Tire Rotation and torquing

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Old 08 Mar 2009, 02:00 pm   #1 (permalink)
Built_Well
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Default Tire Rotation and torquing

Hi again folks. I hope everyone has been doing very well. It's
great to see that car masters Ray O, Tegger, Hachiroku, Bruce, and
others are still with us. You all provide so much helpful
information to so many people. We are all grateful :-)

Well, I rotated the tires yesterday for my second time ever. Damn,
that's a bear, one helluva strenuous exercise. It works out your
whole body, arms, legs, core. My muscles are aching a day later.
I went to bed early at 9 PM, and actually woke up in the middle of
the night at 3 AM to eat more food--that's how exhausting tire
rotating can be on your body. I never, ever have to wake up in the
middle of the night needing to eat. Just lots of aches and total
exhaustion {chuckle}

I had no trouble loosening the lug nuts with a 4-way lug
wrench, unlike the first time when I rotated the tires last
year, when I had to loosen the *super tight* lug nuts screwed on
by my Toyota dealer's tech who used some kind of automatic
device, instead of a proper torque wrench.

If I ever again have my dealer rotate my tires in the future, I'm
going to insist on a torque wrench. As we've mentioned before,
Walmart uses torque wrenches, so does Big O Tires, Sears, and
others. Inexcusable that my Toyota dealer doesn't. Of course,
he's the only Toyota dealer in Columbia, Missouri. Does your
Toyota dealer use torque wrenches?

Before untightening the lug nuts on 2 wheels (the front passenger
and rear driver-side wheels), I tested their torque reading by setting
my torque wrench to 76 and then 90 foot-pounds. The wrench
immediately clicked and the lug nuts didn't budge at 76, which is
a good sign since 76 foot-pounds is the proper torque for the
2006 Camry's wheels.

With the torque wrench set at 90 foot-pounds, the lug nuts
rotated quite a bit, tightening to 90. When I performed this test
last year, the wrench still clicked at 90 and the lug nuts didn't
move, indicating the lugs were super-tight, possibly because my
dealer's tech "guesstimated" torque by using an electrical or pneumatic
device, instead of a proper torque wrench. Of course, the lugs
may have also "tightened" on their own (gripped the studs with
greater force because of temperature, slight rusting, and what
not), but I tend not to think this is what happened in this case.
The tech should have used a proper torque wrench.

I did the tire rotation yesterday with 21,270 miles on the
odometer, which is 380 miles short of 6,000 miles since the last
rotation I did.

Of the 20 lug nuts, about a third of them (7) let out a loud
screech when I untightened them with the 4-way lug
wrench, indicating some rust. Tegger taught me that last year.

Speaking of rust, the hubs showed significantly more rust during
this tire rotation, than my first. So Ray O's suggestion to apply
a very thin layer of anti-seize on the hubs alone, is a great idea.
I will use anti-seize on the hubs next time I rotate the tires.
The wheels also stuck a little to the hubs when I tried removing
the wheels. Thankfully, the wheels only stuck a little bit,
nothing a medium budge couldn't remedy. But I'll definitely use
anti-seize next time. Wish I had already had it on hand yesterday.

There was no problem torquing the Camry's rear wheels to 76 foot
pounds while the car was on jack stands because I had applied the
emergency brake to prevent the rear wheels from moving freely.
However, since nobody was around when I wanted to torque the front
wheels, I used a 40-pound concrete block to hold down the brake
pedal. This prevented the front wheels from rotating freely while
torquing them. I must have had that 40-pound concrete block
applying pressure to the brake pedal for an entire 30 minutes.
Is that wise to do? Could any damage occur to the braking system
by holding down the brake pedal for 30 whole minutes?

I didn't want to do the final torquing to 76 foot-pounds while the
wheels were just barely touching the ground, because last time
when I did that some of the front lugs nuts loosened after a few
days and I had to retorque the front wheels. But I noticed the
rear wheels were fine last time, and I had torqued them while the
rear wheels were still in the air. So this time I used the heavy
concrete block to hold down the brake pedal (and engage the
front brakes) while the car was still on the jack stands. I hope
it was okay to hold down the brake pedal for 30 long minutes while
I torqued the front wheels.
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Old 08 Mar 2009, 02:45 pm   #2 (permalink)
JoeSpareBedroom
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Default Re: Tire Rotation and torquing

