Toyota stalling may be linked to on-board computers, electroniccontrol module

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Old 06 Dec 2009, 12:02 pm   #1 (permalink)
john
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Default Toyota stalling may be linked to on-board computers, electroniccontrol module

Yeah, I think all the recent problems are likely computer related.
These ECUs just aren't up to their tasks.

The problem, according to NHTSA, may be linked to onboard computers.
"The agency indicates
the problem could be linked to the onboard computer, or electronic
control module. "


http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...-Toyota-models
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Old 06 Dec 2009, 12:15 pm   #2 (permalink)
dr_jeff
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Default Re: Toyota stalling may be linked to on-board computers, electroniccontrol module

john wrote:
> Yeah, I think all the recent problems are likely computer related.
> These ECUs just aren't up to their tasks.


Really. The ECUs definitely have problems, but please show us a better
way that doesn't involve electronics. Carbs worked well, but wasted
fuel. Without electronics, are air would be dirtier, we would use more fuel.

Please suggest a better way.

Jeff

> The problem, according to NHTSA, may be linked to onboard computers.
> "The agency indicates
> the problem could be linked to the onboard computer, or electronic
> control module. "
>
>
> http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...-Toyota-models

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Old 06 Dec 2009, 12:33 pm   #3 (permalink)
FatterDumber& Happier Moe
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Default Re: Toyota stalling may be linked to on-board computers, electroniccontrol module

dr_jeff wrote:
> john wrote:
>> Yeah, I think all the recent problems are likely computer related.
>> These ECUs just aren't up to their tasks.

>
> Really. The ECUs definitely have problems, but please show us a better
> way that doesn't involve electronics. Carbs worked well, but wasted
> fuel. Without electronics, are air would be dirtier, we would use more
> fuel.
>
> Please suggest a better way.
>
> Jeff
>
>> The problem, according to NHTSA, may be linked to onboard computers.
>> "The agency indicates
>> the problem could be linked to the onboard computer, or electronic
>> control module. "
>>
>>
>> http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...-Toyota-models
>>


Carburetors worked well? How soon we forget. Hard starting in the
winter, flooding in the summer, the cars had to run over rich when cold
so they would stay running, sticking chokes, worn accelerator pumps,
carburetor kits, adjusting idle speed and mixture, those were the good
old days. Starters seldom made it to 60,000 miles, go back a little
further, points, condensers, tune ups, spark plugs every 10K miles.
Give me the computers and electronics any day, well except for this
electric/electronic steering thing, I'm not so sure about that, but come
to think of it, I wasn't so sure about electronic fuel injection when
it came out.
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Old 06 Dec 2009, 12:38 pm   #4 (permalink)
Ashton Crusher
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Default Re: Toyota stalling may be linked to on-board computers, electronic control module

On Sun, 06 Dec 2009 13:15:34 -0500, dr_jeff <utz@msu.edu> wrote:

>john wrote:
>> Yeah, I think all the recent problems are likely computer related.
>> These ECUs just aren't up to their tasks.

>
>Really. The ECUs definitely have problems, but please show us a better
>way that doesn't involve electronics. Carbs worked well, but wasted
>fuel. Without electronics, are air would be dirtier, we would use more fuel.
>
>Please suggest a better way.
>
>Jeff
>


I didn't read his comments to say ALL ECUs, just the ones in these
vehicles. Most vehicles with ECUs don't have this kind of stalling
problem.
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Old 06 Dec 2009, 12:48 pm   #5 (permalink)
dr_jeff
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Default Re: Toyota stalling may be linked to on-board computers, electroniccontrol module

FatterDumber& Happier Moe wrote:
> dr_jeff wrote:
>> john wrote:
>>> Yeah, I think all the recent problems are likely computer related.
>>> These ECUs just aren't up to their tasks.

>>
>> Really. The ECUs definitely have problems, but please show us a better
>> way that doesn't involve electronics. Carbs worked well, but wasted
>> fuel. Without electronics, are air would be dirtier, we would use more
>> fuel.
>>
>> Please suggest a better way.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>> The problem, according to NHTSA, may be linked to onboard computers.
>>> "The agency indicates
>>> the problem could be linked to the onboard computer, or electronic
>>> control module. "
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...-Toyota-models
>>>

>
> Carburetors worked well? How soon we forget. Hard starting in the
> winter, flooding in the summer, the cars had to run over rich when cold
> so they would stay running, sticking chokes, worn accelerator pumps,
> carburetor kits, adjusting idle speed and mixture, those were the good
> old days. Starters seldom made it to 60,000 miles, go back a little
> further, points, condensers, tune ups, spark plugs every 10K miles. Give
> me the computers and electronics any day, well except for this
> electric/electronic steering thing, I'm not so sure about that, but come
> to think of it, I wasn't so sure about electronic fuel injection when
> it came out.


You made my point exactly. Carbs did work well compared to the
alternatives, though. They were also a pain in the back. And, they
helped me go to college (my dad had an autoparts store). Let's not
forget how the carbs help gas get into the oil, which sold more oil.
And, helped destroy bearings, which was my bread and butter (literally).

Jeff
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Old 06 Dec 2009, 12:51 pm   #6 (permalink)
Nate Nagel
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Default Re: Toyota stalling may be linked to on-board computers, electroniccontrol module

FatterDumber& Happier Moe wrote:
> dr_jeff wrote:
>> john wrote:
>>> Yeah, I think all the recent problems are likely computer related.
>>> These ECUs just aren't up to their tasks.

