I changed the Camry's ATF today (added Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF)

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Old 02 Jul 2009, 11:19 pm   #1 (permalink)
Built_Well
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Default I changed the Camry's ATF today (added Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF)

Today I did a drain and refill of my transmission pan's Toyota T-IV,
replacing it with Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF. 3.7 quarts of red T-IV
drained out and I replaced it with 4 quarts of red M1 Synthetic. The
extra 1/4 of a quart or 0.30 quarts isn't too much extra, is it?
Not enough to cause foaming or windage, right? (Not even sure windage
is an issue in automatic transmissions like windage can be with motor
oil inside an engine.)

Anyway, the car really likes the M1 ATF so far. True only about
50 percent of the car's total ATF capacity is M1. The other 50 percent
is the factory fill of T-IV (now 25,000 miles old and 3.5 years).
Maybe it's my imagination, but the car seemed like it was shifting
a lot better today with the M1 synthetic in it. Or maybe it's just a
result of having some fresh sauce in the car.

I took a sample of the drained T-IV ATF and will mail it to
Blackstone Labs tomorrow, just for fun. I don't expect to see any
problems.

The only thing I didn't much care for during the ATF change was the
surprise of finding an Allen wrench socket on the transmission pan's
drain plug. It's not a regular bolt, so I wasn't able to use my trusty
Craftsman torque wrench to torque the drain plug to 36 foot-pounds.
This is an '06 Camry, and unfortunately the Camry service and repair
manual I downloaded from CamryStuff.com is for an older 2002 (same
5th generation Camry but the '06 and '05 models are considered
Generation 5.5 --they differ slightly from the 2002 to 2004 cars).
So after reading the CamryStuff .pdf document, I was expecting to torque
a regular drain plug bolt to 36 foot-pounds, but obviously I couldn't
with the Allen wrench (ie, hex? wrench) drain plug. Is there some way
to properly torque an Allen wrench bolt? Does it take a special adapter
fitted to your torque wrench?

I'm concerned I came close to stripping the threads by overtightening
with an unmeasured Allen wrench. If I did come dangerously close to
stripping the threads, might the pan start leaking sometime in the next
few days? Or weeks? Or even months? So far no leaking. Well, I noticed
I did have some leaking after the first Allen wrench tightening, so I
tightened further, and further again. I think I should have waited for
the complete ATF fluid dripping to stop before doing any tightening.
The dripping may have lead to my problem of possibly overtightening and
coming very close to stripping the threads. I waited for only one drip
every 3 seconds, but even that, I think, was too soon to begin tightening.

Anyway, is there some way to check the torque of an Allen wrench drain
plug bolt, or to torque an Allen wrench bolt properly in the first place?

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Old 03 Jul 2009, 12:30 am   #2 (permalink)
Ray O
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Default Re: I changed the Camry's ATF today (added Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF)


"Built_Well" <Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4a4d869f$0$79708$892e0abb@auth.newsreader.oct anews.com...
> Today I did a drain and refill of my transmission pan's Toyota T-IV,
> replacing it with Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF. 3.7 quarts of red T-IV
> drained out and I replaced it with 4 quarts of red M1 Synthetic. The
> extra 1/4 of a quart or 0.30 quarts isn't too much extra, is it?
> Not enough to cause foaming or windage, right? (Not even sure windage
> is an issue in automatic transmissions like windage can be with motor
> oil inside an engine.)
>


1/4 quart is not too much extra and won't cause damage.

> Anyway, the car really likes the M1 ATF so far. True only about
> 50 percent of the car's total ATF capacity is M1. The other 50 percent
> is the factory fill of T-IV (now 25,000 miles old and 3.5 years).
> Maybe it's my imagination, but the car seemed like it was shifting
> a lot better today with the M1 synthetic in it. Or maybe it's just a
> result of having some fresh sauce in the car.
>
> I took a sample of the drained T-IV ATF and will mail it to
> Blackstone Labs tomorrow, just for fun. I don't expect to see any
> problems.
>
> The only thing I didn't much care for during the ATF change was the
> surprise of finding an Allen wrench socket on the transmission pan's
> drain plug. It's not a regular bolt, so I wasn't able to use my trusty
> Craftsman torque wrench to torque the drain plug to 36 foot-pounds.
> This is an '06 Camry, and unfortunately the Camry service and repair
> manual I downloaded from CamryStuff.com is for an older 2002 (same
> 5th generation Camry but the '06 and '05 models are considered
> Generation 5.5 --they differ slightly from the 2002 to 2004 cars).
> So after reading the CamryStuff .pdf document, I was expecting to torque
> a regular drain plug bolt to 36 foot-pounds, but obviously I couldn't
> with the Allen wrench (ie, hex? wrench) drain plug. Is there some way
> to properly torque an Allen wrench bolt? Does it take a special adapter
> fitted to your torque wrench?