"Built_Well" <Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:49b414a6$0$57693$892e0abb@auth.newsreader.oct anews.com...
> Hi again folks. I hope everyone has been doing very well. It's
> great to see that car masters Ray O, Tegger, Hachiroku, Bruce, and
> others are still with us. You all provide so much helpful
> information to so many people. We are all grateful :-)
>
> Well, I rotated the tires yesterday for my second time ever. Damn,
> that's a bear, one helluva strenuous exercise. It works out your
> whole body, arms, legs, core. My muscles are aching a day later.
> I went to bed early at 9 PM, and actually woke up in the middle of
> the night at 3 AM to eat more food--that's how exhausting tire
> rotating can be on your body. I never, ever have to wake up in the
> middle of the night needing to eat. Just lots of aches and total
> exhaustion {chuckle}
>
> I had no trouble loosening the lug nuts with a 4-way lug
> wrench, unlike the first time when I rotated the tires last
> year, when I had to loosen the *super tight* lug nuts screwed on
> by my Toyota dealer's tech who used some kind of automatic
> device, instead of a proper torque wrench.
>
> If I ever again have my dealer rotate my tires in the future, I'm
> going to insist on a torque wrench. As we've mentioned before,
> Walmart uses torque wrenches, so does Big O Tires, Sears, and
> others. Inexcusable that my Toyota dealer doesn't. Of course,
> he's the only Toyota dealer in Columbia, Missouri. Does your
> Toyota dealer use torque wrenches?
>
> Before untightening the lug nuts on 2 wheels (the front passenger
> and rear driver-side wheels), I tested their torque reading by setting
> my torque wrench to 76 and then 90 foot-pounds. The wrench
> immediately clicked and the lug nuts didn't budge at 76, which is
> a good sign since 76 foot-pounds is the proper torque for the
> 2006 Camry's wheels.
>
> With the torque wrench set at 90 foot-pounds, the lug nuts
> rotated quite a bit, tightening to 90. When I performed this test
> last year, the wrench still clicked at 90 and the lug nuts didn't
> move, indicating the lugs were super-tight, possibly because my
> dealer's tech "guesstimated" torque by using an electrical or pneumatic
> device, instead of a proper torque wrench. Of course, the lugs
> may have also "tightened" on their own (gripped the studs with
> greater force because of temperature, slight rusting, and what
> not), but I tend not to think this is what happened in this case.
> The tech should have used a proper torque wrench.
>
> I did the tire rotation yesterday with 21,270 miles on the
> odometer, which is 380 miles short of 6,000 miles since the last
> rotation I did.
>
> Of the 20 lug nuts, about a third of them (7) let out a loud
> screech when I untightened them with the 4-way lug
> wrench, indicating some rust. Tegger taught me that last year.
>
> Speaking of rust, the hubs showed significantly more rust during
> this tire rotation, than my first. So Ray O's suggestion to apply
> a very thin layer of anti-seize on the hubs alone, is a great idea.
> I will use anti-seize on the hubs next time I rotate the tires.
> The wheels also stuck a little to the hubs when I tried removing
> the wheels. Thankfully, the wheels only stuck a little bit,
> nothing a medium budge couldn't remedy. But I'll definitely use
> anti-seize next time. Wish I had already had it on hand yesterday.
>
> There was no problem torquing the Camry's rear wheels to 76 foot
> pounds while the car was on jack stands because I had applied the
> emergency brake to prevent the rear wheels from moving freely.
> However, since nobody was around when I wanted to torque the front
> wheels, I used a 40-pound concrete block to hold down the brake
> pedal. This prevented the front wheels from rotating freely while
> torquing them. I must have had that 40-pound concrete block
> applying pressure to the brake pedal for an entire 30 minutes.
> Is that wise to do? Could any damage occur to the braking system
> by holding down the brake pedal for 30 whole minutes?
>
> I didn't want to do the final torquing to 76 foot-pounds while the
> wheels were just barely touching the ground, because last time
> when I did that some of the front lugs nuts loosened after a few
> days and I had to retorque the front wheels. But I noticed the
> rear wheels were fine last time, and I had torqued them while the
> rear wheels were still in the air. So this time I used the heavy
> concrete block to hold down the brake pedal (and engage the
> front brakes) while the car was still on the jack stands. I hope
> it was okay to hold down the brake pedal for 30 long minutes while
> I torqued the front wheels.



My mechanic spins the nuts on with the air wrench adjusted to about 80% of
final torque. He finishes with a torque wrench. He then takes the truck out
for a spin and checks torque again when he returns. This is an independent
mechanic who's obsessive about stuff like this.


