Your Answer to Saving on Fuel Costs - HHO Kit

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Old 06 Mar 2009, 04:29 am   #1 (permalink)
jenneylist@gmail.com
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Default Your Answer to Saving on Fuel Costs - HHO Kit

Your Answer to Saving on Fuel Costů
http://automotiveguides.googlepages....or_automobiles

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Old 10 Mar 2009, 03:32 pm   #2 (permalink)
mrdarrett@gmail.com
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Default Re: Your Answer to Saving on Fuel Costs - HHO Kit

On Mar 6, 3:29*am, jenneyl...@gmail.com wrote:
> Your Answer to Saving on Fuel Costůhttp://automotiveguides.googlepages....tor_kits_for_a...



But wait! Order now and receive a FREE Nanotech Zinc Oxide catalyst!

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Old 12 Mar 2009, 05:39 pm   #3 (permalink)
Desertphile
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Default Re: Your Answer to Saving on Fuel Costs - HHO Kit

On Mar 6, 3:29 am, jenneyl...@gmail.com wrote:

> Your Answer to Saving on Fuel Cos


The "Run Car on Water" Scam Busted

Far too many people are not informed enough to avoid being defrauded
and "ripped off" when it comes to devices they believe to be the
result of technological advances in science. Technologies advance so
fast and some times in such unexpected ways that few non-scientists
can know if a device being sold can in fact perform as its sellers
claim it does.

In the past two years a "water as fuel" scam has been spreading over
the internet, and far too few people have the science background to
know it is a scam. This is not because they are "stupid," or "idiots:"
it is just that ignorance is the default human condition, and one has
to seek out and acquire specialized knowledge to know if a deal that
sounds too good to be true really is true.

The fraudulent devices go by many names, and their sellers and
promoters make many claims about the devices. Some call them "HHO
cells;" some call them "Brown's gas cells." The phrases and claims
vary, but the fraudulent devices being sold are pretty much the same.

The devices claim to produce enough hydrogen, using electricity to
break the chemical bonds in water, to improve an automobile's miles-
per-gallon consumption of fuel. Usually the sellers claim that the
electricity used to break the chemical bonds of water, therefore
releasing oxygen and hydrogen gasses, is "free" in that the
automobile's alternator powers the system. None of these claims are
true.

In fact, these devices waste gasoline when installed in automobiles,
as they increase the time the automobile's alternator must energize
its field coil, thus adding additional friction to the engine. The
amount of hydrogen produced, when converted into energy via
combustion, is always, without exception, less than the amount of
energy the gasoline used to provide that additional electrical energy.
It always, without exception, requires more energy to break the
chemical bonds of water than the gases produce will provide to the
automobile's engine.

One can calculate how much power, in Watts, an automobile requires to
run at a given speed. P = kg * V * DV * / Dt where the weight of the
vehicle in kilograms is multiplied by the speed (V) in meters per
second (DV) divided by the drag in distance over time (Dt).

For one example, to maintain my Toyota pickup at 55 miles per hour,
the vehicle must consume 18,146 Watts (24.35 horsepower).

Many of the scam devices claim a fuel efficiency (in miles per gallon)
increase of around 30%. That means the device must produce enough
hydrogen to provide 5,444 additional watts to the engine--- in
addition to the gasoline consumed. That means, if the HHO device
converted the energy from the alternator into hydrogen at 100%
efficiency (which is impossible), and that hydrogen provided 100%
energy efficiency to the engine (also an impossibility), the HHO
device must consume 394 Amps to provide enough hydrogen and oxygen to
produce enough energy to increase MPG by 30%.

And yet most of the HHO devices draw at most 9 Amps, and their
efficiency at converting that 9 Amps into hydrogen is a small fraction
of 100%.

Not only does the math prove the devices are worthless, but actual
testing prove they are worthless. The United States Environment
Protection Agency tested nearly two dozen HHO devices, and every
single one tested were shown to be worthless.

