03 Camry Valve clatter?

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Old 20 Jul 2003, 12:36 pm   #1 (permalink)
Platil
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Default 03 Camry Valve clatter?

Hello
My 03, KY built 4 cyl Camry I ordered has logged a 1k miles, and has had a
pronounced valve clacking/tapping like sound since new. No note of this
condition
was on the PDI, and a quick question to the Toyota tech was it's normal.

This Tapping/clatter noise is especially noticeable at idle with the engine
fully warmed, and
when the rpm's decrease from blipping the accelerator. Holding the engine
at a steady
1000-1500 RPM's will produce the clatter, and it can be heard to a lesser
degree when the
vehicle is driven away, and while driving. I was hoping a proper break-in
would cause it
to go, but no dice.

It is not injector tick IMO, and when a stethoscope is placed on the right
side engine cover
nut/stud or the head near the #1 cylinder, the noise is clear and distinct.

I have heard folks mention noise complaints with 1ZZ-FE and 2AZ-FE, engines
on start up,
but mine sounds "normal" until it is at base idle, and at normal operating
temp.

Anyone experience what I have mentioned and have an explanation or how you
resolved the issue?
I am going to change the oil at 1500 miles, then plan on going to M1 @ 5k

Thanks for the help



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Old 20 Jul 2003, 03:05 pm   #2 (permalink)
Jason James
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Default Re: 03 Camry Valve clatter?


"Platil" <sig220@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:AqASa.93462$wk6.26176@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.n et...
> Hello
> My 03, KY built 4 cyl Camry I ordered has logged a 1k miles, and has had a
> pronounced valve clacking/tapping like sound since new. No note of this
> condition
> was on the PDI, and a quick question to the Toyota tech was it's normal.
>
> This Tapping/clatter noise is especially noticeable at idle with the

engine
> fully warmed, and
> when the rpm's decrease from blipping the accelerator. Holding the engine
> at a steady
> 1000-1500 RPM's will produce the clatter, and it can be heard to a lesser
> degree when the
> vehicle is driven away, and while driving. I was hoping a proper break-in
> would cause it
> to go, but no dice.
>
> It is not injector tick IMO, and when a stethoscope is placed on the right
> side engine cover
> nut/stud or the head near the #1 cylinder, the noise is clear and

distinct.
>
> I have heard folks mention noise complaints with 1ZZ-FE and 2AZ-FE,

engines
> on start up,
> but mine sounds "normal" until it is at base idle, and at normal operating
> temp.
>
> Anyone experience what I have mentioned and have an explanation or how you
> resolved the issue?
> I am going to change the oil at 1500 miles, then plan on going to M1 @ 5k
>
> Thanks for the help


I harken back to the 5SFE cam gear chatter, even though they are scissor
gears? My '96 was making a simialr sound and I was concerned until a 2000
model pulled up with the same noise.

Maybe they still use the same drive config. Try listening to another car the
same engine.

Jason


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Old 20 Jul 2003, 04:26 pm   #3 (permalink)
Car Guy
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Default Re: 03 Camry Valve clatter?

try switching the oil to Mobil 1 5W30. I know on my 2001 Buick Century
there is a piston slap noice when cold and the Mobil 1 took care of the
noise.
"Platil" <sig220@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:AqASa.93462$wk6.26176@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.n et...
> Hello
> My 03, KY built 4 cyl Camry I ordered has logged a 1k miles, and has had a
> pronounced valve clacking/tapping like sound since new. No note of this
> condition
> was on the PDI, and a quick question to the Toyota tech was it's normal.
>
> This Tapping/clatter noise is especially noticeable at idle with the

engine
> fully warmed, and
> when the rpm's decrease from blipping the accelerator. Holding the engine
> at a steady
> 1000-1500 RPM's will produce the clatter, and it can be heard to a lesser
> degree when the
> vehicle is driven away, and while driving. I was hoping a proper break-in
> would cause it
> to go, but no dice.
>
> It is not injector tick IMO, and when a stethoscope is placed on the right
> side engine cover
> nut/stud or the head near the #1 cylinder, the noise is clear and

distinct.
>
> I have heard folks mention noise complaints with 1ZZ-FE and 2AZ-FE,

engines
> on start up,
> but mine sounds "normal" until it is at base idle, and at normal operating
> temp.
>
> Anyone experience what I have mentioned and have an explanation or how you
> resolved the issue?
> I am going to change the oil at 1500 miles, then plan on going to M1 @ 5k
>
> Thanks for the help
>
>
>



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Old 20 Jul 2003, 04:42 pm   #4 (permalink)
Philip®
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Default Re: 03 Camry Valve clatter?