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Old 08 Mar 2009, 04:07 pm   #3 (permalink)
Sharx35
Guest
  • Posts: n/a
  • User Status:


Default Re: Tire Rotation and torquing


"Built_Well" <Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:49b414a6$0$57693$892e0abb@auth.newsreader.oct anews.com...
> Hi again folks. I hope everyone has been doing very well. It's
> great to see that car masters Ray O, Tegger, Hachiroku, Bruce, and
> others are still with us. You all provide so much helpful
> information to so many people. We are all grateful :-)
>
> Well, I rotated the tires yesterday for my second time ever. Damn,
> that's a bear, one helluva strenuous exercise. It works out your
> whole body, arms, legs, core. My muscles are aching a day later.
> I went to bed early at 9 PM, and actually woke up in the middle of
> the night at 3 AM to eat more food--that's how exhausting tire
> rotating can be on your body. I never, ever have to wake up in the
> middle of the night needing to eat. Just lots of aches and total
> exhaustion {chuckle}
>
> I had no trouble loosening the lug nuts with a 4-way lug
> wrench, unlike the first time when I rotated the tires last
> year, when I had to loosen the *super tight* lug nuts screwed on
> by my Toyota dealer's tech who used some kind of automatic
> device, instead of a proper torque wrench.
>
> If I ever again have my dealer rotate my tires in the future, I'm
> going to insist on a torque wrench. As we've mentioned before,
> Walmart uses torque wrenches, so does Big O Tires, Sears, and
> others. Inexcusable that my Toyota dealer doesn't. Of course,
> he's the only Toyota dealer in Columbia, Missouri. Does your
> Toyota dealer use torque wrenches?
>
> Before untightening the lug nuts on 2 wheels (the front passenger
> and rear driver-side wheels), I tested their torque reading by setting
> my torque wrench to 76 and then 90 foot-pounds. The wrench
> immediately clicked and the lug nuts didn't budge at 76, which is
> a good sign since 76 foot-pounds is the proper torque for the
> 2006 Camry's wheels.
>
> With the torque wrench set at 90 foot-pounds, the lug nuts
> rotated quite a bit, tightening to 90. When I performed this test
> last year, the wrench still clicked at 90 and the lug nuts didn't
> move, indicating the lugs were super-tight, possibly because my
> dealer's tech "guesstimated" torque by using an electrical or pneumatic
> device, instead of a proper torque wrench. Of course, the lugs
> may have also "tightened" on their own (gripped the studs with
> greater force because of temperature, slight rusting, and what
> not), but I tend not to think this is what happened in this case.
> The tech should have used a proper torque wrench.
>
> I did the tire rotation yesterday with 21,270 miles on the
> odometer, which is 380 miles short of 6,000 miles since the last
> rotation I did.
>
> Of the 20 lug nuts, about a third of them (7) let out a loud
> screech when I untightened them with the 4-way lug
> wrench, indicating some rust. Tegger taught me that last year.
>
> Speaking of rust, the hubs showed significantly more rust during
> this tire rotation, than my first. So Ray O's suggestion to apply
> a very thin layer of anti-seize on the hubs alone, is a great idea.
> I will use anti-seize on the hubs next time I rotate the tires.
> The wheels also stuck a little to the hubs when I tried removing
> the wheels. Thankfully, the wheels only stuck a little bit,
> nothing a medium budge couldn't remedy. But I'll definitely use
> anti-seize next time. Wish I had already had it on hand yesterday.
>
> There was no problem torquing the Camry's rear wheels to 76 foot
> pounds while the car was on jack stands because I had applied the
> emergency brake to prevent the rear wheels from moving freely.
> However, since nobody was around when I wanted to torque the front
> wheels, I used a 40-pound concrete block to hold down the brake
> pedal. This prevented the front wheels from rotating freely while
> torquing them. I must have had that 40-pound concrete block
> applying pressure to the brake pedal for an entire 30 minutes.
> Is that wise to do? Could any damage occur to the braking system
> by holding down the brake pedal for 30 whole minutes?
>
> I didn't want to do the final torquing to 76 foot-pounds while the
> wheels were just barely touching the ground, because last time
> when I did that some of the front lugs nuts loosened after a few
> days and I had to retorque the front wheels. But I noticed the
> rear wheels were fine last time, and I had torqued them while the
> rear wheels were still in the air. So this time I used the heavy
> concrete block to hold down the brake pedal (and engage the
> front brakes) while the car was still on the jack stands. I hope
> it was okay to hold down the brake pedal for 30 long minutes while
> I torqued the front wheels.


I get free rotations and balances for the life of my tires. WHY would you go
through all this shit, when it is so cheap to have OTHERS do it?



