Front and rear windows hit each other.

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Old 08 Jan 2012, 12:59 am   #1 (permalink)
micky
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Default Front and rear windows hit each other.

Warm weather today reminded me of a problem with my 2000 Toyota Solara
convertible.

When I drive with the top down and the windows up, the rear and front
side windows bump against each other making an annoying clicking
noise, on both sides.

Any experience getting rid of this noise? I admit I haven't tried
much, but this was the last warm day for a while, and I want to get
ideas before the next warm day. I have tried bending the rear window
rubber strip a little, at the top end, and that didn't help, and I
tried lowering the front windows a little, and that didn't help.
Lowering the back windows might have helped -- not sure -- , but I
really don't want to have to do t hat, and it will increase noise and
cold air. .

I've had 6 prior convrtibles, and have always driven a lot with the
windows up, to keep out the trraffic noise in the city, and to keep
warm when it's cold out. Often I use the heater in the late fall and
early spring and at night.

None of the others, 65 and 67 Pontiac Catalinas, 73 Buick Centuriion,
and 84, 88, and 95 Chrysler LeBarons made any window noise even on
rough roads and gravel roads and roads with chuckholes.

But this makes the noise even on smooth roads when I go over the
slightest bumps.

Thanks for any help you can give.
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Old 08 Jan 2012, 02:01 am   #2 (permalink)
Paul in Houston TX
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Default Re: Front and rear windows hit each other.

micky wrote:
> Warm weather today reminded me of a problem with my 2000 Toyota Solara
> convertible.
>
> When I drive with the top down and the windows up, the rear and front
> side windows bump against each other making an annoying clicking
> noise, on both sides.
>
> Any experience getting rid of this noise? I admit I haven't tried
> much, but this was the last warm day for a while, and I want to get
> ideas before the next warm day. I have tried bending the rear window
> rubber strip a little, at the top end, and that didn't help, and I
> tried lowering the front windows a little, and that didn't help.
> Lowering the back windows might have helped -- not sure -- , but I
> really don't want to have to do t hat, and it will increase noise and
> cold air. .
>
> I've had 6 prior convrtibles, and have always driven a lot with the
> windows up, to keep out the trraffic noise in the city, and to keep
> warm when it's cold out. Often I use the heater in the late fall and
> early spring and at night.
>
> None of the others, 65 and 67 Pontiac Catalinas, 73 Buick Centuriion,
> and 84, 88, and 95 Chrysler LeBarons made any window noise even on
> rough roads and gravel roads and roads with chuckholes.
>
> But this makes the noise even on smooth roads when I go over the
> slightest bumps.
>
> Thanks for any help you can give.


You should be able to adjust them for a tighter fit, although
it won't be easy. Pull the inner panels off and there are
slotted adjustments. Loosen the bolts, move the window, and
tighten back up. Not too tight though... they have to
move up and down and fit the top without burning out the motors.
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Old 07 Mar 2012, 06:14 am   #3 (permalink)
micky
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Default Re: Front and rear windows hit each other.

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 02:01:55 -0600, Paul in Houston TX
<Paul@Houston.com> wrote:

>micky wrote:
>> Warm weather today reminded me of a problem with my 2000 Toyota Solara
>> convertible.
>>
>> When I drive with the top down and the windows up, the rear and front
>> side windows bump against each other making an annoying clicking
>> noise, on both sides.
>>
>> Any experience getting rid of this noise? I admit I haven't tried
>> much, but this was the last warm day for a while, and I want to get
>> ideas before the next warm day. I have tried bending the rear window
>> rubber strip a little, at the top end, and that didn't help, and I
>> tried lowering the front windows a little, and that didn't help.
>> Lowering the back windows might have helped -- not sure -- , but I
>> really don't want to have to do t hat, and it will increase noise and
>> cold air. .
>>
>> I've had 6 prior convrtibles, and have always driven a lot with the
>> windows up, to keep out the trraffic noise in the city, and to keep
>> warm when it's cold out. Often I use the heater in the late fall and
>> early spring and at night.
>>
>> None of the others, 65 and 67 Pontiac Catalinas, 73 Buick Centuriion,
>> and 84, 88, and 95 Chrysler LeBarons made any window noise even on
>> rough roads and gravel roads and roads with chuckholes.
>>
>> But this makes the noise even on smooth roads when I go over the
>> slightest bumps.
>>
>> Thanks for any help you can give.