More to the point, if these devices actually performed as their
sellers' claim, every automobile manufacturer would have long ago made
them standard equipment: they would already be in our automobiles, and
in every new automobile made. The USA government has ordered car
manufacturers to build more fuel-efficient automobiles, and if these
HHO devices actually worked, that requirement would be easily met with
a tiny fraction of the cost auto manufacturers are currently spending
working to meet that requirement.

The only "evidence" that promoters of the HHO "water car" / "water as
fuel" scam can provide is anonymous testimonials which they write to
sell the worthless devices. Worse yet, many of these devices are sold
in pyramid scams, called "multi-level marketing," or "network
marketing," which defrauds not only the victim who buys them, but also
the sellers who believe the devices work as claimed. That is, many
sellers have been stuck with hundreds of these useless devices, and
they cannot find enough suckers to buy them.

The bottom line is:

1) these HHO devices cannot convert enough electrical energy into
mechanical energy to perform as the sellers claim;

2) all tests of these devices show them to be worthless;

3) the laws of physics mandate a loss of energy, every time, without
exception, when HHO devices are used;

4) not all of the sellers and promoters of the scam know it's a scam,
until they put one in their own cars and discover it's a scam;

5) if they worked, new cars would already have them installed;

6) and finally, something that is clearly too good to be true almost
always is.


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Old 13 Mar 2009, 09:45 pm   #4 (permalink)
SMS
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Default Re: Your Answer to Saving on Fuel Costs - HHO Kit

Desertphile wrote:
> On Mar 6, 3:29 am, jenneyl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Your Answer to Saving on Fuel Cos

>
> The "Run Car on Water" Scam Busted
>
> Far too many people are not informed enough to avoid being defrauded
> and "ripped off" when it comes to devices they believe to be the
> result of technological advances in science.


Nice, but I don't think anyone believed these scams.
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Old 13 Mar 2009, 10:33 pm   #5 (permalink)
mrdarrett@gmail.com
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Default Re: Your Answer to Saving on Fuel Costs - HHO Kit

On Mar 12, 2:39*pm, Desertphile <Desertph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 6, 3:29 am, jenneyl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Your Answer to Saving on Fuel Cos