  Reply With Quote
Old 08 Mar 2009, 04:08 pm   #4 (permalink)
Sharx35
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Default Re: Tire Rotation and torquing


"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:FfVsl.65509$cI2.51806@newsfe09.iad...
> "Built_Well" <Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:49b414a6$0$57693$892e0abb@auth.newsreader.oct anews.com...
>> Hi again folks. I hope everyone has been doing very well. It's
>> great to see that car masters Ray O, Tegger, Hachiroku, Bruce, and
>> others are still with us. You all provide so much helpful
>> information to so many people. We are all grateful :-)
>>
>> Well, I rotated the tires yesterday for my second time ever. Damn,
>> that's a bear, one helluva strenuous exercise. It works out your
>> whole body, arms, legs, core. My muscles are aching a day later.
>> I went to bed early at 9 PM, and actually woke up in the middle of
>> the night at 3 AM to eat more food--that's how exhausting tire
>> rotating can be on your body. I never, ever have to wake up in the
>> middle of the night needing to eat. Just lots of aches and total
>> exhaustion {chuckle}
>>
>> I had no trouble loosening the lug nuts with a 4-way lug
>> wrench, unlike the first time when I rotated the tires last
>> year, when I had to loosen the *super tight* lug nuts screwed on
>> by my Toyota dealer's tech who used some kind of automatic
>> device, instead of a proper torque wrench.
>>
>> If I ever again have my dealer rotate my tires in the future, I'm
>> going to insist on a torque wrench. As we've mentioned before,
>> Walmart uses torque wrenches, so does Big O Tires, Sears, and
>> others. Inexcusable that my Toyota dealer doesn't. Of course,
>> he's the only Toyota dealer in Columbia, Missouri. Does your
>> Toyota dealer use torque wrenches?
>>
>> Before untightening the lug nuts on 2 wheels (the front passenger
>> and rear driver-side wheels), I tested their torque reading by setting
>> my torque wrench to 76 and then 90 foot-pounds. The wrench
>> immediately clicked and the lug nuts didn't budge at 76, which is
>> a good sign since 76 foot-pounds is the proper torque for the
>> 2006 Camry's wheels.
>>
>> With the torque wrench set at 90 foot-pounds, the lug nuts
>> rotated quite a bit, tightening to 90. When I performed this test
>> last year, the wrench still clicked at 90 and the lug nuts didn't
>> move, indicating the lugs were super-tight, possibly because my
>> dealer's tech "guesstimated" torque by using an electrical or pneumatic
>> device, instead of a proper torque wrench. Of course, the lugs
>> may have also "tightened" on their own (gripped the studs with
>> greater force because of temperature, slight rusting, and what
>> not), but I tend not to think this is what happened in this case.
>> The tech should have used a proper torque wrench.
>>
>> I did the tire rotation yesterday with 21,270 miles on the
>> odometer, which is 380 miles short of 6,000 miles since the last
>> rotation I did.
>>
>> Of the 20 lug nuts, about a third of them (7) let out a loud
>> screech when I untightened them with the 4-way lug
>> wrench, indicating some rust. Tegger taught me that last year.
>>
>> Speaking of rust, the hubs showed significantly more rust during
>> this tire rotation, than my first. So Ray O's suggestion to apply
>> a very thin layer of anti-seize on the hubs alone, is a great idea.
>> I will use anti-seize on the hubs next time I rotate the tires.
>> The wheels also stuck a little to the hubs when I tried removing
>> the wheels. Thankfully, the wheels only stuck a little bit,
>> nothing a medium budge couldn't remedy. But I'll definitely use
>> anti-seize next time. Wish I had already had it on hand yesterday.
>>
>> There was no problem torquing the Camry's rear wheels to 76 foot
>> pounds while the car was on jack stands because I had applied the
>> emergency brake to prevent the rear wheels from moving freely.
>> However, since nobody was around when I wanted to torque the front
>> wheels, I used a 40-pound concrete block to hold down the brake
>> pedal. This prevented the front wheels from rotating freely while
>> torquing them. I must have had that 40-pound concrete block
>> applying pressure to the brake pedal for an entire 30 minutes.
>> Is that wise to do? Could any damage occur to the braking system
>> by holding down the brake pedal for 30 whole minutes?
>>
>> I didn't want to do the final torquing to 76 foot-pounds while the
>> wheels were just barely touching the ground, because last time
>> when I did that some of the front lugs nuts loosened after a few
>> days and I had to retorque the front wheels. But I noticed the
>> rear wheels were fine last time, and I had torqued them while the
>> rear wheels were still in the air. So this time I used the heavy
>> concrete block to hold down the brake pedal (and engage the
>> front brakes) while the car was still on the jack stands. I hope
>> it was okay to hold down the brake pedal for 30 long minutes while
>> I torqued the front wheels.

>
>
> My mechanic spins the nuts on with the air wrench adjusted to about 80% of
> final torque. He finishes with a torque wrench. He then takes the truck
> out for a spin and checks torque again when he returns. This is an
> independent mechanic who's obsessive about stuff like this.
>


Once he finds out that you are a LIEbrawl, better YOU check those lug nuts
yourself.