Platil wrote:
> Hello
> My 03, KY built 4 cyl Camry I ordered has logged a 1k miles, and has
> had a pronounced valve clacking/tapping like sound since new. No note
> of this condition
> was on the PDI, and a quick question to the Toyota tech was it's
> normal.
>
> This Tapping/clatter noise is especially noticeable at idle with the
> engine fully warmed, and
> when the rpm's decrease from blipping the accelerator. Holding the
> engine at a steady
> 1000-1500 RPM's will produce the clatter, and it can be heard to a
> lesser degree when the
> vehicle is driven away, and while driving. I was hoping a proper
> break-in would cause it
> to go, but no dice.
>
> It is not injector tick IMO, and when a stethoscope is placed on the
> right side engine cover
> nut/stud or the head near the #1 cylinder, the noise is clear and
> distinct.
>
> I have heard folks mention noise complaints with 1ZZ-FE and 2AZ-FE,
> engines on start up,
> but mine sounds "normal" until it is at base idle, and at normal
> operating temp.
>
> Anyone experience what I have mentioned and have an explanation or
> how you resolved the issue?
> I am going to change the oil at 1500 miles, then plan on going to M1
> @ 5k
>
> Thanks for the help


When I first purchased my '03 Corolla last September, I posted my
subjective observation that the engine (1ZZ-FE) had quite a bit of valve
lash clatter as compared to my previous car ... a 1990 Prizm (4AFE
1600cc) with 285,000 miles on it. SOME of the noise can be diminished by
using a thicker oil (10w-30)... it seems. Now that I have 24,000 miles
on the car, the clatter has not changed and I have not performed a valve
lash check. The lash values on the engine calibration sticker are not
especially wide so ... it may be that the opening ramps on the cams are a
bit aggressive when taking up the slack before opening the valves.
--

Philip

"If a long train of abuses, prevarications, and artifices, all tending
the same way, make the design visible to the people . tis not to be
wondered that they should then rouse themselves."
- John Locke (1632-1704)



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Old 22 Jul 2003, 06:50 pm   #5 (permalink)
Platil
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Default Re: 03 Camry Valve clatter?


"Jason James" <stratosphere2@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:vCCSa.5845$OM3.2906@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Platil" <sig220@insightbb.com> wrote in message
> news:AqASa.93462$wk6.26176@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.n et...
> > Hello
> > My 03, KY built 4 cyl Camry I ordered has logged a 1k miles, and has had

a
> > pronounced valve clacking/tapping like sound since new. No note of this
> > condition
> > was on the PDI, and a quick question to the Toyota tech was it's normal.
> >
> > This Tapping/clatter noise is especially noticeable at idle with the

> engine
> > fully warmed, and
> > when the rpm's decrease from blipping the accelerator. Holding the

engine
> > at a steady
> > 1000-1500 RPM's will produce the clatter, and it can be heard to a

lesser
> > degree when the
> > vehicle is driven away, and while driving. I was hoping a proper

break-in
> > would cause it
> > to go, but no dice.
> >
> > It is not injector tick IMO, and when a stethoscope is placed on the

right
> > side engine cover
> > nut/stud or the head near the #1 cylinder, the noise is clear and

> distinct.
> >
> > I have heard folks mention noise complaints with 1ZZ-FE and 2AZ-FE,

> engines
> > on start up,
> > but mine sounds "normal" until it is at base idle, and at normal

operating
> > temp.
> >
> > Anyone experience what I have mentioned and have an explanation or how

you
> > resolved the issue?
> > I am going to change the oil at 1500 miles, then plan on going to M1 @

5k
> >
> > Thanks for the help

>
> I harken back to the 5SFE cam gear chatter, even though they are scissor
> gears? My '96 was making a simialr sound and I was concerned until a 2000
> model pulled up with the same noise.
>
> Maybe they still use the same drive config. Try listening to another car

the
> same engine.
>
> Jason
>
>


While writing up a service order for an 02, 4cyl Camry today, I noticed a
similar tapping sound that I experience with my 03 SE.

The tapping/clatter noise was in the exact same area as mine (#1 cyl) and
seemed even louder. Other than Phillips logical reply concerning aggressive
cam profile, what else could it be other than an out of spec "bucket".

I am under the impression that the noise is normal, but damn is it annoying
for a car with 1100 miles.






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Old 23 Jul 2003, 06:37 pm   #6 (permalink)
Dan Vaught
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Default Re: 03 Camry Valve clatter?

