Sticking Accelerator Built to Toyota Specification. Honda, Nissan,Mitsubishi Pedals Not Affected.

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Old 28 Jan 2010, 04:51 pm   #1 (permalink)
Hachiroku ハチロク
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Default Re: Sticking Accelerator Built to Toyota Specification. Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi Pedals Not Affected.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 17:44:52 -0800, john wrote:

> http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...oID=2010762266


Yeah...we know



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Old 28 Jan 2010, 04:53 pm   #2 (permalink)
Hachiroku ハチロク
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Default Re: Sticking Accelerator Built to Toyota Specification. Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi Pedals Not Affected.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 17:47:00 -0800, john wrote:

> I think <SLAP!>


I think we're getting tired of your sour-grapes bullshit.

Kiss my ass. Toyota has ONE MAJOR RECALL and you're all over it. How many
has GM had in the past 20 years?

Pound sand.


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Old 28 Jan 2010, 05:20 pm   #3 (permalink)
Hachiroku ハチロク
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Default Re: Sticking Accelerator Built to Toyota Specification. Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi Pedals Not Affected.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 21:27:58 -0600, Vic Smith wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 22:12:53 -0500, dr_jeff <utz@msu.edu> wrote:
>
>
>>Tell that to the pilot of the Airbus A-320.
>>
>>I have to disagree that fly-by-wire is too flaky or that microchips are
>>too flaky. There are certainly bugs, but those bugs will be worked out.
>>Computers can react far faster than humans. Computers control a lot of
>>critical function; car engines are just one of them.
>>
>>Jeff

>
> I'd have to see the cost and quality of the A-320 control chips, and their
> engineering and programming to buy that comparison. For all I know the
> chips controlling the acceleration in drive-by-wire cars are sourced from
> the same outfit making chips for Mr Coffee.
>
> --Vic


Same aerospace mfgr as in the other post:

We made fuel controls for Pratt and Whitney and, where spec'd Rolls Royce.
This was a pretty amaziing piece of equipment for the early 1980's. It was
two complete engine controls married together in one big housing; Channel
A and Channel B. Exact identical units.

One day I had nothing to do, and a friend of mine gave me the Theory of
Operation manual, about as thick as a bible. Reading through it, I
discovered this:

It was a dual-redundant engine control. What this means is that there is
an A channel and a B channel. However, on a failure of a component in the
main channel (A), operation did not swicth over to the B channel. Instead,
a supervisory module detected the failed component and switched operation
of that FUNCTION to the B channel. Back then they called the system RAM
the 'scratch pad', so if a failure were detected in the scracth pad of
channel A, scratch pad operation was transferred to the scratch pad of
channel B. So you still had A channel operating primarily with one
function of channel B.

It took a massive failure of channel A, or three separate failures to
cause control to pass entirely to channel B.

In case of a massive failure of the engine control where neither channel A
nor channel B were operational, the engine was sent into "limp mode" and
fuel delivery was performed by a fail-safe valve that opened on failure of
the engine control. This was a hammer-head unit with rudimentary fuel
regulation; it basically dumped fuel into the engine in a failure mode
metering method that kept the engine running as long as there was fuel in
order to make it to the nearest landing field.

I would imagine Airbus and the Boeing models employing Fly By Wire have
backups of the backups.



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Old 28 Jan 2010, 07:41 pm   #4 (permalink)
john
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Default Sticking Accelerator Built to Toyota Specification. Honda, Nissan,Mitsubishi Pedals Not Affected.

Some kind of specification that is. Let's see if they'll try to blame
it on CTS.

"CTS made the pedals at issue. But Khilnani stressed several times to
Wall Street analysts that the pedals CTS made for Toyota were to
their specifications. Pedals that CTS makes for other automakers,
including Honda, Nissan, Chrysler and Mitsubishi, he said, are based
on different designs for each automaker. "

http://www.freep.com/article/2010012...00128033/1331/

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Old 28 Jan 2010, 07:44 pm   #5 (permalink)
hls
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Default Re: Sticking Accelerator Built to Toyota Specification. Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi Pedals Not Affected.


"john" <johngdole@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5c581e0b-de16-4265-950e-4c3235871e23@k18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Some kind of specification that is. Let's see if they'll try to blame
it on CTS.
*********
It will be interesting to see. We have had people post here that the pedals
did not actually stick...if this is the case, the problem (if there really
is one)
has to be the interface or electronic control unit, not any mechanical
device.

Time will tell

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Old 28 Jan 2010, 07:44 pm   #6 (permalink)
john
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Default Re: Sticking Accelerator Built to Toyota Specification. Honda,Nissan, Mitsubishi Pedals Not Affected.