Just get the proper size Allen wrench with a 1/2 inch drive or whatever
drive you torque wrench has. It looks like an allen wrench stuck in a
socket.

>
> I'm concerned I came close to stripping the threads by overtightening
> with an unmeasured Allen wrench. If I did come dangerously close to
> stripping the threads, might the pan start leaking sometime in the next
> few days? Or weeks? Or even months? So far no leaking. Well, I noticed
> I did have some leaking after the first Allen wrench tightening, so I
> tightened further, and further again. I think I should have waited for
> the complete ATF fluid dripping to stop before doing any tightening.
> The dripping may have lead to my problem of possibly overtightening and
> coming very close to stripping the threads. I waited for only one drip
> every 3 seconds, but even that, I think, was too soon to begin tightening.
>
> Anyway, is there some way to check the torque of an Allen wrench drain
> plug bolt, or to torque an Allen wrench bolt properly in the first place?
>


With the Allen wrench mounted in a 1/2 inch drive, you can't really measure
how tight the bolt is but you can check to see if it is tightened to at
least 36 foot pounds. To torque the bolt properly in the first place, it
has to be removed.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


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Old 03 Jul 2009, 01:07 am   #3 (permalink)
dsi1
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Default Re: I changed the Camry's ATF today (added Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF)

Ray O wrote:

> With the Allen wrench mounted in a 1/2 inch drive, you can't really measure
> how tight the bolt is but you can check to see if it is tightened to at
> least 36 foot pounds. To torque the bolt properly in the first place, it
> has to be removed.


Why would you not be able to measure the torque of an allen wrench
socket? Why even use a torque wrench?
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Old 03 Jul 2009, 06:03 am   #4 (permalink)
ransley
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Default Re: I changed the Camry's ATF today (added Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF)

On Jul 2, 11:19*pm, Built_Well <Built_Well_Toy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Today I did a drain and refill of my transmission pan's Toyota T-IV,
> replacing it with Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF. *3.7 quarts of red T-IV
> drained out and I replaced it with 4 quarts of red M1 Synthetic. *The
> extra 1/4 of a quart or 0.30 quarts isn't too much extra, is it? *
> Not enough to cause foaming or windage, right? *(Not even sure windage
> is an issue in automatic transmissions like windage can be with motor
> oil inside an engine.)
>
> Anyway, the car really likes the M1 ATF so far. *True only about
> 50 percent of the car's total ATF capacity is M1. *The other 50 percent
> is the factory fill of T-IV (now 25,000 miles old and 3.5 years). *
> Maybe it's my imagination, but the car seemed like it was shifting
> a lot better today with the M1 synthetic in it. *Or maybe it's just a
> result of having some fresh sauce in the car.
>
> I took a sample of the drained T-IV ATF and will mail it to
> Blackstone Labs tomorrow, just for fun. *I don't expect to see any
> problems.
>
> The only thing I didn't much care for during the ATF change was the
> surprise of finding an Allen wrench socket on the transmission pan's
> drain plug. *It's not a regular bolt, so I wasn't able to use my trusty
> Craftsman torque wrench to torque the drain plug to 36 foot-pounds. *
> This is an '06 Camry, and unfortunately the Camry service and repair
> manual I downloaded from CamryStuff.com is for an older 2002 (same
> 5th generation Camry but the '06 and '05 models are considered
> Generation 5.5 --they differ slightly from the 2002 to 2004 cars). *
> So after reading the CamryStuff .pdf document, I was expecting to torque
> a regular drain plug bolt to 36 foot-pounds, but obviously I couldn't
> with the Allen wrench (ie, hex? wrench) drain plug. *Is there some way
> to properly torque an Allen wrench bolt? *Does it take a special adapter
> fitted to your torque wrench?
>
> I'm concerned I came close to stripping the threads by overtightening
> with an unmeasured Allen wrench. *If I did come dangerously close to
> stripping the threads, might the pan start leaking sometime in the next
> few days? Or weeks? Or even months? *So far no leaking. *Well, I noticed
> I did have some leaking after the first Allen wrench tightening, so I
> tightened further, and further again. *I think I should have waited for
> the complete ATF fluid dripping to stop before doing any tightening. *
> The dripping may have lead to my problem of possibly overtightening and
> coming very close to stripping the threads. *I waited for only one drip
> every 3 seconds, but even that, I think, was too soon to begin tightening..
>
> Anyway, is there some way to check the torque of an Allen wrench drain
> plug bolt, or to torque an Allen wrench bolt properly in the first place?