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Old 08 Mar 2009, 04:24 pm   #5 (permalink)
Retired VIP
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Default Re: Tire Rotation and torquing

On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 21:07:24 GMT, "Sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>"Built_Well" <Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:49b414a6$0$57693$892e0abb@auth.newsreader.oc tanews.com...
>> Hi again folks. I hope everyone has been doing very well. It's
>> great to see that car masters Ray O, Tegger, Hachiroku, Bruce, and
>> others are still with us. You all provide so much helpful
>> information to so many people. We are all grateful :-)

>
>I get free rotations and balances for the life of my tires. WHY would you go
>through all this shit, when it is so cheap to have OTHERS do it?
>
>

I'll agree with that. I used to do my own oil changes & lubes (when
cars had grease zerts), brake work, exhaust pipe and muffler work,
etc. I didn't really save all that much money and had to find a place
to ditch the old oil and parts. I pay others to do it now. Want to
buy a good set of air tools?

Jack j
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Old 08 Mar 2009, 04:31 pm   #6 (permalink)
Hachiroku ハチロク
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Default Re: Tire Rotation and torquing

On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 14:00:54 -0500, Built_Well wrote:

> Hi again folks. I hope everyone has been doing very well. It's
> great to see that car masters Ray O, Tegger, Hachiroku, Bruce, and
> others are still with us. You all provide so much helpful
> information to so many people. We are all grateful :-)
>
> Well, I rotated the tires yesterday for my second time ever. Damn,
> that's a bear, one helluva strenuous exercise. It works out your
> whole body, arms, legs, core. My muscles are aching a day later.
> I went to bed early at 9 PM, and actually woke up in the middle of
> the night at 3 AM to eat more food--that's how exhausting tire
> rotating can be on your body. I never, ever have to wake up in the
> middle of the night needing to eat. Just lots of aches and total
> exhaustion {chuckle}
>
> I had no trouble loosening the lug nuts with a 4-way lug
> wrench, unlike the first time when I rotated the tires last
> year, when I had to loosen the *super tight* lug nuts screwed on
> by my Toyota dealer's tech who used some kind of automatic
> device, instead of a proper torque wrench.
>
> If I ever again have my dealer rotate my tires in the future, I'm
> going to insist on a torque wrench. As we've mentioned before,
> Walmart uses torque wrenches, so does Big O Tires, Sears, and
> others. Inexcusable that my Toyota dealer doesn't. Of course,
> he's the only Toyota dealer in Columbia, Missouri. Does your
> Toyota dealer use torque wrenches?
>
> Before untightening the lug nuts on 2 wheels (the front passenger
> and rear driver-side wheels), I tested their torque reading by setting
> my torque wrench to 76 and then 90 foot-pounds. The wrench
> immediately clicked and the lug nuts didn't budge at 76, which is
> a good sign since 76 foot-pounds is the proper torque for the
> 2006 Camry's wheels.
>
> With the torque wrench set at 90 foot-pounds, the lug nuts
> rotated quite a bit, tightening to 90. When I performed this test
> last year, the wrench still clicked at 90 and the lug nuts didn't
> move, indicating the lugs were super-tight, possibly because my
> dealer's tech "guesstimated" torque by using an electrical or pneumatic
> device, instead of a proper torque wrench. Of course, the lugs
> may have also "tightened" on their own (gripped the studs with
> greater force because of temperature, slight rusting, and what
> not), but I tend not to think this is what happened in this case.
> The tech should have used a proper torque wrench.
>
> I did the tire rotation yesterday with 21,270 miles on the
> odometer, which is 380 miles short of 6,000 miles since the last
> rotation I did.
>
> Of the 20 lug nuts, about a third of them (7) let out a loud
> screech when I untightened them with the 4-way lug
> wrench, indicating some rust. Tegger taught me that last year.
>
> Speaking of rust, the hubs showed significantly more rust during
> this tire rotation, than my first. So Ray O's suggestion to apply
> a very thin layer of anti-seize on the hubs alone, is a great idea.
> I will use anti-seize on the hubs next time I rotate the tires.
> The wheels also stuck a little to the hubs when I tried removing
> the wheels. Thankfully, the wheels only stuck a little bit,
> nothing a medium budge couldn't remedy. But I'll definitely use
> anti-seize next time. Wish I had already had it on hand yesterday.
>
> There was no problem torquing the Camry's rear wheels to 76 foot
> pounds while the car was on jack stands because I had applied the
> emergency brake to prevent the rear wheels from moving freely.
> However, since nobody was around when I wanted to torque the front
> wheels, I used a 40-pound concrete block to hold down the brake
> pedal. This prevented the front wheels from rotating freely while
> torquing them. I must have had that 40-pound concrete block
> applying pressure to the brake pedal for an entire 30 minutes.
> Is that wise to do? Could any damage occur to the braking system
> by holding down the brake pedal for 30 whole minutes?
>
> I didn't want to do the final torquing to 76 foot-pounds while the
> wheels were just barely touching the ground, because last time
> when I did that some of the front lugs nuts loosened after a few
> days and I had to retorque the front wheels. But I noticed the
> rear wheels were fine last time, and I had torqued them while the
> rear wheels were still in the air. So this time I used the heavy
> concrete block to hold down the brake pedal (and engage the
> front brakes) while the car was still on the jack stands. I hope
> it was okay to hold down the brake pedal for 30 long minutes while
> I torqued the front wheels.



