Coolant and ATF fluid changes on Toyota

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Old 12 Jun 2009, 10:30 pm   #1 (permalink)
Built_Well
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Default Coolant and ATF fluid changes on Toyota

According to the Genuine Fluids page at an online service garage called
Arts Automotive:

"Toyota is claiming their Type T-IV ATF does not need to be replaced
under 'normal operating conditions'. We strongly disagree. We recommend
changing Type T4 fluid every 15K miles, just like regular ATF. Type T4
is not particularly expensive, and the total cost of a transmission
drain and fill is only slightly more than a motor oil change." [end quote]

What do the Toyota experts here think? Should I just do a partial
drain-and-fill (no flushing) of the ATF now after 24,000 miles on my
'06 Camry, or just wait for 100,000 miles or perhaps 60,000 miles.
The car is 3.5 years old, and I didn't notice any bad odor or
discoloration of the red ATF when I looked at it yesterday via
the dipstick.

That was an ATF question, but the following concerns coolant.

The web site for Arts Automotive (a service garage) has this to say
about Toyota's Super Long Life coolant:

"We recommend replacing the coolant every 2-3 years or 30K, even with
Toyota Super Long Life Coolant. We think it's better to be safe than
sorry. Maybe we'll sing a different tune when Toyota releases their
Super-Duper Long Life Coolant [end quote]

Why would the Camry manual allow you to go 100,000 miles or 10 years
with the factory fill of Toyota Super Long Life coolant, but only
allow you to go 5 years or 50,000 miles with every refill thereafter.
I would guess both the factory fill and your own refills are
pre-diluted with distilled water, not tap water--at least if you buy
the jugs of genuine Toyota 50/50 coolant.

Anyway, is 50,000 miles and 5 years still too long to wait? Maybe
I ought to do a simple drain-and-fill (not flush) of the coolant every
3 years or 30,000 miles?
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Old 12 Jun 2009, 11:52 pm   #2 (permalink)
Ashton Crusher
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Default Re: Coolant and ATF fluid changes on Toyota

On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 22:30:42 -0500, Built_Well
<Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote:

>According to the Genuine Fluids page at an online service garage called
>Arts Automotive:
>
>"Toyota is claiming their Type T-IV ATF does not need to be replaced
>under 'normal operating conditions'. We strongly disagree. We recommend
>changing Type T4 fluid every 15K miles, just like regular ATF. Type T4
>is not particularly expensive, and the total cost of a transmission
>drain and fill is only slightly more than a motor oil change." [end quote]
>
>What do the Toyota experts here think? Should I just do a partial
>drain-and-fill (no flushing) of the ATF now after 24,000 miles on my
>'06 Camry, or just wait for 100,000 miles or perhaps 60,000 miles.
>The car is 3.5 years old, and I didn't notice any bad odor or
>discoloration of the red ATF when I looked at it yesterday via
>the dipstick.
>
>That was an ATF question, but the following concerns coolant.
>
>The web site for Arts Automotive (a service garage) has this to say
>about Toyota's Super Long Life coolant:
>
>"We recommend replacing the coolant every 2-3 years or 30K, even with
>Toyota Super Long Life Coolant. We think it's better to be safe than
>sorry. Maybe we'll sing a different tune when Toyota releases their
>Super-Duper Long Life Coolant [end quote]
>
>Why would the Camry manual allow you to go 100,000 miles or 10 years
>with the factory fill of Toyota Super Long Life coolant, but only
>allow you to go 5 years or 50,000 miles with every refill thereafter.
>I would guess both the factory fill and your own refills are
>pre-diluted with distilled water, not tap water--at least if you buy
>the jugs of genuine Toyota 50/50 coolant.
>
>Anyway, is 50,000 miles and 5 years still too long to wait? Maybe
>I ought to do a simple drain-and-fill (not flush) of the coolant every
>3 years or 30,000 miles?



Any recommendations that exceed what the manufactuer reccommends and
that are made by a garage that makes money by doing services, esp
maint, are suspect. They are just looking to line their pockets. If
the manufactuer says 100K you will be very safe doing it at half that
if you want extra security. Same for the coolant.
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Old 13 Jun 2009, 12:23 am   #3 (permalink)
john
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Default Re: Coolant and ATF fluid changes on Toyota

Dipstick always look better than the drained oil I must say from
experience. How does it look on clean tissue *compared* to new fluid
on clean tissue?