>
>You should be able to adjust them for a tighter fit, although
>it won't be easy. Pull the inner panels off and there are
>slotted adjustments. Loosen the bolts, move the window, and
>tighten back up. Not too tight though... they have to
>move up and down and fit the top without burning out the motors.


Thanks. They don't look like they need adjustment. The front window
is parallel to the rear window. They come up to the same height.

They overlap the right amount.

The windows are not loose.

The problem is that they, maybe just the rear or just the front
windows, still move, left and right I think, when going over bumps,
and the front and back bump into each other.

I have a friend of a friend who works for Toyota, and I'll also talk
to anotherr dealer without him, and I'll also have a friend ride with
me and try to figure out what is moving, and I expect I'll find it,
but I'm not optimistic about stopping the motion. There is a lot of
leverage from the height of the heavy windows.

Never had this before. Not a problem in the winter, but expecting
more annoyance and disappointment in the spring.

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Old 07 Mar 2012, 12:04 pm   #4 (permalink)
Steve W.
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Default Re: Front and rear windows hit each other.

micky wrote:
> Thanks. They don't look like they need adjustment. The front window
> is parallel to the rear window. They come up to the same height.
>
> They overlap the right amount.
>
> The windows are not loose.
>
> The problem is that they, maybe just the rear or just the front
> windows, still move, left and right I think, when going over bumps,
> and the front and back bump into each other.
>
> I have a friend of a friend who works for Toyota, and I'll also talk
> to anotherr dealer without him, and I'll also have a friend ride with
> me and try to figure out what is moving, and I expect I'll find it,
> but I'm not optimistic about stopping the motion. There is a lot of
> leverage from the height of the heavy windows.
>
> Never had this before. Not a problem in the winter, but expecting
> more annoyance and disappointment in the spring.
>


Looking at the design there isn't anything you can do. The glass is
unsupported and that lets it flop around.
The new cars are made very light and this causes the problem. The old
vehicles you list had thicker stiffer glass, stronger tracks and stiffer
larger guides.
I'm betting the solution you're told is "put the glass down when you put
the top down, it's a convertible"

--
Steve W.
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Old 07 Mar 2012, 04:06 pm   #5 (permalink)
micky
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Default Re: Front and rear windows hit each other.

On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 13:04:07 -0500, "Steve W." <csr684@NOTyahoo.com>
wrote:

>micky wrote:
>> Thanks. They don't look like they need adjustment. The front window
>> is parallel to the rear window. They come up to the same height.
>>
>> They overlap the right amount.
>>
>> The windows are not loose.
>>
>> The problem is that they, maybe just the rear or just the front
>> windows, still move, left and right I think, when going over bumps,
>> and the front and back bump into each other.
>>
>> I have a friend of a friend who works for Toyota, and I'll also talk
>> to anotherr dealer without him, and I'll also have a friend ride with
>> me and try to figure out what is moving, and I expect I'll find it,
>> but I'm not optimistic about stopping the motion. There is a lot of
>> leverage from the height of the heavy windows.
>>
>> Never had this before. Not a problem in the winter, but expecting
>> more annoyance and disappointment in the spring.
>>

>
>Looking at the design there isn't anything you can do. The glass is
>unsupported and that lets it flop around.
>The new cars are made very light and this causes the problem. The old
>vehicles you list had thicker stiffer glass, stronger tracks and stiffer
>larger guides.


Do you think a Sebring would be more like this Solara, or more like
the LeBarons that preceded the Sebring?

>I'm betting the solution you're told is "put the glass down when you put
>the top down, it's a convertible"


Thanks for replying That is really bad. I hope they don't have nerve
enough to say that. I did put the windows down more when I started,
iirc, but it's probably when I started listening to talk radio** that
I needed more silence to hear what was said. Also in the spring and
fall, it's cold without the windows up.

It sounds like this project will be more difficult than the others on
my list. I'll have to start sooner than I was planning.

I will talk to Toyota first, but there are many ways to skin a cat. A
bracket that goes between the rubber strip and the front window, that
includes a spacer, to force the windows apart, so they can't bounce
apart more, might work. Maybe I could attach it to groove that holds
the rubber strip, so it folds out when needed.

This means I have to find and defeat whatever lowers the rear windows
when the top goes up or down. I wish the factory wiring diagrams I
bought were better. They don't include everything (They don't include
the circuit that keeps the top from going up or down when the car is
moving more than 2 mph, On my previous 6 cars, GM and Chrysler, every
wire was shown) , but I can probably find it, even if ti takes longer
without a diagram. What a pain.


