Head bolt failure and Coolant Loss on 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L engines

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Old 13 Jun 2009, 07:49 pm   #1 (permalink)
Hachiroku ハチロク
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Default Re: Head bolt failure and Coolant Loss on 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L engines

On Sat, 13 Jun 2009 21:22:43 -0700, john wrote:

> Some owners would notice coolant loss and leaks on the back side of
> the 2.4L engines, resulting in $4000+ of repairs, because head bolts
> simply come loose by themselves. I suspect 2007+ engines will suffer
> the same fate down the road.
>
> "3/6/2008
>
> Coolant Loss on 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L, 2AZFE engines
>
> The following information concerns the loss of coolant on some
> 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L, 2AZFE engines. The location of this condition
> has been noted at the rear of the engine where the cylinder head bolts
> to the cylinder block.
> It has been reported that stripped head bolt threads have been found
> on some of these engines during tear down. When the two rear head
> bolts lose their clamping ability they allow coolant to seep out at
> the rear of the cylinder head.
>
> To repair this condition, engine builders report using thread repair
> tooling used for various GM engines. Specifically, Cadillac 4.6L
> engines use the same threaded head bolts (Figure 1). The head bolts
> for this Toyota engine may be reused if they are not damaged and meet
> the following length specification.
>
> Using a vernier caliper, measure the length of the head bolts from the
> seat to the end.
>
> Specified bolt length: 6.350 to 6.465 (161.3 mm to 164.2 mm). If
> the length is greater than the maximum, replace the bolt.
>
> This information was provided by the Engine Builders Association
> (AERA)."
>
> http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...e_engines.aspx



Yeah. Thanks, hey...


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Old 13 Jun 2009, 11:22 pm   #2 (permalink)
john
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Default Head bolt failure and Coolant Loss on 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L engines

Some owners would notice coolant loss and leaks on the back side of
the 2.4L engines, resulting in $4000+ of repairs, because head bolts
simply come loose by themselves. I suspect 2007+ engines will suffer
the same fate down the road.

"3/6/2008

Coolant Loss on 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L, 2AZFE engines

The following information concerns the loss of coolant on some
2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L, 2AZFE engines. The location of this condition
has been noted at the rear of the engine where the cylinder head bolts
to the cylinder block.
It has been reported that stripped head bolt threads have been found
on some of these engines during tear down. When the two rear head
bolts lose their clamping ability they allow coolant to seep out at
the rear of the cylinder head.

To repair this condition, engine builders report using thread repair
tooling used for various GM engines. Specifically, Cadillac 4.6L
engines use the same threaded head bolts (Figure 1). The head bolts
for this Toyota engine may be reused if they are not damaged and meet
the following length specification.

Using a vernier caliper, measure the length of the head bolts from the
seat to the end.

Specified bolt length: 6.350 to 6.465 (161.3 mm to 164.2 mm). If
the length is greater than the maximum, replace the bolt.

This information was provided by the Engine Builders Association
(AERA)."

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...e_engines.aspx
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Old 14 Jun 2009, 06:02 pm   #3 (permalink)
Hachiroku ハチロク
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Default Re: Head bolt failure and Coolant Loss on 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L engines

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:40:42 -0700, ransley wrote:

> On Jun 13, 11:22*pm, john <johngd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Some owners would notice coolant loss and leaks on the back side of
>> the 2.4L engines, resulting in $4000+ of repairs, because head bolts
>> simply come loose by themselves. I suspect 2007+ engines will suffer
>> the same fate down the road.
>>
>> "3/6/2008
>>
>> Coolant Loss on 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L, 2AZFE engines
>>
>> The following information concerns the loss of coolant on some
>> 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L, 2AZFE engines. The location of this condition
>> has been noted at the rear of the engine where the cylinder head bolts
>> to the cylinder block.
>> It has been reported that stripped head bolt threads have been found
>> on some of these engines during tear down. When the two rear head
>> bolts lose their clamping ability they allow coolant to seep out at
>> the rear of the cylinder head.
>>
>> To repair this condition, engine builders report using thread repair
>> tooling used for various GM engines. Specifically, Cadillac 4.6L
>> engines use the same threaded head bolts (Figure 1). The head bolts
>> for this Toyota engine may be reused if they are not damaged and meet
>> the following length specification.
>>
>> Using a vernier caliper, measure the length of the head bolts from the
>> seat to the end.
>>
>> Specified bolt length: 6.350 to 6.465 *(161.3 mm to 164.2 mm). If
>> the length is greater than the maximum, replace the bolt.
>>
>> This information was *provided by the Engine Builders Association
>> (AERA)."
>>
>> http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...ss_on_20022006...

