Dealer recommended services is not needed?

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Old 02 May 2009, 02:30 pm   #1 (permalink)
EdV
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Default Dealer recommended services is not needed?

Earlier Today I went to a North NJ Toyota dealer for my regular 5k
miles oil change and tire rotation.
My 4cyl Camry from May 2006 now has 45k miles. I waited inside
enjoying my coffee when the service
adviser approached me about my car. He said the following items need
to be replaced and performed:
Throttle body service-$109.95; Replace rear brake pads and reface the
rotors-$285; replace engine
air filter and cabin filters-$119; replace PCV assy -$25. I asked him
why my rear pads worn out first
since in my experience front pads always wear out first, he responded
by saying my car has ABS and traction
control or VSC which automatically applies the brakes as required by
the road condition. "My car has no
VSC?" I replied but he insisted that I did. Anyway, I turned down all
the other services and requested him to
perform only the oil change, because of monetary issues (but I didn't
tell him that).

After my oil change, I went to auto zone and bought a $19.99 tool set.
I never DIY my camry since I got it
almost 3 years ago, nor performed throttle body service and brake work
on any of my cars. I would consider myself average in minor auto
repair.

My question for the group are as follows:

Does this throttle body look bad? I'm not aware of a sticking pedal on
our Camry. Maybe I'm just used to driving the car, maybe if somebody
drove my car they would notice it?
normal view of throttle body .. http://i43.tinypic.com/1ph4yx.jpg
zoom view of throttle body .. http://i43.tinypic.com/fxwmdf.jpg
.. http://i43.tinypic.com/28higyg.jpg

Would you recommend refacing my rear rotors? Or should I just replace
pads, myself. Accdg. to Toyota, 2mm remains on my rear pads and 6mm in
the front. Its impossible for me to DIY my rotors.
http://i41.tinypic.com/n4zk5.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/24nfpys.jpg
Personally, I would say my rotors are still ok, I dont see any grooves
on my rotors. I do not have any squealing noise on my brakes, which I
recall indicate a wornout pad. Sorry, but I didn't bother taking out
the whole wheel to get a better picture.


Is the VSC standard on the Camry?, I think its an add on feature and I
didn't get them when I bought the car.
Why did my rear pads go bad before the front pads?

Is my engine air filter really that bad? Those guys didn't even bother
opening my air filter housing, when I took out my filter, small debris
fell off easily! Dealer replaced my air filter less than a year ago at
about 20k miles+/- 5k I cant remember anymore.
http://i39.tinypic.com/w2kaib.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/j0bafm.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/qox75y.jpg

And lastly, where the hell is my PCV! and how did they know its gone
bad? maybe on my next visit, they would
recommend to replace my EGR valve (...which I don't know where either)
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Old 02 May 2009, 03:36 pm   #2 (permalink)
Jeff Strickland
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Default Re: Dealer recommended services is not needed?

This is a common complaint of dealer service. Sorry.


"EdV" <systmengr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7966d171-01bf-4c6b-8c2e-fb31046c7641@e14g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
> Earlier Today I went to a North NJ Toyota dealer for my regular 5k
> miles oil change and tire rotation.
> My 4cyl Camry from May 2006 now has 45k miles. I waited inside
> enjoying my coffee when the service
> adviser approached me about my car. He said the following items need
> to be replaced and performed:
> Throttle body service-$109.95; Replace rear brake pads and reface the
> rotors-$285;


45k on the rear brakes is not normal service life. As a general rule, one
ought to get rear brake life vs. front brake life at a ratio of two to
one -- two sets fo front brakes to a set of rear brakes. At 45k, it might be
reasonable to replace the front brakes, I seriously doubt the rear brakes
need any attention at all.

You can remove the tires to expose the brake pads and rotors for a simple
inspection.

I doubt you need throttle body work.



replace engine
> air filter and cabin filters-$119;


You can replace the air filters EASILY by yourself. If you can pump gas, you
can replace filters.



replace PCV assy -$25.


The PVC is fine. Your car may not even have one of these because the car
makers figured out they can accomplish the same task with a simple orifice,
and not a delicate arrangement of springs and steel balls.