>
> The "Run Car on Water" Scam Busted
>
> Far too many people are not informed enough to avoid being defrauded
> and "ripped off" when it comes to devices they believe to be the
> result of technological advances in science. Technologies advance so
> fast and some times in such unexpected ways that few non-scientists
> can know if a device being sold can in fact perform as its sellers
> claim it does.
>
> In the past two years a "water as fuel" scam has been spreading over
> the internet, and far too few people have the science background to
> know it is a scam. This is not because they are "stupid," or "idiots:"
> it is just that ignorance is the default human condition, and one has
> to seek out and acquire specialized knowledge to know if a deal that
> sounds too good to be true really is true.
>
> The fraudulent devices go by many names, and their sellers and
> promoters make many claims about the devices. Some call them "HHO
> cells;" some call them "Brown's gas cells." The phrases and claims
> vary, but the fraudulent devices being sold are pretty much the same.
>
> The devices claim to produce enough hydrogen, using electricity to
> break the chemical bonds in water, to improve an automobile's miles-
> per-gallon consumption of fuel. Usually the sellers claim that the
> electricity used to break the chemical bonds of water, therefore
> releasing oxygen and hydrogen gasses, is "free" in that the
> automobile's alternator powers the system. None of these claims are
> true.
>
> In fact, these devices waste gasoline when installed in automobiles,
> as they increase the time the automobile's alternator must energize
> its field coil, thus adding additional friction to the engine. The
> amount of hydrogen produced, when converted into energy via
> combustion, is always, without exception, less than the amount of
> energy the gasoline used to provide that additional electrical energy.
> It always, without exception, requires more energy to break the
> chemical bonds of water than the gases produce will provide to the
> automobile's engine.
>
> One can calculate how much power, in Watts, an automobile requires to
> run at a given speed. P = kg * V * DV * / Dt where the weight of the
> vehicle in kilograms is multiplied by the speed (V) in meters per
> second (DV) divided by the drag in distance over time (Dt).
>
> For one example, to maintain my Toyota pickup at 55 miles per hour,
> the vehicle must consume 18,146 Watts (24.35 horsepower).
>
> Many of the scam devices claim a fuel efficiency (in miles per gallon)
> increase of around 30%. That means the device must produce enough
> hydrogen to provide 5,444 additional watts to the engine--- in
> addition to the gasoline consumed. That means, if the HHO device
> converted the energy from the alternator into hydrogen at 100%
> efficiency (which is impossible), and that hydrogen provided 100%
> energy efficiency to the engine (also an impossibility), the HHO
> device must consume 394 Amps to provide enough hydrogen and oxygen to
> produce enough energy to increase MPG by 30%.
>
> And yet most of the HHO devices draw at most 9 Amps, and their
> efficiency at converting that 9 Amps into hydrogen is a small fraction
> of 100%.
>
> Not only does the math prove the devices are worthless, but actual
> testing prove they are worthless. The United States Environment
> Protection Agency tested nearly two dozen HHO devices, and every
> single one tested were shown to be worthless.
>
> More to the point, if these devices actually performed as their
> sellers' claim, every automobile manufacturer would have long ago made
> them standard equipment: they would already be in our automobiles, and
> in every new automobile made. The USA government has ordered car
> manufacturers to build more fuel-efficient automobiles, and if these
> HHO devices actually worked, that requirement would be easily met with
> a tiny fraction of the cost auto manufacturers are currently spending
> working to meet that requirement.
>
> The only "evidence" that promoters of the HHO "water car" / "water as
> fuel" scam can provide is anonymous testimonials which they write to
> sell the worthless devices. Worse yet, many of these devices are sold
> in pyramid scams, called "multi-level marketing," or "network
> marketing," which defrauds not only the victim who buys them, but also
> the sellers who believe the devices work as claimed. That is, many
> sellers have been stuck with hundreds of these useless devices, and
> they cannot find enough suckers to buy them.
>
> The bottom line is:
>
> 1) these HHO devices cannot convert enough electrical energy into
> mechanical energy to perform as the sellers claim;
>
> 2) all tests of these devices show them to be worthless;
>
> 3) the laws of physics mandate a loss of energy, every time, without
> exception, when HHO devices are used;
>
> 4) not all of the sellers and promoters of the scam know it's a scam,
> until they put one in their own cars and discover it's a scam;
>
> 5) if they worked, new cars would already have them installed;
>
> 6) and finally, something that is clearly too good to be true almost
> always is.




Very nice explanation.

About that equation to maintain your truck at 55 mph: shouldn't
velocity be raised to the third power, as in here?

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/DragPower.html

Thanks,

Michael
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Old 14 Mar 2009, 01:35 am   #6 (permalink)
mrdarrett@gmail.com
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  • Posts: n/a
  • User Status:


Default Re: Your Answer to Saving on Fuel Costs - HHO Kit

On Mar 13, 7:33*pm, mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Mar 12, 2:39*pm, Desertphile <Desertph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 6, 3:29 am, jenneyl...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> > > Your Answer to Saving on Fuel Cos

>
> > The "Run Car on Water" Scam Busted

>
> > Far too many people are not informed enough to avoid being defrauded
> > and "ripped off" when it comes to devices they believe to be the
> > result of technological advances in science. Technologies advance so
> > fast and some times in such unexpected ways that few non-scientists
> > can know if a device being sold can in fact perform as its sellers
> > claim it does.

>
> > In the past two years a "water as fuel" scam has been spreading over
> > the internet, and far too few people have the science background to
> > know it is a scam. This is not because they are "stupid," or "idiots:"
> > it is just that ignorance is the default human condition, and one has
> > to seek out and acquire specialized knowledge to know if a deal that
> > sounds too good to be true really is true.

>
> > The fraudulent devices go by many names, and their sellers and
> > promoters make many claims about the devices. Some call them "HHO
> > cells;" some call them "Brown's gas cells." The phrases and claims
> > vary, but the fraudulent devices being sold are pretty much the same.