>
> How did that happen, it seems they were over torqued when being made?



According to what I can gather, the threading didn't go all the way to the
top, and if the bolt starts to loosen at all it pulls out of the head when
it gets to the position where there aren't any threads to hold it in.


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Old 14 Jun 2009, 07:40 pm   #4 (permalink)
ransley
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Default Re: Head bolt failure and Coolant Loss on 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4Lengines

On Jun 13, 11:22*pm, john <johngd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Some owners would notice coolant loss and leaks on the back side of
> the 2.4L engines, resulting in $4000+ of repairs, because head bolts
> simply come loose by themselves. I suspect 2007+ engines will suffer
> the same fate down the road.
>
> "3/6/2008
>
> Coolant Loss on 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L, 2AZFE engines
>
> The following information concerns the loss of coolant on some
> 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L, 2AZFE engines. The location of this condition
> has been noted at the rear of the engine where the cylinder head bolts
> to the cylinder block.
> It has been reported that stripped head bolt threads have been found
> on some of these engines during tear down. When the two rear head
> bolts lose their clamping ability they allow coolant to seep out at
> the rear of the cylinder head.
>
> To repair this condition, engine builders report using thread repair
> tooling used for various GM engines. Specifically, Cadillac 4.6L
> engines use the same threaded head bolts (Figure 1). The head bolts
> for this Toyota engine may be reused if they are not damaged and meet
> the following length specification.
>
> Using a vernier caliper, measure the length of the head bolts from the
> seat to the end.
>
> Specified bolt length: 6.350 to 6.465 *(161.3 mm to 164.2 mm). If
> the length is greater than the maximum, replace the bolt.
>
> This information was *provided by the Engine Builders Association
> (AERA)."
>
> http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...ss_on_20022006...


How did that happen, it seems they were over torqued when being made?
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Old 14 Jun 2009, 10:27 pm   #5 (permalink)
David Wells
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Default Re: Head bolt failure and Coolant Loss on 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L engines

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:02:40 -0400, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno@e86.GTS>
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:40:42 -0700, ransley wrote:
>
>> On Jun 13, 11:22*pm, john <johngd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Some owners would notice coolant loss and leaks on the back side of
>>> the 2.4L engines, resulting in $4000+ of repairs, because head bolts
>>> simply come loose by themselves. I suspect 2007+ engines will suffer
>>> the same fate down the road.
>>>
>>> "3/6/2008
>>>
>>> Coolant Loss on 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L, 2AZFE engines
>>>
>>> The following information concerns the loss of coolant on some
>>> 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L, 2AZFE engines. The location of this condition
>>> has been noted at the rear of the engine where the cylinder head bolts
>>> to the cylinder block.
>>> It has been reported that stripped head bolt threads have been found
>>> on some of these engines during tear down. When the two rear head
>>> bolts lose their clamping ability they allow coolant to seep out at
>>> the rear of the cylinder head.
>>>
>>> To repair this condition, engine builders report using thread repair
>>> tooling used for various GM engines. Specifically, Cadillac 4.6L
>>> engines use the same threaded head bolts (Figure 1). The head bolts
>>> for this Toyota engine may be reused if they are not damaged and meet
>>> the following length specification.
>>>
>>> Using a vernier caliper, measure the length of the head bolts from the
>>> seat to the end.
>>>
>>> Specified bolt length: 6.350 to 6.465 *(161.3 mm to 164.2 mm). If
>>> the length is greater than the maximum, replace the bolt.
>>>
>>> This information was *provided by the Engine Builders Association
>>> (AERA)."
>>>
>>> http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...ss_on_20022006...