I asked him
> why my rear pads worn out first
> since in my experience front pads always wear out first, he responded
> by saying my car has ABS and traction
> control or VSC which automatically applies the brakes as required by
> the road condition. "My car has no
> VSC?" I replied but he insisted that I did. Anyway, I turned down all
> the other services and requested him to
> perform only the oil change, because of monetary issues (but I didn't
> tell him that).
>


EVEN IF your car had VSC, your car is Front Wheel Drive, so the traction
control would be applied to the front wheels, not the rear.


My daughter had a Tacoma PreRunner that the deaqlership told her she needed
a shopping car foull of parts at about the same mileage as you have. I
inspected the brakes and found that they had something in the range of 75%
of service life remaining -- I went and bought new pads, THEN found the old
pads were nearly as thick as the new ones.

You can easily replace pads and rotors at home, assuming you have reasonably
strong mechanical skills and abilities. Basically, if you can identify the
working end of a screwdriver, you ought to be okay. I think your rotors are
fine, and your brakes should be okay too. I would expect your front brakes
to need new pads about now, and your rear brakes to be calling for pads at
about 90k miles.







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Old 02 May 2009, 03:54 pm   #3 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: Dealer recommended services is not needed?

In article
<7966d171-01bf-4c6b-8c2e-fb31046c7641@e14g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>,
EdV <systmengr@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Earlier Today I went to a North NJ Toyota dealer for my regular 5k
> miles oil change and tire rotation.


note that you said "MY regular 5k miles" services.



> My 4cyl Camry from May 2006 now has 45k miles. I waited inside
> enjoying my coffee when the service
> adviser approached me about my car. He said the following items need
> to be replaced and performed:
> Throttle body service-$109.95; Replace rear brake pads and reface the
> rotors-$285; replace engine
> air filter and cabin filters-$119; replace PCV assy -$25. I asked him
> why my rear pads worn out first
> since in my experience front pads always wear out first, he responded
> by saying my car has ABS and traction
> control or VSC which automatically applies the brakes as required by
> the road condition. "My car has no
> VSC?" I replied but he insisted that I did.


You should have asked him which Sears Auto location he worked at before
coming to this dealership.




> Anyway, I turned down all
> the other services and requested him to
> perform only the oil change, because of monetary issues (but I didn't
> tell him that).


It's none of his business regardless, but the REAL reason should have
been because you know what services your car needs because you're
following the manufacturer's recommendations.

Hurting his feelings should be the absolute LAST consideration here. It
shouldn't even be on your mind.




> Does this throttle body look bad? I'm not aware of a sticking pedal on
> our Camry.


You'd notice it. Therefore, it's not doing it. Therefore, don't worry
about it. But if you're a worrier, cleaning it is not hard to do. USE
THROTTLE BODY CLEANER. Nothing else.




> Is my engine air filter really that bad? Those guys didn't even bother
> opening my air filter housing, when I took out my filter, small debris
> fell off easily! Dealer replaced my air filter less than a year ago at
> about 20k miles+/- 5k I cant remember anymore.


This last guy did not open your air cleaner assembly if you had crud
drop out of it when YOU opened it. It's also 99.999999% likely, based
on your description, that while you PAID for a new air filter a year
ago, the dealer did not actually replace it a year ago.

Don't go back there. Find someone else. A dealer is a good guy to have
a good relationship with, if you can find a good dealer. If not, find a
good indy shop--ask your friends, check out Car Talk's web site, etc.
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Old 02 May 2009, 04:01 pm   #4 (permalink)
Jeff Strickland
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Default Re: Dealer recommended services is not needed?


"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-3664A0.15544702052009@mara100-84.onlink.net...
> In article
> <7966d171-01bf-4c6b-8c2e-fb31046c7641@e14g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>,
> EdV <systmengr@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Earlier Today I went to a North NJ Toyota dealer for my regular 5k
>> miles oil change and tire rotation.

>
> note that you said "MY regular 5k miles" services.
>
>
>
>> My 4cyl Camry from May 2006 now has 45k miles. I waited inside
>> enjoying my coffee when the service
>> adviser approached me about my car. He said the following items need
>> to be replaced and performed:
>> Throttle body service-$109.95; Replace rear brake pads and reface the
>> rotors-$285; replace engine
>> air filter and cabin filters-$119; replace PCV assy -$25. I asked him
>> why my rear pads worn out first
>> since in my experience front pads always wear out first, he responded
>> by saying my car has ABS and traction
>> control or VSC which automatically applies the brakes as required by
>> the road condition. "My car has no
>> VSC?" I replied but he insisted that I did.