Hmmmm...Interesting post

However, I never rotate my tires! I have gotten up to 125,000 on a set of
(exceptional Bridgestone) tires without rotating.

I digress however. For your first point, the Toyota dealer not using a
torque wrench, they may be using something like this:

http://www.matcotools.com/ProductImages/WTK4500L.jpg

These are *supposed* to torque your nuts (well, not *YOUR* nuts!) to the
correct torque. I think when they reach the right torque they kind of
ratchet so the tech knows the torque is correct. I have to admit, i
checked the torque after someone used these and it was within 2 ft/lbs!

However, I don't trust them since I had a wheel fall off and check them
again. It's a good idea to check the torque ~100 miles after having a
wheel removed anyway.

Second, I have seen (in a Toyota manual IIRC, and other places), put the
wheel on the car, put the lug nuts on, tighten them more than hand tight
with a wrench until they bottom out, then put the wheel on the ground and
tighten to torque. I usually go about 90 ft/lbs, and haven't had any
trouble.


Ray may have a more definitive answer, but this is the way I've been doing
it for about 15+ years. Before that I put the wheel on and tightened it
until I heard the studs 'scream'...NOT recommended!!!


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Old 08 Mar 2009, 04:58 pm   #7 (permalink)
Ray O
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Default Re: Tire Rotation and torquing


"Built_Well" <Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:49b414a6$0$57693$892e0abb@auth.newsreader.oct anews.com...
> Hi again folks. I hope everyone has been doing very well. It's
> great to see that car masters Ray O, Tegger, Hachiroku, Bruce, and
> others are still with us. You all provide so much helpful
> information to so many people. We are all grateful :-)
>
> Well, I rotated the tires yesterday for my second time ever. Damn,
> that's a bear, one helluva strenuous exercise. It works out your
> whole body, arms, legs, core. My muscles are aching a day later.
> I went to bed early at 9 PM, and actually woke up in the middle of
> the night at 3 AM to eat more food--that's how exhausting tire
> rotating can be on your body. I never, ever have to wake up in the
> middle of the night needing to eat. Just lots of aches and total
> exhaustion {chuckle}
>
> I had no trouble loosening the lug nuts with a 4-way lug
> wrench, unlike the first time when I rotated the tires last
> year, when I had to loosen the *super tight* lug nuts screwed on
> by my Toyota dealer's tech who used some kind of automatic
> device, instead of a proper torque wrench.
>
> If I ever again have my dealer rotate my tires in the future, I'm
> going to insist on a torque wrench. As we've mentioned before,
> Walmart uses torque wrenches, so does Big O Tires, Sears, and
> others. Inexcusable that my Toyota dealer doesn't. Of course,
> he's the only Toyota dealer in Columbia, Missouri. Does your
> Toyota dealer use torque wrenches?
>
> Before untightening the lug nuts on 2 wheels (the front passenger
> and rear driver-side wheels), I tested their torque reading by setting
> my torque wrench to 76 and then 90 foot-pounds. The wrench
> immediately clicked and the lug nuts didn't budge at 76, which is
> a good sign since 76 foot-pounds is the proper torque for the
> 2006 Camry's wheels.
>
> With the torque wrench set at 90 foot-pounds, the lug nuts
> rotated quite a bit, tightening to 90. When I performed this test
> last year, the wrench still clicked at 90 and the lug nuts didn't
> move, indicating the lugs were super-tight, possibly because my
> dealer's tech "guesstimated" torque by using an electrical or pneumatic
> device, instead of a proper torque wrench. Of course, the lugs
> may have also "tightened" on their own (gripped the studs with
> greater force because of temperature, slight rusting, and what
> not), but I tend not to think this is what happened in this case.
> The tech should have used a proper torque wrench.
>
> I did the tire rotation yesterday with 21,270 miles on the
> odometer, which is 380 miles short of 6,000 miles since the last
> rotation I did.
>
> Of the 20 lug nuts, about a third of them (7) let out a loud
> screech when I untightened them with the 4-way lug
> wrench, indicating some rust. Tegger taught me that last year.
>
> Speaking of rust, the hubs showed significantly more rust during
> this tire rotation, than my first. So Ray O's suggestion to apply
> a very thin layer of anti-seize on the hubs alone, is a great idea.
> I will use anti-seize on the hubs next time I rotate the tires.
> The wheels also stuck a little to the hubs when I tried removing
> the wheels. Thankfully, the wheels only stuck a little bit,
> nothing a medium budge couldn't remedy. But I'll definitely use
> anti-seize next time. Wish I had already had it on hand yesterday.
>
> There was no problem torquing the Camry's rear wheels to 76 foot
> pounds while the car was on jack stands because I had applied the
> emergency brake to prevent the rear wheels from moving freely.
> However, since nobody was around when I wanted to torque the front
> wheels, I used a 40-pound concrete block to hold down the brake
> pedal. This prevented the front wheels from rotating freely while
> torquing them. I must have had that 40-pound concrete block
> applying pressure to the brake pedal for an entire 30 minutes.
> Is that wise to do? Could any damage occur to the braking system
> by holding down the brake pedal for 30 whole minutes?
>
> I didn't want to do the final torquing to 76 foot-pounds while the
> wheels were just barely touching the ground, because last time
> when I did that some of the front lugs nuts loosened after a few
> days and I had to retorque the front wheels. But I noticed the
> rear wheels were fine last time, and I had torqued them while the
> rear wheels were still in the air. So this time I used the heavy
> concrete block to hold down the brake pedal (and engage the
> front brakes) while the car was still on the jack stands. I hope
> it was okay to hold down the brake pedal for 30 long minutes while
> I torqued the front wheels.