Check it hot and idling, Yes 1/2 qt is to much and will make a big
difference, lower it , it will put less pressure on seals and shift
better and maybe better mpg- less oil, less parts submerged. dont
forget the differential.
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Old 03 Jul 2009, 06:15 am   #5 (permalink)
Sharx35
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Default Re: I changed the Camry's ATF today (added Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF)


"ransley" <Mark_Ransley@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d6d99268-dfd9-4ac3-96d3-8a42f7f023fe@x3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 2, 11:19 pm, Built_Well <Built_Well_Toy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Today I did a drain and refill of my transmission pan's Toyota T-IV,
>> replacing it with Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF. 3.7 quarts of red T-IV
>> drained out and I replaced it with 4 quarts of red M1 Synthetic. The
>> extra 1/4 of a quart or 0.30 quarts isn't too much extra, is it?
>> Not enough to cause foaming or windage, right? (Not even sure windage
>> is an issue in automatic transmissions like windage can be with motor
>> oil inside an engine.)
>>
>> Anyway, the car really likes the M1 ATF so far. True only about
>> 50 percent of the car's total ATF capacity is M1. The other 50 percent
>> is the factory fill of T-IV (now 25,000 miles old and 3.5 years).
>> Maybe it's my imagination, but the car seemed like it was shifting
>> a lot better today with the M1 synthetic in it. Or maybe it's just a
>> result of having some fresh sauce in the car.
>>
>> I took a sample of the drained T-IV ATF and will mail it to
>> Blackstone Labs tomorrow, just for fun. I don't expect to see any
>> problems.
>>
>> The only thing I didn't much care for during the ATF change was the
>> surprise of finding an Allen wrench socket on the transmission pan's
>> drain plug. It's not a regular bolt, so I wasn't able to use my trusty
>> Craftsman torque wrench to torque the drain plug to 36 foot-pounds.
>> This is an '06 Camry, and unfortunately the Camry service and repair
>> manual I downloaded from CamryStuff.com is for an older 2002 (same
>> 5th generation Camry but the '06 and '05 models are considered
>> Generation 5.5 --they differ slightly from the 2002 to 2004 cars).
>> So after reading the CamryStuff .pdf document, I was expecting to torque
>> a regular drain plug bolt to 36 foot-pounds, but obviously I couldn't
>> with the Allen wrench (ie, hex? wrench) drain plug. Is there some way
>> to properly torque an Allen wrench bolt? Does it take a special adapter
>> fitted to your torque wrench?
>>
>> I'm concerned I came close to stripping the threads by overtightening
>> with an unmeasured Allen wrench. If I did come dangerously close to
>> stripping the threads, might the pan start leaking sometime in the next
>> few days? Or weeks? Or even months? So far no leaking. Well, I noticed
>> I did have some leaking after the first Allen wrench tightening, so I
>> tightened further, and further again. I think I should have waited for
>> the complete ATF fluid dripping to stop before doing any tightening.
>> The dripping may have lead to my problem of possibly overtightening and
>> coming very close to stripping the threads. I waited for only one drip
>> every 3 seconds, but even that, I think, was too soon to begin
>> tightening.
>>
>> Anyway, is there some way to check the torque of an Allen wrench drain
>> plug bolt, or to torque an Allen wrench bolt properly in the first place?

>
> Check it hot and idling, Yes 1/2 qt is to much and will make a big
> difference, lower it , it will put less pressure on seals and shift
> better and maybe better mpg- less oil, less parts submerged. dont
> forget the differential.


Hot and idling, yes, of course. On a level surface, naturally. But in what
gear--park?? neutral??



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Old 03 Jul 2009, 06:34 am   #6 (permalink)
MCL
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Default Re: I changed the Camry's ATF today (added Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF)

For those rare occassions that I need a hex type socket; I cut about an inch
off the long side of the allen wrench & then use the proper size socket to
loosen or tighten. I use one setup like that for my GM brake calipers &
another for my Camry tranny.


