camry 1995 4-cyl did not start this morning

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 15 Jan 2009, 10:42 pm   #1 (permalink)
Pszemol
Guest
  • Posts: n/a
  • User Status:


Default camry 1995 4-cyl did not start this morning

Hi, my old trusty 1995 with 250k on the odometer failed
me this morning and I could not start the engine...

First time had to take a different car to work :-(

Admit it, it was brutal cold this morning in Chicago area,
-4F and it will be even colder tomorrow morning...

The car was cranking pretty well, battery was strong, but
no luck with engine start. No symptoms yesterday evening.
Car is driven every day with overall no problems til today.

Took the battery home this afternoon to recharge after
too many attempts this morning. Put warmed up and
charged battery back into the car but still no luck...
Cranking strong, from time to time I hear a single boom like
I have a single ignition sometimes, but no engine action...

How do I troubleshoot the issue?
Anything specific to cold-weather to check (besides battery)?
  Reply With Quote
Old 15 Jan 2009, 11:26 pm   #2 (permalink)
Winston
Guest
  • Posts: n/a
  • User Status:


Default Re: camry 1995 4-cyl did not start this morning

Pszemol wrote:
> Hi, my old trusty 1995 with 250k on the odometer failed
> me this morning and I could not start the engine...
>

(...)
>
> How do I troubleshoot the issue?
> Anything specific to cold-weather to check (besides battery)?


Have you plugged in your On Board Diagnostic code reader yet?
What did it indicate?

You could snap on an inductive timing light and
determine if you are getting spark to each cylinder.

It would be educational to measure current to
the fuel pump and see if that is in spec.

Is it time to de-ice the fuel?

If there is no code and you are getting spark, the
fuel lines aren't blocked with a slug of frozen water
and your fuel pump appears to be working correctly,
you might be running 'over rich'. Notice I didn't
say 'flooded'. That would be politically incorrect
when referring to a fuel injected engine. Both conditions
are handled the same way:

WITHOUT PUMPING THE ACCELERATOR (sorry for shouting but it
is critical that you not make the situation worse), hold
the accelerator to the floor and turn the key. This will
lean out the mixture and get you going again, if this is
the only issue you face. Release the pedal as soon as the
car starts.

--Winston
  Reply With Quote
Old 15 Jan 2009, 11:46 pm   #3 (permalink)
Pszemol
Guest
  • Posts: n/a
  • User Status:


Default Re: camry 1995 4-cyl did not start this morning

"Winston" <Winston@bigbrother.net> wrote in message
news:gkp5qi0626@news3.newsguy.com...
> Have you plugged in your On Board Diagnostic code reader yet?
> What did it indicate?


I do not have one...

> You could snap on an inductive timing light and
> determine if you are getting spark to each cylinder.


OK, I will do it.

> It would be educational to measure current to
> the fuel pump and see if that is in spec.


How much current should it be?

> Is it time to de-ice the fuel?


It will probably be hard to de-ice the fuel at -10F outside...

> If there is no code and you are getting spark, the
> fuel lines aren't blocked with a slug of frozen water
> and your fuel pump appears to be working correctly,
> you might be running 'over rich'. Notice I didn't
> say 'flooded'. That would be politically incorrect
> when referring to a fuel injected engine. Both conditions
> are handled the same way:
>
> WITHOUT PUMPING THE ACCELERATOR (sorry for shouting but it
> is critical that you not make the situation worse), hold
> the accelerator to the floor and turn the key. This will
> lean out the mixture and get you going again, if this is
> the only issue you face. Release the pedal as soon as the
> car starts.


I am affraid it is something worse than that...
How would it become over rich over night?
Car worked just fine yesterday...
The only difference is that we got Arctic weather blown
from Alberta to Chicago. Out of your suggestions the
frozen fuel lines sound interesting as an option, but not
sure what to do with them - have to google it up ;-)

  Reply With Quote
Old 16 Jan 2009, 12:22 am   #4 (permalink)
Winston
Guest
  • Posts: n/a
  • User Status:


Default Re: camry 1995 4-cyl did not start this morning

Pszemol wrote:
> "Winston" <Winston@bigbrother.net> wrote in message
> news:gkp5qi0626@news3.newsguy.com...
>> Have you plugged in your On Board Diagnostic code reader yet?
>> What did it indicate?

>
> I do not have one...


They aren't expensive:
http://search.harborfreight.com/cpis...=obd&Submit=Go

Mine helped me fix three different cars over the years.

>> You could snap on an inductive timing light and
>> determine if you are getting spark to each cylinder.

>
> OK, I will do it.
>
>> It would be educational to measure current to
>> the fuel pump and see if that is in spec.

>
> How much current should it be?


Check your official Toyota Shop Manual, from Toyota.
Perhaps the local library?

Clymer, Chilton, etc. Need Not Apply.
Even Haynes isn't what it used to be.
>
>> Is it time to de-ice the fuel?