Toyota doesn't expect the first owner to keep their cars past about 4
years. If that fits you, by all means stick to the factory schedule
and save money. However, if you keep a car longer than that, as in
"2005 the overall median age for automobiles was 8.9 years", then you
may want to perform more frequent preventative maintenance on it.

The Type IV ATF is just a re-labeled conventional (dino) Mobil-3309
ATF. Nothing special about it. For about the same price I'd rather use
Mobil-1 Fully Synthetic ATF (the new formulation). I'd think Mobil
knows that it's Mobil-1 ATF is compatible with it's dino Mobil-3309.

Conventional ATF usually don't last over 50-60K miles under normal
service. So 30K miles under normal service for a dino oil would be a
*safe bet*, since Aisin transmission like to load up the fluild with
particles, so 15K isn't unreasonable on the A-series and indeed is
what Toyota specified for severe service.

However, T-IV is for the U-series clunkers that don't seem to put as
much crap into the fluid as the older A-series. So maybe 30K? You
decide. Synthetics are good for 100-120K miles under normal service.
However, 60K miles under severe service. Maybe use Mobil-1 in your
refill?



On Jun 12, 8:30*pm, Built_Well <Built_Well_Toy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> According to the Genuine Fluids page at an online service garage called
> Arts Automotive:
>
> "Toyota is claiming their Type T-IV ATF does not need to be replaced
> under 'normal operating conditions'. *We strongly disagree. We recommend
> changing Type T4 fluid every 15K miles, just like regular ATF. Type T4
> is not particularly expensive, and the total cost of a transmission
> drain and fill is only slightly more than a motor oil change." [end quote]
>
> What do the Toyota experts here think? Should I just do a partial
> drain-and-fill (no flushing) of the ATF now after 24,000 miles on my
> '06 Camry, or just wait for 100,000 miles or perhaps 60,000 miles.
> The car is 3.5 years old, and I didn't notice any bad odor or
> discoloration of the red ATF when I looked at it yesterday via
> the dipstick.
>
> That was an ATF question, but the following concerns coolant.
>
> The web site for Arts Automotive (a service garage) has this to say
> about Toyota's Super Long Life coolant:
>
> "We recommend replacing the coolant every 2-3 years or 30K, even with
> Toyota Super Long Life *Coolant. We think it's better to be safe than
> sorry. Maybe we'll sing a different tune when Toyota releases their
> Super-Duper Long Life Coolant [end quote]
>
> Why would the Camry manual allow you to go 100,000 miles or 10 years
> with the factory fill of Toyota Super Long Life coolant, but only
> allow you to go 5 years or 50,000 miles with every refill thereafter.
> I would guess both the factory fill and your own refills are
> pre-diluted with distilled water, not tap water--at least if you buy
> the jugs of genuine Toyota 50/50 coolant.
>
> Anyway, is 50,000 miles and 5 years still too long to wait? Maybe
> I ought to do a simple drain-and-fill (not flush) of the coolant every
> 3 years or 30,000 miles?


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Old 13 Jun 2009, 12:28 am   #4 (permalink)
Sharx35
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Default Re: Coolant and ATF fluid changes on Toyota