Loosening torque is generally higher than tightening torque. After you have
tightened the lug nuts to 76 foot pounds, it will take more than 76 to
loosen them, so that is not a good indicator of whether the lug nuts were
tightened properly or not.

Leaving the brakes applied for 30 minutes doesn't harm anything, but it is
easier and safer to tighten the lug nuts until the wheel are seated, then
lower the vehicle to the ground, and then do the final tightening. This is
the method I have used for close to 40 years without any problems. All that
cranking while the car is up on stands risks pulling the vehicle off of the
stand.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


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Old 08 Mar 2009, 04:59 pm   #8 (permalink)
Ray O
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Default Re: Tire Rotation and torquing


"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:FfVsl.65509$cI2.51806@newsfe09.iad...

<snipped>

> My mechanic spins the nuts on with the air wrench adjusted to about 80% of
> final torque. He finishes with a torque wrench. He then takes the truck
> out for a spin and checks torque again when he returns. This is an
> independent mechanic who's obsessive about stuff like this.
>


This is the method I use - works every time.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


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Old 08 Mar 2009, 05:03 pm   #9 (permalink)
Ray O
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Default Re: Tire Rotation and torquing


"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@e86.GTS> wrote in message
newsan.2009.03.08.21.31.21.293668@e86.GTS...
> On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 14:00:54 -0500, Built_Well wrote:
>
>> Hi again folks. I hope everyone has been doing very well. It's
>> great to see that car masters Ray O, Tegger, Hachiroku, Bruce, and
>> others are still with us. You all provide so much helpful
>> information to so many people. We are all grateful :-)
>>
>> Well, I rotated the tires yesterday for my second time ever. Damn,
>> that's a bear, one helluva strenuous exercise. It works out your
>> whole body, arms, legs, core. My muscles are aching a day later.
>> I went to bed early at 9 PM, and actually woke up in the middle of
>> the night at 3 AM to eat more food--that's how exhausting tire
>> rotating can be on your body. I never, ever have to wake up in the
>> middle of the night needing to eat. Just lots of aches and total
>> exhaustion {chuckle}
>>
>> I had no trouble loosening the lug nuts with a 4-way lug
>> wrench, unlike the first time when I rotated the tires last
>> year, when I had to loosen the *super tight* lug nuts screwed on
>> by my Toyota dealer's tech who used some kind of automatic
>> device, instead of a proper torque wrench.
>>
>> If I ever again have my dealer rotate my tires in the future, I'm
>> going to insist on a torque wrench. As we've mentioned before,
>> Walmart uses torque wrenches, so does Big O Tires, Sears, and
>> others. Inexcusable that my Toyota dealer doesn't. Of course,
>> he's the only Toyota dealer in Columbia, Missouri. Does your
>> Toyota dealer use torque wrenches?
>>
>> Before untightening the lug nuts on 2 wheels (the front passenger
>> and rear driver-side wheels), I tested their torque reading by setting
>> my torque wrench to 76 and then 90 foot-pounds. The wrench
>> immediately clicked and the lug nuts didn't budge at 76, which is
>> a good sign since 76 foot-pounds is the proper torque for the
>> 2006 Camry's wheels.
>>
>> With the torque wrench set at 90 foot-pounds, the lug nuts
>> rotated quite a bit, tightening to 90. When I performed this test
>> last year, the wrench still clicked at 90 and the lug nuts didn't
>> move, indicating the lugs were super-tight, possibly because my
>> dealer's tech "guesstimated" torque by using an electrical or pneumatic
>> device, instead of a proper torque wrench. Of course, the lugs
>> may have also "tightened" on their own (gripped the studs with
>> greater force because of temperature, slight rusting, and what
>> not), but I tend not to think this is what happened in this case.
>> The tech should have used a proper torque wrench.
>>
>> I did the tire rotation yesterday with 21,270 miles on the
>> odometer, which is 380 miles short of 6,000 miles since the last
>> rotation I did.
>>
>> Of the 20 lug nuts, about a third of them (7) let out a loud
>> screech when I untightened them with the 4-way lug