>
> It will probably be hard to de-ice the fuel at -10F outside...


I understand that there are 'fuel dryer' chems one can toss into
the tank to fix that. I have no experience personally so
I defer to Cecil Adams:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...ale-so-quickly

>> If there is no code and you are getting spark, the
>> fuel lines aren't blocked with a slug of frozen water
>> and your fuel pump appears to be working correctly,
>> you might be running 'over rich'. Notice I didn't
>> say 'flooded'. That would be politically incorrect
>> when referring to a fuel injected engine. Both conditions
>> are handled the same way:
>>
>> WITHOUT PUMPING THE ACCELERATOR (sorry for shouting but it
>> is critical that you not make the situation worse), hold
>> the accelerator to the floor and turn the key. This will
>> lean out the mixture and get you going again, if this is
>> the only issue you face. Release the pedal as soon as the
>> car starts.

>
> I am affraid it is something worse than that...
> How would it become over rich over night?


In my case, it turned out to be a prank pulled by a co-worker.
Broke into my car and flooded the engine by pumping the accelerator.
Psychopaths will be psychopaths, as they say.

In a friend's case, stalling was caused by a fillup with bad gas.
(Never pull into a station that has a delivery truck on site.
The turbulence from filling the underground tank stirs up
lots of yuckys that you don't want to pump into your tank!)

> Car worked just fine yesterday...


When's the last time you filled up? Late yesterday?

> The only difference is that we got Arctic weather blown
> from Alberta to Chicago. Out of your suggestions the
> frozen fuel lines sound interesting as an option, but not
> sure what to do with them - have to google it up ;-)


Sounds like your car would enjoy 12 hours in a 70
garage!

--Winston
  Reply With Quote
Old 16 Jan 2009, 12:45 am   #5 (permalink)
johngdole@hotmail.com
Guest
  • Posts: n/a
  • User Status:


Default Re: camry 1995 4-cyl did not start this morning

Yeah, fuel line icing would be a likely suspect. Not sure how you can
check this -- if the fuel pulsation damper on the fuel rail pulsates?
Smell gas as you crank? etc.

I don't think the 1995 has OBD-II. It's a 96+ thing? If so use the
following from Autozone's free repair guide: http://www.autozone.com/shopping/repairGuide.htm

Under "driveability and emissions controls" -> "trouble codes" ->
"reading codes"

Let's hope you don't get something like:

14 Ignition Signal
IGF signal from igniter is not input to ECU for 4-5 consecutive
ignitions Open or short in IGF or IGT circuit from igniter to ECU.



On Jan 15, 8:42*pm, "Pszemol" <Psze...@PolBox.com> wrote:
> Hi, my old trusty 1995 with 250k on the odometer failed
> me this morning and I could not start the engine...
>
> First time had to take a different car to work :-(
>
> Admit it, it was brutal cold this morning in Chicago area,
> -4F and it will be even colder tomorrow morning...
>
> The car was cranking pretty well, battery was strong, but
> no luck with engine start. No symptoms yesterday evening.
> Car is driven every day with overall no problems til today.
>
> Took the battery home this afternoon to recharge after
> too many attempts this morning. Put warmed up and
> charged battery back into the car but still no luck...
> Cranking strong, from time to time I hear a single boom like
> I have a single ignition sometimes, but no engine action...
>
> How do I troubleshoot the issue?
> Anything specific to cold-weather to check (besides battery)?


  Reply With Quote
Old 16 Jan 2009, 12:49 am   #6 (permalink)
johngdole@hotmail.com
Guest
  • Posts: n/a
  • User Status:


Default Re: camry 1995 4-cyl did not start this morning

As for verifying fuel pump operation, from Autozone's free repair
guide:

"EXCEPT 1MZ-FE ENGINES

Since the fuel pump is concealed within the tank, it is difficult to
test directly at the pump. It is possible to test the pump from under
the hood, listening for pump function and feeling the fuel delivery
lines for the build-up of pressure.

1. Turn the ignition switch ON, but do not start the engine.
2. Using a jumper wire, short both terminals of the fuel pump check
connector. The check connector is located near the air cleaner.
Connect the terminals labeled FP and +B. Special service connector
09843-18020 or equivalent can be used to perform this test.
3. Check that there is pressure in the hose running to the delivery
pipe. You should hear fuel pressure noise and possibly hear the pump
at the rear of the car.
4. If the fuel pump failed to function, it may indicate a faulty
pump, but before removing the fuel pump, check the following items
within the pump system:
1. All fusible links
2. All fuses (EFI-15A and IGN-7.5A)
3. AM2-30A
4. EFI main relay
5. Fuel pump
6. Circuit opening relay
7. All wiring connections and grounds.
5. Turn the ignition to OFF.
6. Remove the jumper wire.
7. If there is no fuel pump pressure and an inspection of the
related electrical components does not reveal a malfunction, replace
the fuel pump."