>>
>> How did that happen, it seems they were over torqued when being made?

>
>
>According to what I can gather, the threading didn't go all the way to the
>top, and if the bolt starts to loosen at all it pulls out of the head when
>it gets to the position where there aren't any threads to hold it in.
>

I would think that if many Toyota camry with this engine are showing
up with this problem that there should be a recall for the dealer's to
check for this.
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Old 15 Jun 2009, 06:15 am   #6 (permalink)
ransley
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Default Re: Head bolt failure and Coolant Loss on 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4Lengines

On Jun 14, 6:02 pm, Hachiroku ハチロク <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:40:42 -0700, ransley wrote:
> > On Jun 13, 11:22 pm, john <johngd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Some owners would notice coolant loss and leaks on the back side of
> >> the 2.4L engines, resulting in $4000+ of repairs, because head bolts
> >> simply come loose by themselves. I suspect 2007+ engines will suffer
> >> the same fate down the road.

>
> >> "3/6/2008

>
> >> Coolant Loss on 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L, 2AZFE engines

>
> >> The following information concerns the loss of coolant on some
> >> 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L, 2AZFE engines. The location of this condition
> >> has been noted at the rear of the engine where the cylinder head bolts
> >> to the cylinder block.
> >> It has been reported that stripped head bolt threads have been found
> >> on some of these engines during tear down. When the two rear head
> >> bolts lose their clamping ability they allow coolant to seep out at
> >> the rear of the cylinder head.

>
> >> To repair this condition, engine builders report using thread repair
> >> tooling used for various GM engines. Specifically, Cadillac 4.6L
> >> engines use the same threaded head bolts (Figure 1). The head bolts
> >> for this Toyota engine may be reused if they are not damaged and meet
> >> the following length specification.

>
> >> Using a vernier caliper, measure the length of the head bolts from the
> >> seat to the end.

>
> >> Specified bolt length: 6.350 1/2 to 6.465 1/2 (161.3 mm to 164.2 mm). If
> >> the length is greater than the maximum, replace the bolt.

>
> >> This information was provided by the Engine Builders Association
> >> (AERA)."

>
> >>http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...ss_on_20022006...

>
> > How did that happen, it seems they were over torqued when being made?

>
> According to what I can gather, the threading didn't go all the way to the
> top, and if the bolt starts to loosen at all it pulls out of the head when
> it gets to the position where there aren't any threads to hold it in.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


This is something like I would think GM would have done, we has a 82?
caddy with the 4.1, everytime we went to the dealer there were 5-6
motors on the floor for the week they replaced under warranty, even my
dealer said the 4.1 was probably the worst motor gm ever made. Well
maybe the Olds deisel conversion and the Vega were worse but the caddy
would blow head gaskets starting at 40000 onward, several I saw on the
highway in meltdown mode, black and white smoke out the exhaust. Toy
has noted alot of issues with their "becoming #1 in sales but after
this much time selling a defect like this it is disturbing.
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Old 15 Jun 2009, 06:42 am   #7 (permalink)
Leftie
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Default Re: Head bolt failure and Coolant Loss on 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4Lengines