>>
>> Really. The ECUs definitely have problems, but please show us a better
>> way that doesn't involve electronics. Carbs worked well, but wasted
>> fuel. Without electronics, are air would be dirtier, we would use more
>> fuel.
>>
>> Please suggest a better way.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>> The problem, according to NHTSA, may be linked to onboard computers.
>>> "The agency indicates
>>> the problem could be linked to the onboard computer, or electronic
>>> control module. "
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...-Toyota-models
>>>

>
> Carburetors worked well? How soon we forget. Hard starting in the
> winter, flooding in the summer, the cars had to run over rich when cold
> so they would stay running, sticking chokes, worn accelerator pumps,
> carburetor kits, adjusting idle speed and mixture, those were the good
> old days. Starters seldom made it to 60,000 miles, go back a little
> further, points, condensers, tune ups, spark plugs every 10K miles. Give
> me the computers and electronics any day, well except for this
> electric/electronic steering thing, I'm not so sure about that, but come
> to think of it, I wasn't so sure about electronic fuel injection when
> it came out.


I have no problem with electronics, I wish they were just a little more
robust.

And I remember carbs too, but I don't remember having all that many
problems with them. Only one that really sucked was the 2bbl Rochester
on my dad's Chevy pickup; eventually replaced it with a Q-jet so it
didn't have to be kitted every year. Like clockwork, about a year after
you kitted it, the float would start sticking to the bottom of the bowl.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
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Old 06 Dec 2009, 03:56 pm   #7 (permalink)
Vic Smith
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Default Re: Toyota stalling may be linked to on-board computers, electronic control module

On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 10:02:25 -0800 (PST), john <johngdole@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Yeah, I think all the recent problems are likely computer related.
>These ECUs just aren't up to their tasks.
>
>The problem, according to NHTSA, may be linked to onboard computers.
>"The agency indicates
>the problem could be linked to the onboard computer, or electronic
>control module. "
>
>
>http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...-Toyota-models


Doesn't seem much worth worrying about. 26 complaints for Corolla and
Matrix?
ECU problems can be very tricky. When it was about 10 years old my
'88 Celebrity went WHAM on the highway. Felt like the trans exploded.
But I didn't notice it even slow down, and all was instantly normal.
Took it to a trans shop the next day.
The trans mech took it for a ride and said there was nothing wrong
with the trans. Suggested the ECU had cut the engine off and it had
instantly restarted, and the torque converter had slammed.
Only thing he could figure from my description.
During the next couple weeks it died a few times at intersections, but
I could easily restart it. One time I came out of a store and it
didn't fire at all.
I didn't have a cell and was thinking about how to call for a tow.
Tried cranking it one last time. Started, ran normal.
Took it to my mech. He and his crew used it for a getter-car with a
scanner hooked up for a week. Nothing. I got tired of driving 40
miles in my wife's '85 Cav to get us both to work at opposite sides of
the city, and took the Celebrity back.
My mech Wayne wouldn't take a dime, said he'd see me later.
It had turned cold - October - the day I took the car to Wayne.
Didn't have another problem.
In April or May the next year I came out of the house on the first
really warm day, and it wouldn't fire. Had it towed to Wayne.
New ECU fixed it.
A couple years before that the '85 Cav had wanted to idle at 2 grand,
whenever it decided to. First car I had that I couldn't diagnose.
Knew squat about electronics. I was about to throw a throttle body
at it, but it died on my wife as she was coming home down Milwaukee
Avenue. Pretty heavy traffic and as soon as it stopped a couple guys
were there pushing it into the shop it had stopped next to.
That's how we found Wayne. Lucky. He did all my work for a few
years, as I was too busy and frankly didn't want to learn how all the
new-fangled stuff worked.
Wasn't cheap, but didn't rape you.
Best part is he fixed everything just once, and would never throw a
part at a car. Good find.
That was the ECU on the '85 Cav too, causing the high idle.
It was about a $200 job each time.

--Vic
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Old 06 Dec 2009, 05:44 pm   #8 (permalink)
hls
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Default Re: Toyota stalling may be linked to on-board computers, electronic control module


"Ashton Crusher" <demi@moore.net> wrote in message
>
> I didn't read his comments to say ALL ECUs, just the ones in these
> vehicles. Most vehicles with ECUs don't have this kind of stalling
> problem.


I have seen tons of problems with a range of ECU's, particularly GM.
GM had a run of ECU's that were very dangerous in that they would
stall (die) under full speed freeway conditions if you lifted your foot from
the pedal.

I fought the f***ing dealership for a long time on this, and they didnt
even read the bulletins.

Finally, I got to the right guy at GM and he roasted the dealer over the
coals, but got me a new ECU under warranty which cured the problem.

We went electronic because it was powerful and simple. There were
certainly mechanical systems, even with FI. Fluids computers might have
been able to take some of the trouble out of the system.

Military standards for components would have helped insure that the damn
ECUs would work longer than a string of Christmas lights. But this might
have
been very expensive. Adequate quality would not have been expensive and
could
have removed most of the problems.

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Old 06 Dec 2009, 06:06 pm   #9 (permalink)
hls
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Default Re: Toyota stalling may be linked to on-board computers, electronic control module


"hls" <hls@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:v76dnf27TfF73IHWnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>

.. Fluids computers might have
> been able to take some of the trouble out of the system.


Should have been"fluidic computers".

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Old 06 Dec 2009, 06:07 pm   #10 (permalink)
dr_jeff
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Default Re: Toyota stalling may be linked to on-board computers, electroniccontrol module

hls wrote:
>
> "hls" <hls@nospam.nix> wrote in message
> news:v76dnf27TfF73IHWnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>>

> . Fluids computers might have
>> been able to take some of the trouble out of the system.

>
> Should have been"fluidic computers".


What do you mean by "fluidic computers"?
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