>
> You should have asked him which Sears Auto location he worked at before
> coming to this dealership.
>
>
>
>
>> Anyway, I turned down all
>> the other services and requested him to
>> perform only the oil change, because of monetary issues (but I didn't
>> tell him that).

>
> It's none of his business regardless, but the REAL reason should have
> been because you know what services your car needs because you're
> following the manufacturer's recommendations.
>
> Hurting his feelings should be the absolute LAST consideration here. It
> shouldn't even be on your mind.
>
>
>
>
>> Does this throttle body look bad? I'm not aware of a sticking pedal on
>> our Camry.

>
> You'd notice it. Therefore, it's not doing it. Therefore, don't worry
> about it. But if you're a worrier, cleaning it is not hard to do. USE
> THROTTLE BODY CLEANER. Nothing else.
>
>
>
>
>> Is my engine air filter really that bad? Those guys didn't even bother
>> opening my air filter housing, when I took out my filter, small debris
>> fell off easily! Dealer replaced my air filter less than a year ago at
>> about 20k miles+/- 5k I cant remember anymore.

>
> This last guy did not open your air cleaner assembly if you had crud
> drop out of it when YOU opened it. It's also 99.999999% likely, based
> on your description, that while you PAID for a new air filter a year
> ago, the dealer did not actually replace it a year ago.
>
> Don't go back there. Find someone else. A dealer is a good guy to have
> a good relationship with, if you can find a good dealer. If not, find a
> good indy shop--ask your friends, check out Car Talk's web site, etc.



I agree with all of your points EXCEPT the one about having the filter
replaced a year ago.

I'd like to add, if the filter _was_ replaced a year ago (and 5,000 miles,
according to the OP's report), then it does not need to be replaced again,
unless he lives at the end of a dirt road, and most of those 5k miles are in
his driveway.

The guy that didn't open the air cleaner box is the one that said last week
that he needs a new filter.





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Old 02 May 2009, 04:39 pm   #5 (permalink)
tak
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Default Re: Dealer recommended services is not needed?

Interesting coincidence, my 2000 camry six needed rear brakes at 45K ("rusty
rotors") but went 71K on the original front brakes.
"EdV" <systmengr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7966d171-01bf-4c6b-8c2e-fb31046c7641@e14g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
> Earlier Today I went to a North NJ Toyota dealer for my regular 5k
> miles oil change and tire rotation.
> My 4cyl Camry from May 2006 now has 45k miles. I waited inside
> enjoying my coffee when the service
> adviser approached me about my car. He said the following items need
> to be replaced and performed:
> Throttle body service-$109.95; Replace rear brake pads and reface the
> rotors-$285; replace engine
> air filter and cabin filters-$119; replace PCV assy -$25. I asked him
> why my rear pads worn out first
> since in my experience front pads always wear out first, he responded
> by saying my car has ABS and traction
> control or VSC which automatically applies the brakes as required by
> the road condition. "My car has no
> VSC?" I replied but he insisted that I did. Anyway, I turned down all
> the other services and requested him to
> perform only the oil change, because of monetary issues (but I didn't
> tell him that).
>
> After my oil change, I went to auto zone and bought a $19.99 tool set.
> I never DIY my camry since I got it
> almost 3 years ago, nor performed throttle body service and brake work
> on any of my cars. I would consider myself average in minor auto
> repair.
>
> My question for the group are as follows:
>
> Does this throttle body look bad? I'm not aware of a sticking pedal on
> our Camry. Maybe I'm just used to driving the car, maybe if somebody
> drove my car they would notice it?
> normal view of throttle body .. http://i43.tinypic.com/1ph4yx.jpg
> zoom view of throttle body .. http://i43.tinypic.com/fxwmdf.jpg
> .. http://i43.tinypic.com/28higyg.jpg
>
> Would you recommend refacing my rear rotors? Or should I just replace
> pads, myself. Accdg. to Toyota, 2mm remains on my rear pads and 6mm in
> the front. Its impossible for me to DIY my rotors.
> http://i41.tinypic.com/n4zk5.jpg
> http://i42.tinypic.com/24nfpys.jpg
> Personally, I would say my rotors are still ok, I dont see any grooves
> on my rotors. I do not have any squealing noise on my brakes, which I
> recall indicate a wornout pad. Sorry, but I didn't bother taking out
> the whole wheel to get a better picture.
>
>
> Is the VSC standard on the Camry?, I think its an add on feature and I
> didn't get them when I bought the car.
> Why did my rear pads go bad before the front pads?
>
> Is my engine air filter really that bad? Those guys didn't even bother
> opening my air filter housing, when I took out my filter, small debris
> fell off easily! Dealer replaced my air filter less than a year ago at
> about 20k miles+/- 5k I cant remember anymore.
> http://i39.tinypic.com/w2kaib.jpg
> http://i41.tinypic.com/j0bafm.jpg
> http://i42.tinypic.com/qox75y.jpg
>
> And lastly, where the hell is my PCV! and how did they know its gone
> bad? maybe on my next visit, they would
> recommend to replace my EGR valve (...which I don't know where either)
>