Hachiroku * wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:40:42 -0700, ransley wrote:
>
>> On Jun 13, 11:22 pm, john <johngd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Some owners would notice coolant loss and leaks on the back side of
>>> the 2.4L engines, resulting in $4000+ of repairs, because head bolts
>>> simply come loose by themselves. I suspect 2007+ engines will suffer
>>> the same fate down the road.
>>>
>>> "3/6/2008
>>>
>>> Coolant Loss on 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L, 2AZFE engines
>>>
>>> The following information concerns the loss of coolant on some
>>> 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L, 2AZFE engines. The location of this condition
>>> has been noted at the rear of the engine where the cylinder head bolts
>>> to the cylinder block.
>>> It has been reported that stripped head bolt threads have been found
>>> on some of these engines during tear down. When the two rear head
>>> bolts lose their clamping ability they allow coolant to seep out at
>>> the rear of the cylinder head.
>>>
>>> To repair this condition, engine builders report using thread repair
>>> tooling used for various GM engines. Specifically, Cadillac 4.6L
>>> engines use the same threaded head bolts (Figure 1). The head bolts
>>> for this Toyota engine may be reused if they are not damaged and meet
>>> the following length specification.
>>>
>>> Using a vernier caliper, measure the length of the head bolts from the
>>> seat to the end.
>>>
>>> Specified bolt length: 6.350 to 6.465 (161.3 mm to 164.2 mm). If
>>> the length is greater than the maximum, replace the bolt.
>>>
>>> This information was provided by the Engine Builders Association
>>> (AERA)."
>>>
>>> http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...ss_on_20022006...

>> How did that happen, it seems they were over torqued when being made?

>
>
> According to what I can gather, the threading didn't go all the way to the
> top, and if the bolt starts to loosen at all it pulls out of the head when
> it gets to the position where there aren't any threads to hold it in.
>
>


Not to be too obvious, but head bolts aren't supposed to just loosen
up in the first place. I'm guessing they skipped a step in assembly, or
had materials problems.
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Old 15 Jun 2009, 07:30 am   #8 (permalink)
Hachiroku
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Default Re: Head bolt failure and Coolant Loss on 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4Lengines

On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 04:15:03 -0700, ransley wrote:

>> According to what I can gather, the threading didn't go all the way to
>> the top, and if the bolt starts to loosen at all it pulls out of the
>> head when it gets to the position where there aren't any threads to
>> hold it in.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -

>
> This is something like I would think GM would have done, we has a 82?
> caddy with the 4.1, everytime we went to the dealer there were 5-6
> motors on the floor for the week they replaced under warranty, even my
> dealer said the 4.1 was probably the worst motor gm ever made. Well
> maybe the Olds deisel conversion and the Vega were worse but the caddy
> would blow head gaskets starting at 40000 onward, several I saw on the
> highway in meltdown mode, black and white smoke out the exhaust. Toy has
> noted alot of issues with their "becoming #1 in sales but after this
> much time selling a defect like this it is disturbing.


Actually, I was thinking about this.

At 40,000 miles my hachiroku needed a pre-emptive HG replacement.
Interesting because the 86.5-91 or 92 Supras had the same basic engine
design, and they also needed to have the HGs replaced. Of course, this is
a Yamaha engine...

Knowing then what I know now, I would have told them to pay for the HG on
the '86', since it is now apparent it was a congenital problem. Hey, it
was only $400 1988 dollars...

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Old 15 Jun 2009, 07:31 am   #9 (permalink)
Hachiroku
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Default Re: Head bolt failure and Coolant Loss on 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4Lengines

On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 06:42:41 -0500, Leftie wrote:

> Hachiroku * wrote:
>> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:40:42 -0700, ransley wrote:
>>
>>> On Jun 13, 11:22 pm, john <johngd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Some owners would notice coolant loss and leaks on the back side of
>>>> the 2.4L engines, resulting in $4000+ of repairs, because head bolts
>>>> simply come loose by themselves. I suspect 2007+ engines will suffer
>>>> the same fate down the road.
>>>>
>>>> "3/6/2008
>>>>
>>>> Coolant Loss on 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L, 2AZFE engines
>>>>
>>>> The following information concerns the loss of coolant on some
>>>> 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L, 2AZFE engines. The location of this condition
>>>> has been noted at the rear of the engine where the cylinder head
>>>> bolts to the cylinder block.
>>>> It has been reported that stripped head bolt threads have been found
>>>> on some of these engines during tear down. When the two rear head
>>>> bolts lose their clamping ability they allow coolant to seep out at
>>>> the rear of the cylinder head.
>>>>
>>>> To repair this condition, engine builders report using thread repair
>>>> tooling used for various GM engines. Specifically, Cadillac 4.6L
>>>> engines use the same threaded head bolts (Figure 1). The head bolts
>>>> for this Toyota engine may be reused if they are not damaged and meet
>>>> the following length specification.
>>>>
>>>> Using a vernier caliper, measure the length of the head bolts from
>>>> the seat to the end.
>>>>
>>>> Specified bolt length: 6.350 to 6.465 (161.3 mm to 164.2 mm). If
>>>> the length is greater than the maximum, replace the bolt.
>>>>
>>>> This information was provided by the Engine Builders Association
>>>> (AERA)."
>>>>
>>>> http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/3569/