I've also noticed that the arlarm remote, both of them, only work to
about 20 feet. The after-market alarm I installed in my other cars
was good for 150 feet, and I could be in my house and turn the alarm
on if I forgot.

Plua with the alarm I installed, which was bought before this car was
made, I coudl arm the alarm before the last door was shut. It beeped
differently to remind me a door was open, but after I filled my arms
with stuff and pushed the door shut with my backside, the alarm fully
armed in 15 seconds. This alarm won't arm at all until the doors are
shut, so sometimes I have to lay things down, arm the alarm, and pick
the things back up.

Plus the things I listed months ago.

I couldn't have found all this out in a test drive, and I don't think
they rent this model around here. Darn.

Thanks again.

**NPR and C-Span, not AM talk
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Old 13 Mar 2012, 08:50 am   #6 (permalink)
N8N
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Default Re: Front and rear windows hit each other.

On Mar 7, 8:14*am, micky <NONONOmis...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 02:01:55 -0600, Paul in Houston TX
>
>
>
>
>
> <P...@Houston.com> wrote:
> >micky wrote:
> >> Warm weather today reminded me of a problem with my 2000 Toyota Solara
> >> convertible.

>
> >> When I drive with the top down and the windows up, the rear and front
> >> side windows bump against each other making an annoying clicking
> >> noise, on both sides.

>
> >> Any experience getting rid of this noise? * I admit I haven't tried
> >> much, but this was the last warm day for a while, and I want *to get
> >> ideas before the next warm day. * I have tried bending the rear window
> >> rubber strip a little, at the top end, and that didn't help, and I
> >> tried lowering the front windows a little, and that didn't help.
> >> Lowering the back windows might have helped -- not sure -- , but I
> >> really don't want to have to do t hat, and it will increase noise and
> >> cold air. .

>
> >> I've had 6 prior convrtibles, and have always driven a lot with the
> >> windows up, to keep out the trraffic noise in the city, and to keep
> >> warm when it's cold out. *Often I use the heater in the late fall and
> >> early spring and at night.

>
> >> None of the others, 65 and 67 Pontiac Catalinas, 73 Buick Centuriion,
> >> and 84, 88, and 95 Chrysler LeBarons made any window noise even on
> >> rough roads and gravel roads and roads with chuckholes.

>
> >> But this makes the noise even on smooth roads when I go over the
> >> slightest bumps.

>
> >> Thanks for any help you can give.

>
> >You should be able to adjust them for a tighter fit, although
> >it won't be easy. *Pull the inner panels off and there are
> >slotted adjustments. *Loosen the bolts, move the window, and
> >tighten back up. *Not too tight though... they have to
> >move up and down and fit the top without burning out the motors.

>
> Thanks. *They don't look like they need adjustment. The front window
> is parallel to the rear window. *They come up to the same height.
>
> They overlap the right amount.
>
> The windows are not loose.
>
> The problem is that they, maybe just the rear or just the front
> windows, still move, left and right I think, when going over bumps,
> and the front and back bump into each other.
>
> I have a friend of a friend who works for Toyota, and I'll also talk
> to anotherr dealer without him, *and I'll also have a friend ride with
> me and try to figure out what is moving, and I expect I'll find it,
> but I'm not optimistic about stopping the motion. *There is a lot of
> leverage from the height of the heavy windows.
>
> Never had this before. *Not a problem in the winter, but expecting
> more annoyance and disappointment in the spring.


So they don't do this with the top up? This says to me that the top
is actually adding rigidity to the chassis. If you insist on driving
with the top down but windows up (I can't say as I understand that,
but whatever floats your boat) you might need to add some kind of
chassis stiffening brace if such is available for your vehicle.
Typically those are things that are added to sporty-type cars and/or
off-roaders, not sure if such is made for a Solara.

nate
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Old 13 Mar 2012, 03:09 pm   #7 (permalink)
Brent
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Default Re: Front and rear windows hit each other.

On 2012-03-13, N8N <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 7, 8:14*am, micky <NONONOmis...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 02:01:55 -0600, Paul in Houston TX
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <P...@Houston.com> wrote:
>> >micky wrote:
>> >> Warm weather today reminded me of a problem with my 2000 Toyota Solara
>> >> convertible.

>>
>> >> When I drive with the top down and the windows up, the rear and front
>> >> side windows bump against each other making an annoying clicking
>> >> noise, on both sides.