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Old 02 May 2009, 04:45 pm   #6 (permalink)
Ray O
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Default Re: Dealer recommended services is not needed?


"EdV" <systmengr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7966d171-01bf-4c6b-8c2e-fb31046c7641@e14g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
> Earlier Today I went to a North NJ Toyota dealer for my regular 5k
> miles oil change and tire rotation.
> My 4cyl Camry from May 2006 now has 45k miles. I waited inside
> enjoying my coffee when the service
> adviser approached me about my car. He said the following items need
> to be replaced and performed:
> Throttle body service-$109.95; Replace rear brake pads and reface the
> rotors-$285; replace engine
> air filter and cabin filters-$119; replace PCV assy -$25. I asked him
> why my rear pads worn out first
> since in my experience front pads always wear out first, he responded
> by saying my car has ABS and traction
> control or VSC which automatically applies the brakes as required by
> the road condition. "My car has no
> VSC?" I replied but he insisted that I did. Anyway, I turned down all
> the other services and requested him to
> perform only the oil change, because of monetary issues (but I didn't
> tell him that).
>
> After my oil change, I went to auto zone and bought a $19.99 tool set.
> I never DIY my camry since I got it
> almost 3 years ago, nor performed throttle body service and brake work
> on any of my cars. I would consider myself average in minor auto
> repair.
>
> My question for the group are as follows:
>
> Does this throttle body look bad? I'm not aware of a sticking pedal on
> our Camry. Maybe I'm just used to driving the car, maybe if somebody
> drove my car they would notice it?
> normal view of throttle body .. http://i43.tinypic.com/1ph4yx.jpg
> zoom view of throttle body .. http://i43.tinypic.com/fxwmdf.jpg
> .. http://i43.tinypic.com/28higyg.jpg


Your throttle body is clean and does not require any service at this time.
The usual symptom is a sticcking throttle pedal, and the inside has a sticky
varnish-like coating that can be cleaned with carburetor cleaner and some
paper towels.
>
> Would you recommend refacing my rear rotors? Or should I just replace
> pads, myself. Accdg. to Toyota, 2mm remains on my rear pads and 6mm in
> the front. Its impossible for me to DIY my rotors.
> http://i41.tinypic.com/n4zk5.jpg
> http://i42.tinypic.com/24nfpys.jpg
> Personally, I would say my rotors are still ok, I dont see any grooves
> on my rotors. I do not have any squealing noise on my brakes, which I
> recall indicate a wornout pad. Sorry, but I didn't bother taking out
> the whole wheel to get a better picture.


The rotors appear to be fine. I do not like machining rotors because they
have a tendency to warp abour a year later. I would just replace the pads
and lubricate the slide bolts and sleeves. I believe that the minimum pad
thickness is 1 mm, but I like to replace them at 2 mm to reduce the chance
of scoring the rotors. Pay attention to the slide bolts and sleeves if the
pads have worn that quickly.
>
>
> Is the VSC standard on the Camry?, I think its an add on feature and I
> didn't get them when I bought the car.


I do not think that VSC is standard on the Camry. If you have the feature,
there will be a button or switch marked "VSC Off."

> Why did my rear pads go bad before the front pads?


Most likely a sticking slide or sleeve.