"Ashton Crusher" <demi@moore.net> wrote in message
news:3vb63512hpdtd1ga2vlnso4uhk4a24iadv@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 22:30:42 -0500, Built_Well
> <Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>According to the Genuine Fluids page at an online service garage called
>>Arts Automotive:
>>
>>"Toyota is claiming their Type T-IV ATF does not need to be replaced
>>under 'normal operating conditions'. We strongly disagree. We recommend
>>changing Type T4 fluid every 15K miles, just like regular ATF. Type T4
>>is not particularly expensive, and the total cost of a transmission
>>drain and fill is only slightly more than a motor oil change." [end quote]
>>
>>What do the Toyota experts here think? Should I just do a partial
>>drain-and-fill (no flushing) of the ATF now after 24,000 miles on my
>>'06 Camry, or just wait for 100,000 miles or perhaps 60,000 miles.
>>The car is 3.5 years old, and I didn't notice any bad odor or
>>discoloration of the red ATF when I looked at it yesterday via
>>the dipstick.
>>
>>That was an ATF question, but the following concerns coolant.
>>
>>The web site for Arts Automotive (a service garage) has this to say
>>about Toyota's Super Long Life coolant:
>>
>>"We recommend replacing the coolant every 2-3 years or 30K, even with
>>Toyota Super Long Life Coolant. We think it's better to be safe than
>>sorry. Maybe we'll sing a different tune when Toyota releases their
>>Super-Duper Long Life Coolant [end quote]
>>
>>Why would the Camry manual allow you to go 100,000 miles or 10 years
>>with the factory fill of Toyota Super Long Life coolant, but only
>>allow you to go 5 years or 50,000 miles with every refill thereafter.
>>I would guess both the factory fill and your own refills are
>>pre-diluted with distilled water, not tap water--at least if you buy
>>the jugs of genuine Toyota 50/50 coolant.
>>
>>Anyway, is 50,000 miles and 5 years still too long to wait? Maybe
>>I ought to do a simple drain-and-fill (not flush) of the coolant every
>>3 years or 30,000 miles?

>
>
> Any recommendations that exceed what the manufactuer reccommends and
> that are made by a garage that makes money by doing services, esp
> maint, are suspect. They are just looking to line their pockets. If
> the manufactuer says 100K you will be very safe doing it at half that
> if you want extra security. Same for the coolant.


Now, think about it. The manufacturer has a vested interest in the vehicle
not lasting TOO long, therefore, it would be in the interest of the
manufacturer to recommend LESS maintenance that what would be the ideal
amount.



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Old 13 Jun 2009, 12:33 am   #5 (permalink)
john
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Default Re: Coolant and ATF fluid changes on Toyota

Toyota pre-mixed Pink, which is basically half of GM's Dexcool
(without the fast acting 2EHA plasticizer acid), showed "significant
weight loss" (metal corrosion) in lab tests. It's not as good a
corrosion fighter as the red, but the red has the disadvantage of just
a 2-year service life.

If you plan to trade in the car after 4 years, no need to change the
coolant. Otherwise I personally would do at 3-4 years for 5-year
coolants (Pink, Dexcool, Preston All-Makes, G12, G-05, etc). Some
people even drive with 200K mile old timing belt. Your call.

Generally you don't want 2EHA in cooling systems not properly designed
to work with it. So stick with Red or Pink.



On Jun 12, 8:30*pm, Built_Well <Built_Well_Toy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Why would the Camry manual allow you to go 100,000 miles or 10 years
> with the factory fill of Toyota Super Long Life coolant, but only
> allow you to go 5 years or 50,000 miles with every refill thereafter.
> I would guess both the factory fill and your own refills are
> pre-diluted with distilled water, not tap water--at least if you buy
> the jugs of genuine Toyota 50/50 coolant.
>
> Anyway, is 50,000 miles and 5 years still too long to wait? Maybe
> I ought to do a simple drain-and-fill (not flush) of the coolant every
> 3 years or 30,000 miles?


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Old 13 Jun 2009, 12:46 am   #6 (permalink)
john
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Default Re: Coolant and ATF fluid changes on Toyota

BTW, your 06 Camry with the 2.4L engine? It has the problem of head
bolt coming loose because 1-3 head bolt threads disintegrate in the
back near the manifold insulation.

Is this corrosion from water jacket? Don't know, but it typically
happens between 50-100K miles, even maintained at the dealer. Looks
like Toyota wants to charge owners $4000-6000 to replace the engine if
out of warranty. Good luck.