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Old 03 Jul 2009, 10:15 am   #7 (permalink)
Ray O
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Default Re: I changed the Camry's ATF today (added Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF)


"dsi1" <dsi1@spamnet.com> wrote in message
news:heh3m.2291$dd4.957@newsfe10.iad...
> Ray O wrote:
>
>> With the Allen wrench mounted in a 1/2 inch drive, you can't really
>> measure how tight the bolt is but you can check to see if it is tightened
>> to at least 36 foot pounds. To torque the bolt properly in the first
>> place, it has to be removed.

>
> Why would you not be able to measure the torque of an allen wrench socket?
> Why even use a torque wrench?


My statement was worded poorly. Regardless of the type of drive system a
fastener has, whether it has an Allen type head square drive, or hex head,
you can't measure how tight the fastener is, but you can measure how much
torque is takes to tighten the fastener some more. In the OP's situation, I
assumed that the OP has started the engine and the fastener has undergone at
lease one heat-up and cool-down cycle, so the torque needed to move the
fastener is not really an indication of how much it was tightened although
he could tell if it was tightened to at least 36 foot pounds if a torque
wrench set to that figure doesn't move the fastener.

All that said, I would not bother to use a torque wrench in that situation
and just install the plug, but if someone did not have a good feel for how
tight to fasten a drain plug, then a torque wrench might be a good idea.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


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Old 03 Jul 2009, 10:30 am   #8 (permalink)
Ray O
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Default Re: I changed the Camry's ATF today (added Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF)


"ransley" <Mark_Ransley@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d6d99268-dfd9-4ac3-96d3-8a42f7f023fe@x3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 2, 11:19 pm, Built_Well <Built_Well_Toy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Today I did a drain and refill of my transmission pan's Toyota T-IV,
> replacing it with Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF. 3.7 quarts of red T-IV
> drained out and I replaced it with 4 quarts of red M1 Synthetic. The
> extra 1/4 of a quart or 0.30 quarts isn't too much extra, is it?
> Not enough to cause foaming or windage, right? (Not even sure windage
> is an issue in automatic transmissions like windage can be with motor
> oil inside an engine.)
>
> Anyway, the car really likes the M1 ATF so far. True only about
> 50 percent of the car's total ATF capacity is M1. The other 50 percent
> is the factory fill of T-IV (now 25,000 miles old and 3.5 years).
> Maybe it's my imagination, but the car seemed like it was shifting
> a lot better today with the M1 synthetic in it. Or maybe it's just a
> result of having some fresh sauce in the car.
>
> I took a sample of the drained T-IV ATF and will mail it to
> Blackstone Labs tomorrow, just for fun. I don't expect to see any
> problems.
>
> The only thing I didn't much care for during the ATF change was the
> surprise of finding an Allen wrench socket on the transmission pan's
> drain plug. It's not a regular bolt, so I wasn't able to use my trusty
> Craftsman torque wrench to torque the drain plug to 36 foot-pounds.
> This is an '06 Camry, and unfortunately the Camry service and repair
> manual I downloaded from CamryStuff.com is for an older 2002 (same
> 5th generation Camry but the '06 and '05 models are considered
> Generation 5.5 --they differ slightly from the 2002 to 2004 cars).
> So after reading the CamryStuff .pdf document, I was expecting to torque
> a regular drain plug bolt to 36 foot-pounds, but obviously I couldn't
> with the Allen wrench (ie, hex? wrench) drain plug. Is there some way
> to properly torque an Allen wrench bolt? Does it take a special adapter
> fitted to your torque wrench?
>
> I'm concerned I came close to stripping the threads by overtightening
> with an unmeasured Allen wrench. If I did come dangerously close to
> stripping the threads, might the pan start leaking sometime in the next
> few days? Or weeks? Or even months? So far no leaking. Well, I noticed
> I did have some leaking after the first Allen wrench tightening, so I
> tightened further, and further again. I think I should have waited for
> the complete ATF fluid dripping to stop before doing any tightening.
> The dripping may have lead to my problem of possibly overtightening and
> coming very close to stripping the threads. I waited for only one drip
> every 3 seconds, but even that, I think, was too soon to begin tightening.
>
> Anyway, is there some way to check the torque of an Allen wrench drain
> plug bolt, or to torque an Allen wrench bolt properly in the first place?


Check it hot and idling, Yes 1/2 qt is to much and will make a big
difference, lower it , it will put less pressure on seals and shift
better and maybe better mpg- less oil, less parts submerged. dont
forget the differential.

*****************
The transmission fluid pan is only a reservoir and is not pressurized, so
the additional pressure on the transmission pan gasket is only from any
additional oil, which in the case of 1/4 quart would be negligible. The
parts of an automatic transmission that are "submerged" need ATF to
lubricate, develop line pressure, or otherwise function and get their ATF
because the transmission pump picks up the needed amount of fluid from the
reservoir and circulates it throughout the transmission.