>
> Is my engine air filter really that bad? Those guys didn't even bother
> opening my air filter housing, when I took out my filter, small debris
> fell off easily! Dealer replaced my air filter less than a year ago at
> about 20k miles+/- 5k I cant remember anymore.
> http://i39.tinypic.com/w2kaib.jpg
> http://i41.tinypic.com/j0bafm.jpg
> http://i42.tinypic.com/qox75y.jpg


The air filter does not look that bad. I would replace it according to the
factory recommendations.
>
> And lastly, where the hell is my PCV! and how did they know its gone
> bad? maybe on my next visit, they would
> recommend to replace my EGR valve (...which I don't know where either)


The PCV is usually located in the valve cover and is connected to the
throttle body by a hose about the diameter of your thumb. Not all cars have
one, and they should last over 60,000 miles. Judging from the very clean
condition of your throttle body, the PCV, if your car has one, is fine.
PCV's need replacement when the oil fumes gum it up.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


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Old 02 May 2009, 05:36 pm   #7 (permalink)
Ed
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Default Re: Dealer recommended services is not needed?

Thanks for all the replies.

Ray O - since you mentioned lubricating the slide bolts and sleeves,
what lubricant do you use?

Jeff - ratio of 2 to 1, that is how I imagined it to be, maybe an
industry standard too. I always bring the car to the same dealer, they
should have noticed that my rear pads wore first earlier and alerted
me. It always says on the printout that the techs inspected brakes.
But that's already asking too much from them.

Elmo - Well I have to go back there, its close to where I live but
only for parts, I will do my own service while the weather permits it.
But when winter comes maybe I'll be forced to get service from them
unless I find another shop, I'll visit car talks website.

and now that you mentioned they didn't actually replaced my air
filter, I think that they never really did inspect the chassis nuts
and bolts as indicated in the service package. You CANT visually
inspect a tight bolt. It should be re-torqued and not just look at it,
right?

tak - Maybe when you got the 45k rear brake service they fixed the
rear assy and now you get correct the 2:1 ratio front to back service.
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Old 02 May 2009, 05:54 pm   #8 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: Dealer recommended services is not needed?

In article <gtibke$s0n$1@news.motzarella.org>,
"Ray O" <rokigawa@NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote:

> Your throttle body is clean and does not require any service at this time.
> The usual symptom is a sticcking throttle pedal, and the inside has a sticky
> varnish-like coating that can be cleaned with carburetor cleaner and some
> paper towels.


DANGER DANGER DANGER DANGER DANGER DANGER DANGER

NOT carb cleaner. THROTTLE BODY cleaner.
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Old 02 May 2009, 06:01 pm   #9 (permalink)
tak
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Default Re: Dealer recommended services is not needed?


"Ed" <systmengr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b86d678c-918b-4c14-8534-17ccd4a9d686@t11g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for all the replies.
>
> Ray O - since you mentioned lubricating the slide bolts and sleeves,
> what lubricant do you use?
>
> Jeff - ratio of 2 to 1, that is how I imagined it to be, maybe an
> industry standard too. I always bring the car to the same dealer, they
> should have noticed that my rear pads wore first earlier and alerted
> me. It always says on the printout that the techs inspected brakes.
> But that's already asking too much from them.
>
> Elmo - Well I have to go back there, its close to where I live but
> only for parts, I will do my own service while the weather permits it.
> But when winter comes maybe I'll be forced to get service from them
> unless I find another shop, I'll visit car talks website.
>
> and now that you mentioned they didn't actually replaced my air
> filter, I think that they never really did inspect the chassis nuts
> and bolts as indicated in the service package. You CANT visually
> inspect a tight bolt. It should be re-torqued and not just look at it,
> right?
>
> tak - Maybe when you got the 45k rear brake service they fixed the
> rear assy and now you get correct the 2:1 ratio front to back service.
>


I wish but no, replaced the pads and rotors at 45k rear and 71k front.


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Old 02 May 2009, 08:15 pm   #10 (permalink)
SMS
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Default Re: Dealer recommended services is not needed?

EdV wrote:
> Earlier Today I went to a North NJ Toyota dealer for my regular 5k


> perform only the oil change, because of monetary issues (but I didn't
> tell him that).


You mean he didn't try to sell you the Bilstein Wallet Flush?

I went to a dealer today for an oil change and he tried to sell me a
bunch of other services. I left without even the oil change. I can't
trust that dealer. Last time I took a vehicle there they used the wrong
oil in the oil change.

I did return later in the day with a parts coupon (from another dealer)
and bought parts for DIY or my regular mechanic to use on our three
Toyotas. $4.29 for a Toyota filter, including the drain plug gasket that
they usually charge an extra $1.20 for (probably making it the highest
margin part they sell at 800% mark-up).
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