>> wrench, indicating some rust. Tegger taught me that last year.
>>
>> Speaking of rust, the hubs showed significantly more rust during
>> this tire rotation, than my first. So Ray O's suggestion to apply
>> a very thin layer of anti-seize on the hubs alone, is a great idea.
>> I will use anti-seize on the hubs next time I rotate the tires.
>> The wheels also stuck a little to the hubs when I tried removing
>> the wheels. Thankfully, the wheels only stuck a little bit,
>> nothing a medium budge couldn't remedy. But I'll definitely use
>> anti-seize next time. Wish I had already had it on hand yesterday.
>>
>> There was no problem torquing the Camry's rear wheels to 76 foot
>> pounds while the car was on jack stands because I had applied the
>> emergency brake to prevent the rear wheels from moving freely.
>> However, since nobody was around when I wanted to torque the front
>> wheels, I used a 40-pound concrete block to hold down the brake
>> pedal. This prevented the front wheels from rotating freely while
>> torquing them. I must have had that 40-pound concrete block
>> applying pressure to the brake pedal for an entire 30 minutes.
>> Is that wise to do? Could any damage occur to the braking system
>> by holding down the brake pedal for 30 whole minutes?
>>
>> I didn't want to do the final torquing to 76 foot-pounds while the
>> wheels were just barely touching the ground, because last time
>> when I did that some of the front lugs nuts loosened after a few
>> days and I had to retorque the front wheels. But I noticed the
>> rear wheels were fine last time, and I had torqued them while the
>> rear wheels were still in the air. So this time I used the heavy
>> concrete block to hold down the brake pedal (and engage the
>> front brakes) while the car was still on the jack stands. I hope
>> it was okay to hold down the brake pedal for 30 long minutes while
>> I torqued the front wheels.

>
>
> Hmmmm...Interesting post
>
> However, I never rotate my tires! I have gotten up to 125,000 on a set of
> (exceptional Bridgestone) tires without rotating.
>
> I digress however. For your first point, the Toyota dealer not using a
> torque wrench, they may be using something like this:
>
> http://www.matcotools.com/ProductImages/WTK4500L.jpg
>
> These are *supposed* to torque your nuts (well, not *YOUR* nuts!) to the
> correct torque. I think when they reach the right torque they kind of
> ratchet so the tech knows the torque is correct. I have to admit, i
> checked the torque after someone used these and it was within 2 ft/lbs!
>
> However, I don't trust them since I had a wheel fall off and check them
> again. It's a good idea to check the torque ~100 miles after having a
> wheel removed anyway.
>
> Second, I have seen (in a Toyota manual IIRC, and other places), put the
> wheel on the car, put the lug nuts on, tighten them more than hand tight
> with a wrench until they bottom out, then put the wheel on the ground and
> tighten to torque. I usually go about 90 ft/lbs, and haven't had any
> trouble.
>
>
> Ray may have a more definitive answer, but this is the way I've been doing
> it for about 15+ years. Before that I put the wheel on and tightened it
> until I heard the studs 'scream'...NOT recommended!!!
>
>


I'm thinking about getting a set of torque sticks, although it is a little
hard to justify the cost since I'm not in production mode.

90 ft/lbs is a little high for alloy wheels. 76 ~ 80 for alloy, 90 is OK
for steel wheels.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


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Old 08 Mar 2009, 05:28 pm   #10 (permalink)
JoeSpareBedroom
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  • Posts: n/a
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Default Re: Tire Rotation and torquing

"Ray O" <rokigawa@NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote in message
news:gp1f3t$4f8$2@news.motzarella.org...
>
> "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:FfVsl.65509$cI2.51806@newsfe09.iad...
>
> <snipped>
>
>> My mechanic spins the nuts on with the air wrench adjusted to about 80%
>> of final torque. He finishes with a torque wrench. He then takes the
>> truck out for a spin and checks torque again when he returns. This is an
>> independent mechanic who's obsessive about stuff like this.
>>

>
> This is the method I use - works every time.
> --
>
> Ray O



Good. When my mechanic retires, I'm either buying a horse, or bringing my
truck to you. :-)


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