>
> > The devices claim to produce enough hydrogen, using electricity to
> > break the chemical bonds in water, to improve an automobile's miles-
> > per-gallon consumption of fuel. Usually the sellers claim that the
> > electricity used to break the chemical bonds of water, therefore
> > releasing oxygen and hydrogen gasses, is "free" in that the
> > automobile's alternator powers the system. None of these claims are
> > true.

>
> > In fact, these devices waste gasoline when installed in automobiles,
> > as they increase the time the automobile's alternator must energize
> > its field coil, thus adding additional friction to the engine. The
> > amount of hydrogen produced, when converted into energy via
> > combustion, is always, without exception, less than the amount of
> > energy the gasoline used to provide that additional electrical energy.
> > It always, without exception, requires more energy to break the
> > chemical bonds of water than the gases produce will provide to the
> > automobile's engine.

>
> > One can calculate how much power, in Watts, an automobile requires to
> > run at a given speed. P = kg * V * DV * / Dt where the weight of the
> > vehicle in kilograms is multiplied by the speed (V) in meters per
> > second (DV) divided by the drag in distance over time (Dt).

>
> > For one example, to maintain my Toyota pickup at 55 miles per hour,
> > the vehicle must consume 18,146 Watts (24.35 horsepower).

>
> > Many of the scam devices claim a fuel efficiency (in miles per gallon)
> > increase of around 30%. That means the device must produce enough
> > hydrogen to provide 5,444 additional watts to the engine--- in
> > addition to the gasoline consumed. That means, if the HHO device
> > converted the energy from the alternator into hydrogen at 100%
> > efficiency (which is impossible), and that hydrogen provided 100%
> > energy efficiency to the engine (also an impossibility), the HHO
> > device must consume 394 Amps to provide enough hydrogen and oxygen to
> > produce enough energy to increase MPG by 30%.

>
> > And yet most of the HHO devices draw at most 9 Amps, and their
> > efficiency at converting that 9 Amps into hydrogen is a small fraction
> > of 100%.

>
> > Not only does the math prove the devices are worthless, but actual
> > testing prove they are worthless. The United States Environment
> > Protection Agency tested nearly two dozen HHO devices, and every
> > single one tested were shown to be worthless.

>
> > More to the point, if these devices actually performed as their
> > sellers' claim, every automobile manufacturer would have long ago made
> > them standard equipment: they would already be in our automobiles, and
> > in every new automobile made. The USA government has ordered car
> > manufacturers to build more fuel-efficient automobiles, and if these
> > HHO devices actually worked, that requirement would be easily met with
> > a tiny fraction of the cost auto manufacturers are currently spending
> > working to meet that requirement.

>
> > The only "evidence" that promoters of the HHO "water car" / "water as
> > fuel" scam can provide is anonymous testimonials which they write to
> > sell the worthless devices. Worse yet, many of these devices are sold
> > in pyramid scams, called "multi-level marketing," or "network
> > marketing," which defrauds not only the victim who buys them, but also
> > the sellers who believe the devices work as claimed. That is, many
> > sellers have been stuck with hundreds of these useless devices, and
> > they cannot find enough suckers to buy them.

>
> > The bottom line is:

>
> > 1) these HHO devices cannot convert enough electrical energy into
> > mechanical energy to perform as the sellers claim;

>
> > 2) all tests of these devices show them to be worthless;

>
> > 3) the laws of physics mandate a loss of energy, every time, without
> > exception, when HHO devices are used;

>
> > 4) not all of the sellers and promoters of the scam know it's a scam,
> > until they put one in their own cars and discover it's a scam;

>
> > 5) if they worked, new cars would already have them installed;

>
> > 6) and finally, something that is clearly too good to be true almost
> > always is.

>
> Very nice explanation.
>
> About that equation to maintain your truck at 55 mph: *shouldn't
> velocity be raised to the third power, as in here?
>
> http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/DragPower.html
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael



ah I miss this stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_(physics)

Drag coefficients for various cars (Cd x A):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automob...g_coefficients
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