>>
>> >> Any experience getting rid of this noise? * I admit I haven't tried
>> >> much, but this was the last warm day for a while, and I want *to get
>> >> ideas before the next warm day. * I have tried bending the rear window
>> >> rubber strip a little, at the top end, and that didn't help, and I
>> >> tried lowering the front windows a little, and that didn't help.
>> >> Lowering the back windows might have helped -- not sure -- , but I
>> >> really don't want to have to do t hat, and it will increase noise and
>> >> cold air. .

>>
>> >> I've had 6 prior convrtibles, and have always driven a lot with the
>> >> windows up, to keep out the trraffic noise in the city, and to keep
>> >> warm when it's cold out. *Often I use the heater in the late fall and
>> >> early spring and at night.

>>
>> >> None of the others, 65 and 67 Pontiac Catalinas, 73 Buick Centuriion,
>> >> and 84, 88, and 95 Chrysler LeBarons made any window noise even on
>> >> rough roads and gravel roads and roads with chuckholes.

>>
>> >> But this makes the noise even on smooth roads when I go over the
>> >> slightest bumps.

>>
>> >> Thanks for any help you can give.

>>
>> >You should be able to adjust them for a tighter fit, although
>> >it won't be easy. *Pull the inner panels off and there are
>> >slotted adjustments. *Loosen the bolts, move the window, and
>> >tighten back up. *Not too tight though... they have to
>> >move up and down and fit the top without burning out the motors.

>>
>> Thanks. *They don't look like they need adjustment. The front window
>> is parallel to the rear window. *They come up to the same height.
>>
>> They overlap the right amount.
>>
>> The windows are not loose.
>>
>> The problem is that they, maybe just the rear or just the front
>> windows, still move, left and right I think, when going over bumps,
>> and the front and back bump into each other.
>>
>> I have a friend of a friend who works for Toyota, and I'll also talk
>> to anotherr dealer without him, *and I'll also have a friend ride with
>> me and try to figure out what is moving, and I expect I'll find it,
>> but I'm not optimistic about stopping the motion. *There is a lot of
>> leverage from the height of the heavy windows.
>>
>> Never had this before. *Not a problem in the winter, but expecting
>> more annoyance and disappointment in the spring.

>
> So they don't do this with the top up? This says to me that the top
> is actually adding rigidity to the chassis. If you insist on driving
> with the top down but windows up (I can't say as I understand that,
> but whatever floats your boat) you might need to add some kind of
> chassis stiffening brace if such is available for your vehicle.
> Typically those are things that are added to sporty-type cars and/or
> off-roaders, not sure if such is made for a Solara.


Sub frame connectors. Essentially a steel tube to connect the front and
rear frame rails. Welded in with the top up and the car's weight on the
wheels if the top up condition is what is desired. How the car's
uni-body is loaded when they are welded in will have an effect on the
result.


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Old 13 Mar 2012, 05:42 pm   #8 (permalink)
dsi1
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Default Re: Front and rear windows hit each other.

On 3/13/2012 3:50 AM, N8N wrote:
> On Mar 7, 8:14 am, micky<NONONOmis...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 02:01:55 -0600, Paul in Houston TX
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <P...@Houston.com> wrote:
>>> micky wrote:
>>>> Warm weather today reminded me of a problem with my 2000 Toyota Solara
>>>> convertible.

>>
>>>> When I drive with the top down and the windows up, the rear and front
>>>> side windows bump against each other making an annoying clicking
>>>> noise, on both sides.

>>
>>>> Any experience getting rid of this noise? I admit I haven't tried
>>>> much, but this was the last warm day for a while, and I want to get
>>>> ideas before the next warm day. I have tried bending the rear window
>>>> rubber strip a little, at the top end, and that didn't help, and I
>>>> tried lowering the front windows a little, and that didn't help.
>>>> Lowering the back windows might have helped -- not sure -- , but I
>>>> really don't want to have to do t hat, and it will increase noise and
>>>> cold air. .

>>
>>>> I've had 6 prior convrtibles, and have always driven a lot with the
>>>> windows up, to keep out the trraffic noise in the city, and to keep
>>>> warm when it's cold out. Often I use the heater in the late fall and
>>>> early spring and at night.

>>
>>>> None of the others, 65 and 67 Pontiac Catalinas, 73 Buick Centuriion,
>>>> and 84, 88, and 95 Chrysler LeBarons made any window noise even on
>>>> rough roads and gravel roads and roads with chuckholes.

>>
>>>> But this makes the noise even on smooth roads when I go over the
>>>> slightest bumps.

>>
>>>> Thanks for any help you can give.