So is this a case of Toyota design defect?
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Old 28 Jan 2010, 07:45 pm   #7 (permalink)
Not Me
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Default Re: Sticking Accelerator Built to Toyota Specification. Honda, Nissan,Mitsubishi Pedals Not Affected.

john wrote:
> Some kind of specification that is. Let's see if they'll try to blame
> it on CTS.
>
> "CTS made the pedals at issue. But Khilnani stressed several times to
> Wall Street analysts that the pedals CTS made for Toyota were to
> their specifications. Pedals that CTS makes for other automakers,
> including Honda, Nissan, Chrysler and Mitsubishi, he said, are based
> on different designs for each automaker. "
>
> http://www.freep.com/article/2010012...00128033/1331/
>



Mullaly indicated the Ford Transit van also uses a Chinese CTS JV
produced pedal of a different design.
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Old 28 Jan 2010, 07:47 pm   #8 (permalink)
john
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Default Re: Sticking Accelerator Built to Toyota Specification. Honda,Nissan, Mitsubishi Pedals Not Affected.

I think there may be multiple causes to this sudden acceleration
problem. I do believe electronics is a primary suspect, according to
the Alberto lawsuit.


On Jan 28, 5:44*pm, "hls" <h...@nospam.nix> wrote:
> It will be interesting to see. *We have had people post here that the pedals
> did not actually stick...if this is the case, the problem (if there really
> is one)
> has to be the interface or electronic control unit, not any mechanical
> device.
>
> Time will tell


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Old 28 Jan 2010, 09:02 pm   #9 (permalink)
Vic Smith
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Default Re: Sticking Accelerator Built to Toyota Specification. Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi Pedals Not Affected.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 17:47:00 -0800 (PST), john <johngdole@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I think there may be multiple causes to this sudden acceleration
>problem. I do believe electronics is a primary suspect, according to
>the Alberto lawsuit.
>

Probably. I'm a bit surprised by all this concentration on "gas
pedals." I suspect that gas pedals and linkage aren't too
mind-boggling. They've been around a long time.
I had a an '85 throttle body 2.0 Cavalier that would "unintentionally
accelerate." Wife was using it for her commute and complained about
it, but I shrugged it off until it happened to me when I was driving
it. Had to keep it braked hard at a stop, and it would accelerate to
about 40 mph when you released the brake. It came and went.
I was going to throw a new throttle body on it but the car just died
on her on the way home from work the next day.
Right in front of a garage, and a couple guys pushed her off the
street and into the garage. That's how I found my mech, just in time,
as I knew nothing about the new electronic controls then.
New ECU fixed it.
There's stuff going on with modern cars that is *really* hard to
diagnose. That's why I don't like drive-by-wire, and ignition key
lockouts or interference with a mechanical switch engine shutdown.
Fail-safe can't be controlled by microchips. They are too flaky.

--Vic

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Old 28 Jan 2010, 09:12 pm   #10 (permalink)
dr_jeff
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Default Re: Sticking Accelerator Built to Toyota Specification. Honda, Nissan,Mitsubishi Pedals Not Affected.

Vic Smith wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 17:47:00 -0800 (PST), john <johngdole@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I think there may be multiple causes to this sudden acceleration
>> problem. I do believe electronics is a primary suspect, according to
>> the Alberto lawsuit.
>>

> Probably. I'm a bit surprised by all this concentration on "gas
> pedals." I suspect that gas pedals and linkage aren't too
> mind-boggling. They've been around a long time.
> I had a an '85 throttle body 2.0 Cavalier that would "unintentionally
> accelerate." Wife was using it for her commute and complained about
> it, but I shrugged it off until it happened to me when I was driving
> it. Had to keep it braked hard at a stop, and it would accelerate to
> about 40 mph when you released the brake. It came and went.
> I was going to throw a new throttle body on it but the car just died
> on her on the way home from work the next day.
> Right in front of a garage, and a couple guys pushed her off the
> street and into the garage. That's how I found my mech, just in time,
> as I knew nothing about the new electronic controls then.
> New ECU fixed it.
> There's stuff going on with modern cars that is *really* hard to
> diagnose. That's why I don't like drive-by-wire, and ignition key
> lockouts or interference with a mechanical switch engine shutdown.
> Fail-safe can't be controlled by microchips. They are too flaky.
>
> --Vic
>


Tell that to the pilot of the Airbus A-320.

I have to disagree that fly-by-wire is too flaky or that microchips are
too flaky. There are certainly bugs, but those bugs will be worked out.
Computers can react far faster than humans. Computers control a lot of
critical function; car engines are just one of them.

Jeff
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