We all have to be open-minded," she said. "Our current system just
> isn't working."


Well then I guess you should replace yourselves with someone competent to
do the job and/or get the Feds to pay their fair share. Both are the
problem here. Nothing else.

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Old 08 Jan 2009, 06:03 pm   #9 (permalink)
Gordon McGrew
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Default Re: Some states want to punish fuel-efficient car drivers

On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 06:09:08 -0600, Fat Moe <FatMoe@BubbleWorld.Com>
wrote:


> One of the things that happens to often is some company presents a
>package deal to the PTB that doesn't cost them anything and they share
>the revenue with the company. Stoplight and speed cameras, GPS, buying
>highways or bridges and turning them into toll roads etc.


That was the first thing I thought of when I heard this proposal.
Someone has to do all the programming and logistics on this and I
can't see the state hiring a programmer.

This is a total bullshit proposal. If people are burning less gas per
dollar of needed road work, then raise the gas tax. People driving
hybrids will pay the same as they paid pre-hybrid and people driving
gas guzzlers can suck it up or get with the program. If plug-ins
become a factor, they should have an input ammeter which could be
accessed a road tax.

BTW, I don't recall them lowering the gas tax when people started
driving land barges.
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Old 08 Jan 2009, 07:16 pm   #10 (permalink)
Was Istoben
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  • Posts: n/a
  • User Status:


Default Re: Some states want to punish fuel-efficient car drivers


"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:ba4dm4pvsohhpvsali80uvm12isldf52ui@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 06:09:08 -0600, Fat Moe <FatMoe@BubbleWorld.Com>
> wrote:
>
>
>> One of the things that happens to often is some company presents a
>>package deal to the PTB that doesn't cost them anything and they share
>>the revenue with the company. Stoplight and speed cameras, GPS, buying
>>highways or bridges and turning them into toll roads etc.

>
> That was the first thing I thought of when I heard this proposal.
> Someone has to do all the programming and logistics on this and I
> can't see the state hiring a programmer.
>
> This is a total bullshit proposal. If people are burning less gas per
> dollar of needed road work, then raise the gas tax. People driving
> hybrids will pay the same as they paid pre-hybrid and people driving
> gas guzzlers can suck it up or get with the program. If plug-ins
> become a factor, they should have an input ammeter which could be
> accessed a road tax.
>
> BTW, I don't recall them lowering the gas tax when people started
> driving land barges.


Them is us.

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