  Reply With Quote
Old 16 Jan 2009, 01:01 am   #7 (permalink)
Winston
Guest
  • Posts: n/a
  • User Status:


Default Re: camry 1995 4-cyl did not start this morning

johngdole@hotmail.com wrote:
> Yeah, fuel line icing would be a likely suspect. Not sure how you can
> check this -- if the fuel pulsation damper on the fuel rail pulsates?
> Smell gas as you crank? etc.
>
> I don't think the 1995 has OBD-II. It's a 96+ thing?


The '95 was fully compliant to OBD-II it says here:
http://www.obdii.com/connector.html


--Winston
  Reply With Quote
Old 16 Jan 2009, 07:04 am   #8 (permalink)
Pszemol
Guest
  • Posts: n/a
  • User Status:


Default Re: camry 1995 4-cyl did not start this morning

<johngdole@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6d2ab52f-13f1-4131-8922-64db17165db4@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
> As for verifying fuel pump operation, from Autozone's free repair
> guide:


I can hear some quiet buzzing noise from the back when
key is in START position and it continues for a short while
after the key is moved out from START after unsuccessful
ignition. That would be a sign of fuel pump working...

As for the pressure in the line - not sure which cable to feel.

  Reply With Quote
Old 16 Jan 2009, 07:07 am   #9 (permalink)
Pszemol
Guest
  • Posts: n/a
  • User Status:


Default Re: camry 1995 4-cyl did not start this morning

"Winston" <Winston@bigbrother.net> wrote in message
news:gkp93m0e84@news7.newsguy.com...
> I understand that there are 'fuel dryer' chems one can toss into
> the tank to fix that. I have no experience personally so
> I defer to Cecil Adams:
> http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...ale-so-quickly


OK, thanks.

> In my case, it turned out to be a prank pulled by a co-worker.
> Broke into my car and flooded the engine by pumping the accelerator.
> Psychopaths will be psychopaths, as they say.


That would be probably a temporary thing until fuel evaporates?

> In a friend's case, stalling was caused by a fillup with bad gas.
> (Never pull into a station that has a delivery truck on site.
> The turbulence from filling the underground tank stirs up
> lots of yuckys that you don't want to pump into your tank!)
>
>> Car worked just fine yesterday...

>
> When's the last time you filled up? Late yesterday?


No, I refueled couple days before.

>> The only difference is that we got Arctic weather blown
>> from Alberta to Chicago. Out of your suggestions the
>> frozen fuel lines sound interesting as an option, but not
>> sure what to do with them - have to google it up ;-)

>
> Sounds like your car would enjoy 12 hours in a 70
> garage!


:-)

  Reply With Quote
Old 16 Jan 2009, 07:39 am   #10 (permalink)
Pszemol
Guest
  • Posts: n/a
  • User Status:


Default Re: camry 1995 4-cyl did not start this morning

<johngdole@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b9199e67-195e-4e58-94bb-f7b923bd398d@p2g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Yeah, fuel line icing would be a likely suspect. Not sure how you can
> check this -- if the fuel pulsation damper on the fuel rail pulsates?
> Smell gas as you crank? etc.
>
> I don't think the 1995 has OBD-II. It's a 96+ thing? If so use the
> following from Autozone's free repair guide:
> http://www.autozone.com/shopping/repairGuide.htm
>
> Under "driveability and emissions controls" -> "trouble codes" ->
> "reading codes"
>
> Let's hope you don't get something like:
>
> 14 Ignition Signal
> IGF signal from igniter is not input to ECU for 4-5 consecutive
> ignitions Open or short in IGF or IGT circuit from igniter to ECU.


There is a code reading method with shoring two places in the
DIAGNOSTIC connector and looking at the CHECK ENGINE light.

Unfortunatelly when I read this code I see no code stored.
Light is blinking ON and OFF in equal time intervals, indicating
test mode with no code stored.

The battery was whole night in home, charging...
So this morning I made maybe 4-5 attempts of starting
and then turned engine into diag mode but no code there.

I have also confirmed the sound from the back (fuel pump)
goes off the same time I hear a relay click on the right side
of the dashboard. Maybe a second or so after the key is
moved out of the START position. So the pump operates.
The question is if there is fuel pressure or not - not know
how to check it. So the other thing could be the spark itself.

Is it possible my timing belt cracked this morning when
I tried to start the car when the air was -4F ? I hope not....

  Reply With Quote

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:50 am.

Attribution:
Autoblog
Powered by Yahoo Answers



ToyotaLexusForum.com is an unofficial community for car enthusiasts. ToyotaLexusForum.com is not affiliated with Toyota Motor Corporation in any way.
Toyota Motor Corporation does not sponsor, support, or endorse ToyotaLexusForum.com in any way.
Copyright/trademark/sales mark infringements are not intended or implied.