Posted by: mag176
The car was dealer maintained for the first 47,000 miles, I took it
over after that because we moved. What the tech is telling me is that
the gasket blew because the head bolts are loose. They are pulling the
threads right out of the block. It’s going to have a short block
installed later in the week. Im told they are fixing the ones that are
caught under warranty, tough luck to everyone else. If anyone can hook
me up with info about other owners,tsb or any like info I would
appreciate it.
Thanks again, Mark


Full thread:
http://www.camryforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1301
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Old 13 Jun 2009, 12:48 am   #7 (permalink)
Ray O
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Default Re: Coolant and ATF fluid changes on Toyota


"Built_Well" <Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4a331d26$0$35403$892e0abb@auth.newsreader.oct anews.com...
> According to the Genuine Fluids page at an online service garage called
> Arts Automotive:
>
> "Toyota is claiming their Type T-IV ATF does not need to be replaced
> under 'normal operating conditions'. We strongly disagree. We recommend
> changing Type T4 fluid every 15K miles, just like regular ATF. Type T4
> is not particularly expensive, and the total cost of a transmission
> drain and fill is only slightly more than a motor oil change." [end quote]
>
> What do the Toyota experts here think? Should I just do a partial
> drain-and-fill (no flushing) of the ATF now after 24,000 miles on my
> '06 Camry, or just wait for 100,000 miles or perhaps 60,000 miles.
> The car is 3.5 years old, and I didn't notice any bad odor or
> discoloration of the red ATF when I looked at it yesterday via
> the dipstick.
>
> That was an ATF question, but the following concerns coolant.
>
> The web site for Arts Automotive (a service garage) has this to say
> about Toyota's Super Long Life coolant:
>
> "We recommend replacing the coolant every 2-3 years or 30K, even with
> Toyota Super Long Life Coolant. We think it's better to be safe than
> sorry. Maybe we'll sing a different tune when Toyota releases their
> Super-Duper Long Life Coolant [end quote]
>
> Why would the Camry manual allow you to go 100,000 miles or 10 years
> with the factory fill of Toyota Super Long Life coolant, but only
> allow you to go 5 years or 50,000 miles with every refill thereafter.
> I would guess both the factory fill and your own refills are
> pre-diluted with distilled water, not tap water--at least if you buy
> the jugs of genuine Toyota 50/50 coolant.
>
> Anyway, is 50,000 miles and 5 years still too long to wait? Maybe
> I ought to do a simple drain-and-fill (not flush) of the coolant every
> 3 years or 30,000 miles?


I think that the folks who designed and built your car are probably more
knowledgeable and have spend more time, money, and effort on R&D on your car
than Arts Garage, who may not have the resources to even acquire a Toyota
franchise.

If you really want to go overboard, change the ATF at 60,000 miles.

Cars that come with the pink Toyota Super Long Life coolant should not be
refilled with red Toyota Long Life coolant, although cars that came with the
red Long Life can be filled with Super Long Life. It is safe to follow
Toyota's recommendations on replacement intervals.

The Super Long Life comes pre-mixed so it should not be diluted.

--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


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Old 13 Jun 2009, 12:50 am   #8 (permalink)
john
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Default Re: Coolant and ATF fluid changes on Toyota

Some manufacturers push "planned obsolescence" to an art form.

On Jun 12, 10:28*pm, "Sharx35" <shar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Now, think about it. The manufacturer has a vested interest in the vehicle
> not lasting TOO long, therefore, it would be in the interest of the
> manufacturer to recommend LESS maintenance that what would be the ideal
> amount.


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Old 13 Jun 2009, 01:28 am   #9 (permalink)
es8m
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Default Re: Coolant and ATF fluid changes on Toyota

On Jun 12, 11:30*pm, Built_Well <Built_Well_Toy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> According to the Genuine Fluids page at an online service garage called
> Arts Automotive:
>
> "Toyota is claiming their Type T-IV ATF does not need to be replaced
> under 'normal operating conditions'. *We strongly disagree. We recommend
> changing Type T4 fluid every 15K miles, just like regular ATF. Type T4
> is not particularly expensive, and the total cost of a transmission
> drain and fill is only slightly more than a motor oil change." [end quote]
>
> What do the Toyota experts here think? Should I just do a partial
> drain-and-fill (no flushing) of the ATF now after 24,000 miles on my
> '06 Camry, or just wait for 100,000 miles or perhaps 60,000 miles.
> The car is 3.5 years old, and I didn't notice any bad odor or
> discoloration of the red ATF when I looked at it yesterday via
> the dipstick.
>
> That was an ATF question, but the following concerns coolant.
>
> The web site for Arts Automotive (a service garage) has this to say
> about Toyota's Super Long Life coolant:
>
> "We recommend replacing the coolant every 2-3 years or 30K, even with
> Toyota Super Long Life *Coolant. We think it's better to be safe than
> sorry. Maybe we'll sing a different tune when Toyota releases their
> Super-Duper Long Life Coolant [end quote]
>
> Why would the Camry manual allow you to go 100,000 miles or 10 years
> with the factory fill of Toyota Super Long Life coolant, but only
> allow you to go 5 years or 50,000 miles with every refill thereafter.
> I would guess both the factory fill and your own refills are
> pre-diluted with distilled water, not tap water--at least if you buy
> the jugs of genuine Toyota 50/50 coolant.
>
> Anyway, is 50,000 miles and 5 years still too long to wait? Maybe
> I ought to do a simple drain-and-fill (not flush) of the coolant every
> 3 years or 30,000 miles?