--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


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Old 03 Jul 2009, 11:37 am   #9 (permalink)
HLS
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Default Re: I changed the Camry's ATF today (added Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF)


"Ray O" <rokigawa@NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote in message
news:h2l8e5$b8r$2@news.eternal-
> The transmission fluid pan is only a reservoir and is not pressurized, so
> the additional pressure on the transmission pan gasket is only from any
> additional oil, which in the case of 1/4 quart would be negligible. The
> parts of an automatic transmission that are "submerged" need ATF to
> lubricate, develop line pressure, or otherwise function and get their ATF
> because the transmission pump picks up the needed amount of fluid from the
> reservoir and circulates it throughout the transmission.
>
> --
>
> Ray O


I mostly agree.. A quarter of a quart would not raise the level in the
pan/tranny much at all.
I dont think it would be any problem at that level.
> (correct punctuation to reply)
>


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Old 03 Jul 2009, 11:57 am   #10 (permalink)
Toyota MDT in MO
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Default Re: I changed the Camry's ATF today (added Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF)

ransley wrote:
> On Jul 2, 11:19 pm, Built_Well <Built_Well_Toy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Today I did a drain and refill of my transmission pan's Toyota T-IV,
>> replacing it with Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF. 3.7 quarts of red T-IV
>> drained out and I replaced it with 4 quarts of red M1 Synthetic. The
>> extra 1/4 of a quart or 0.30 quarts isn't too much extra, is it?
>> Not enough to cause foaming or windage, right? (Not even sure windage
>> is an issue in automatic transmissions like windage can be with motor
>> oil inside an engine.)
>>
>> Anyway, the car really likes the M1 ATF so far. True only about
>> 50 percent of the car's total ATF capacity is M1. The other 50 percent
>> is the factory fill of T-IV (now 25,000 miles old and 3.5 years).
>> Maybe it's my imagination, but the car seemed like it was shifting
>> a lot better today with the M1 synthetic in it. Or maybe it's just a
>> result of having some fresh sauce in the car.
>>
>> I took a sample of the drained T-IV ATF and will mail it to
>> Blackstone Labs tomorrow, just for fun. I don't expect to see any
>> problems.
>>
>> The only thing I didn't much care for during the ATF change was the
>> surprise of finding an Allen wrench socket on the transmission pan's
>> drain plug. It's not a regular bolt, so I wasn't able to use my trusty
>> Craftsman torque wrench to torque the drain plug to 36 foot-pounds.
>> This is an '06 Camry, and unfortunately the Camry service and repair
>> manual I downloaded from CamryStuff.com is for an older 2002 (same
>> 5th generation Camry but the '06 and '05 models are considered
>> Generation 5.5 --they differ slightly from the 2002 to 2004 cars).
>> So after reading the CamryStuff .pdf document, I was expecting to torque
>> a regular drain plug bolt to 36 foot-pounds, but obviously I couldn't
>> with the Allen wrench (ie, hex? wrench) drain plug. Is there some way
>> to properly torque an Allen wrench bolt? Does it take a special adapter
>> fitted to your torque wrench?
>>
>> I'm concerned I came close to stripping the threads by overtightening
>> with an unmeasured Allen wrench. If I did come dangerously close to
>> stripping the threads, might the pan start leaking sometime in the next
>> few days? Or weeks? Or even months? So far no leaking. Well, I noticed
>> I did have some leaking after the first Allen wrench tightening, so I
>> tightened further, and further again. I think I should have waited for
>> the complete ATF fluid dripping to stop before doing any tightening.
>> The dripping may have lead to my problem of possibly overtightening and
>> coming very close to stripping the threads. I waited for only one drip
>> every 3 seconds, but even that, I think, was too soon to begin tightening.
>>
>> Anyway, is there some way to check the torque of an Allen wrench drain
>> plug bolt, or to torque an Allen wrench bolt properly in the first place?
>>

>
> Check it hot and idling, Yes 1/2 qt is to much and will make a big
> difference, lower it , it will put less pressure on seals and shift
> better and maybe better mpg- less oil, less parts submerged. dont
> forget the differential.
>


How will it "put less pressure on seals" if the level is reduced 1/2
quart to normal?

How does one go about remembering the differential on a U240E? Any
extra steps you might want to share with the OP?

--
Toyota MDT in MO
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