>>
>>> You should be able to adjust them for a tighter fit, although
>>> it won't be easy. Pull the inner panels off and there are
>>> slotted adjustments. Loosen the bolts, move the window, and
>>> tighten back up. Not too tight though... they have to
>>> move up and down and fit the top without burning out the motors.

>>
>> Thanks. They don't look like they need adjustment. The front window
>> is parallel to the rear window. They come up to the same height.
>>
>> They overlap the right amount.
>>
>> The windows are not loose.
>>
>> The problem is that they, maybe just the rear or just the front
>> windows, still move, left and right I think, when going over bumps,
>> and the front and back bump into each other.
>>
>> I have a friend of a friend who works for Toyota, and I'll also talk
>> to anotherr dealer without him, and I'll also have a friend ride with
>> me and try to figure out what is moving, and I expect I'll find it,
>> but I'm not optimistic about stopping the motion. There is a lot of
>> leverage from the height of the heavy windows.
>>
>> Never had this before. Not a problem in the winter, but expecting
>> more annoyance and disappointment in the spring.

>
> So they don't do this with the top up? This says to me that the top
> is actually adding rigidity to the chassis. If you insist on driving
> with the top down but windows up (I can't say as I understand that,
> but whatever floats your boat) you might need to add some kind of
> chassis stiffening brace if such is available for your vehicle.
> Typically those are things that are added to sporty-type cars and/or
> off-roaders, not sure if such is made for a Solara.
>
> nate


Just lower the window until they stop touching. Too simple a solution? I
would never let my glass hit against anything else - that's just asking
for trouble.
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Old 13 Mar 2012, 10:35 pm   #9 (permalink)
Steve W.
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Default Re: Front and rear windows hit each other.

Brent wrote:

>> So they don't do this with the top up? This says to me that the top
>> is actually adding rigidity to the chassis. If you insist on driving
>> with the top down but windows up (I can't say as I understand that,
>> but whatever floats your boat) you might need to add some kind of
>> chassis stiffening brace if such is available for your vehicle.
>> Typically those are things that are added to sporty-type cars and/or
>> off-roaders, not sure if such is made for a Solara.

>
> Sub frame connectors. Essentially a steel tube to connect the front and
> rear frame rails. Welded in with the top up and the car's weight on the
> wheels if the top up condition is what is desired. How the car's
> uni-body is loaded when they are welded in will have an effect on the
> result.
>
>


The problem isn't body flex related. The windows are VERY easy to
deflect with just a finger touch.

If you remember the way the windows on the 82-90 G bodies flopped around
when they were partly down these are the same way.
The glass is very thin and the only real support for them is a thin
strip of rubber between the two windows and the front edge of the glass
on the front window.

With the top UP the glass is supported by the top seals pressing them
down and out and holding them steady. With the top down the support is
gone, especially for the rear window. Plus given that the car is 12
years old and the window channels are probably worn out, the guides are
worn and the tracks are probably in tough shape as well the window
motion is almost a given even if it was the coupe which has a real
support frame for the glass. Now with just the thin rubber strip you're
going to get motion.

--
Steve W.
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Old 15 Mar 2012, 09:56 am   #10 (permalink)
N8N
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Default Re: Front and rear windows hit each other.

On Mar 13, 11:35*pm, "Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote:
> Brent wrote:
> >> So they don't do this with the top up? *This says to me that the top
> >> is actually adding rigidity to the chassis. *If you insist on driving
> >> with the top down but windows up (I can't say as I understand that,
> >> but whatever floats your boat) you might need to add some kind of
> >> chassis stiffening brace if such is available for your vehicle.
> >> Typically those are things that are added to sporty-type cars and/or
> >> off-roaders, not sure if such is made for a Solara.

>
> > Sub frame connectors. Essentially a steel tube to connect the front and
> > rear frame rails. Welded in with the top up and the car's weight on the
> > wheels if the top up condition is what is desired. How the car's
> > uni-body is loaded when they are welded in will have an effect on the
> > result.

>
> The problem isn't body flex related. The windows are VERY easy to
> deflect with just a finger touch.
>
> If you remember the way the windows on the 82-90 G bodies flopped around
> when they were partly down these are the same way.
> The glass is very thin and the only real support for them is a thin
> strip of rubber between the two windows and the front edge of the glass
> on the front window.


Hah, yes I do remember those. A girlfriend of mine back in the day
had a Monte and you pretty much drove it with the windows all the way
up or all the way down... if you left the window cracked and forgot to
roll it up before shutting the (long, heavy) door, you'd immediately
regret it because the glass would wobble ominously and you were always
afraid that it'd break and/or fall out of its track...

nate
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