I think that you are overdoing this for some strange reason.

A modern vehicle should be able to go 50-100,000 miles without
changing ATF fluid.

A modern vehicle should be able to go 50-100,000 miles without
changing coolant.

Any mass retailer, Wal-mart,etc, can sell you the fluid or coolant
that you would need to do this.

Toyota only cares that you spend your money on their products.

The only thing that changing fluids early means is that you changed
the fluid early.

Forget the internet and drive...
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Old 13 Jun 2009, 07:29 am   #10 (permalink)
Nate Nagel
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Default Re: Coolant and ATF fluid changes on Toyota

es8m wrote:
> On Jun 12, 11:30 pm, Built_Well <Built_Well_Toy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> According to the Genuine Fluids page at an online service garage called
>> Arts Automotive:
>>
>> "Toyota is claiming their Type T-IV ATF does not need to be replaced
>> under 'normal operating conditions'. We strongly disagree. We recommend
>> changing Type T4 fluid every 15K miles, just like regular ATF. Type T4
>> is not particularly expensive, and the total cost of a transmission
>> drain and fill is only slightly more than a motor oil change." [end quote]
>>
>> What do the Toyota experts here think? Should I just do a partial
>> drain-and-fill (no flushing) of the ATF now after 24,000 miles on my
>> '06 Camry, or just wait for 100,000 miles or perhaps 60,000 miles.
>> The car is 3.5 years old, and I didn't notice any bad odor or
>> discoloration of the red ATF when I looked at it yesterday via
>> the dipstick.
>>
>> That was an ATF question, but the following concerns coolant.
>>
>> The web site for Arts Automotive (a service garage) has this to say
>> about Toyota's Super Long Life coolant:
>>
>> "We recommend replacing the coolant every 2-3 years or 30K, even with
>> Toyota Super Long Life Coolant. We think it's better to be safe than
>> sorry. Maybe we'll sing a different tune when Toyota releases their
>> Super-Duper Long Life Coolant [end quote]
>>
>> Why would the Camry manual allow you to go 100,000 miles or 10 years
>> with the factory fill of Toyota Super Long Life coolant, but only
>> allow you to go 5 years or 50,000 miles with every refill thereafter.
>> I would guess both the factory fill and your own refills are
>> pre-diluted with distilled water, not tap water--at least if you buy
>> the jugs of genuine Toyota 50/50 coolant.
>>
>> Anyway, is 50,000 miles and 5 years still too long to wait? Maybe
>> I ought to do a simple drain-and-fill (not flush) of the coolant every
>> 3 years or 30,000 miles?

>
>
> I think that you are overdoing this for some strange reason.
>
> A modern vehicle should be able to go 50-100,000 miles without
> changing ATF fluid.
>
> A modern vehicle should be able to go 50-100,000 miles without
> changing coolant.
>
> Any mass retailer, Wal-mart,etc, can sell you the fluid or coolant
> that you would need to do this.
>
> Toyota only cares that you spend your money on their products.
>
> The only thing that changing fluids early means is that you changed
> the fluid early.
>
> Forget the internet and drive...


I agree with your point, but I would change the ATF **AT** 50K miles,
not somewhere between 50 and 100. 15k is just silly though.

Coolant should be changed based on time, not mileage. Old green stuff
is good for 2 years, modern OAT 5.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
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