coolant_loss_on_20022006...
>>> How did that happen, it seems they were over torqued when being made?

>>
>>
>> According to what I can gather, the threading didn't go all the way to
>> the top, and if the bolt starts to loosen at all it pulls out of the
>> head when it gets to the position where there aren't any threads to
>> hold it in.
>>
>>
>>

> Not to be too obvious, but head bolts aren't supposed to just loosen
> up in the first place. I'm guessing they skipped a step in assembly, or
> had materials problems.


According to what I saw, the threads aren't robust enough. The fix
appears to be Heli-coils. They sure as hell won't pull out!

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Old 16 Jun 2009, 06:27 pm   #10 (permalink)
Leftie
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Default Re: Head bolt failure and Coolant Loss on 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4Lengines

Hachiroku wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 06:42:41 -0500, Leftie wrote:
>
>> Hachiroku * wrote:
>>> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:40:42 -0700, ransley wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jun 13, 11:22 pm, john <johngd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Some owners would notice coolant loss and leaks on the back side of
>>>>> the 2.4L engines, resulting in $4000+ of repairs, because head bolts
>>>>> simply come loose by themselves. I suspect 2007+ engines will suffer
>>>>> the same fate down the road.
>>>>>
>>>>> "3/6/2008
>>>>>
>>>>> Coolant Loss on 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L, 2AZFE engines
>>>>>
>>>>> The following information concerns the loss of coolant on some
>>>>> 2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L, 2AZFE engines. The location of this condition
>>>>> has been noted at the rear of the engine where the cylinder head
>>>>> bolts to the cylinder block.
>>>>> It has been reported that stripped head bolt threads have been found
>>>>> on some of these engines during tear down. When the two rear head
>>>>> bolts lose their clamping ability they allow coolant to seep out at
>>>>> the rear of the cylinder head.
>>>>>
>>>>> To repair this condition, engine builders report using thread repair
>>>>> tooling used for various GM engines. Specifically, Cadillac 4.6L
>>>>> engines use the same threaded head bolts (Figure 1). The head bolts
>>>>> for this Toyota engine may be reused if they are not damaged and meet
>>>>> the following length specification.
>>>>>
>>>>> Using a vernier caliper, measure the length of the head bolts from
>>>>> the seat to the end.
>>>>>
>>>>> Specified bolt length: 6.350 to 6.465 (161.3 mm to 164.2 mm). If
>>>>> the length is greater than the maximum, replace the bolt.
>>>>>
>>>>> This information was provided by the Engine Builders Association
>>>>> (AERA)."
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/3569/

> coolant_loss_on_20022006...
>>>> How did that happen, it seems they were over torqued when being made?
>>>
>>> According to what I can gather, the threading didn't go all the way to
>>> the top, and if the bolt starts to loosen at all it pulls out of the
>>> head when it gets to the position where there aren't any threads to
>>> hold it in.
>>>
>>>
>>>

>> Not to be too obvious, but head bolts aren't supposed to just loosen
>> up in the first place. I'm guessing they skipped a step in assembly, or
>> had materials problems.

>
> According to what I saw, the threads aren't robust enough. The fix
> appears to be Heli-coils. They sure as hell won't pull out!
>


When Toyota actually produces bad designs like that, you know
they've finally replaced GM. ;-(
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