We have a '02 4 cyl. Camry with what sounds like the same valve noise.
Modest throttle when pulling away from a stop or any other light throtle
application results in a (to me) really annoying noise that sounds like
loosely set valve gear of olden times (excesssive mechanical valve
clearances.) This noise has been heard since brand new, now has 20,000
miles and might be worse - but not actually known.
Dealer had it several thousand miles back for checking the "valve" noise -
says it sounds like other similar '02 Camrys on their lots.
This is our third straight Camry (both earlier models went >150,000 miles
before selling) - not one of the earlier model 4 cyl had any such noise. In
fact, their engines were significantly quieter at 150,000 miles than when
this brand new car came to us. I do not like to ride in the car due to my
sensitiveness to the noise.

Oh yes, they (dealer mechanics) speculated that the Toyota change from
timing belts to timing gears / metal chain in the fours was a big part of
the noise. Can anyone confirm this actual change and if true - when it
happened? By the way, my OLD (really old) cars with timing gears / metal
chain never made a noise like valve clatter due to the timing gears / chain!
Any comments?

As an aside - I don't buy the dealer's explanation that the new type of gas
causing the exhaust stink - none of my other vehicles nor my family
vehicles - stink! I believe we are being snookered - just like when GM had
the same smelly exhaust problem - they stonewalled the customers in 1973 and
got away with it ( by all miracles - it disappeared when they changed cat.
convertors design!)

thanks for reading and appreciate anyone's help - if I need to clarify any
of this - let me know.
dan


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Old 23 Jul 2003, 10:38 pm   #7 (permalink)
Philip®
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Default Re: 03 Camry Valve clatter?

Dan Vaught wrote:
>SNIP<
> Oh yes, they (dealer mechanics) speculated that the Toyota change from
> timing belts to timing gears / metal chain in the fours was a big
> part of the noise.


There has been no such change to "timing gears."

>SNIP<
> By the way, my OLD (really old) cars with
> timing gears / metal chain never made a noise like valve clatter due
> to the timing gears / chain! Any comments?


The engines you refer to did not use roller chains. They used multiplate
Morse HyVo designe chains.

> As an aside - I don't buy the dealer's explanation that the new type
> of gas causing the exhaust stink - none of my other vehicles nor my
> family vehicles - stink! I believe we are being snookered - just
> like when GM had the same smelly exhaust problem - they stonewalled
> the customers in 1973 and got away with it ( by all miracles - it
> disappeared when they changed cat. convertors design!)


The change was to the catalytic converter to meet ULEV emissions *using*
a lower sulfur fuel than has yet to be delivered except in some markets,
i.e. California.

--

Philip

"If a long train of abuses, prevarications, and artifices, all tending
the same way, make the design visible to the people . tis not to
be wondered that they should then rouse themselves."
- John Locke (1632-1704)


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Old 11 Aug 2003, 08:42 pm   #8 (permalink)
Jon
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Default Re: 03 Camry Valve clatter?

"Platil" <sig220@insightbb.com> wrote in message news:<AqASa.93462$wk6.26176@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att. net>...
> Hello
> My 03, KY built 4 cyl Camry I ordered has logged a 1k miles, and has had a
> pronounced valve clacking/tapping like sound since new. No note of this
> condition
> was on the PDI, and a quick question to the Toyota tech was it's normal.
>
> This Tapping/clatter noise is especially noticeable at idle with the engine
> fully warmed, and
> when the rpm's decrease from blipping the accelerator. Holding the engine
> at a steady
> 1000-1500 RPM's will produce the clatter, and it can be heard to a lesser
> degree when the
> vehicle is driven away, and while driving. I was hoping a proper break-in
> would cause it
> to go, but no dice.
>
> It is not injector tick IMO, and when a stethoscope is placed on the right
> side engine cover
> nut/stud or the head near the #1 cylinder, the noise is clear and distinct.
>
> I have heard folks mention noise complaints with 1ZZ-FE and 2AZ-FE, engines
> on start up,
> but mine sounds "normal" until it is at base idle, and at normal operating
> temp.
>
> Anyone experience what I have mentioned and have an explanation or how you
> resolved the issue?
> I am going to change the oil at 1500 miles, then plan on going to M1 @ 5k
>
> Thanks for the help


Here is a short .wav file link to clarify the noise. I will try to
get a higher RPM recording shortly

http://tinyurl.com/jpq5
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Old 12 Aug 2003, 08:42 am   #9 (permalink)
mark Ransley
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Default Re: 03 Camry Valve clatter?

best is to compare it side by side to another camry

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Old 13 Aug 2003, 08:27 pm   #10 (permalink)
Jason James
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Default Re: 03 Camry Valve clatter?


"mark Ransley" <ransley@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:10349-3F38EEC0-67@storefull-2173.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> best is to compare it side by side to another camry


Good idea,...that's how I stopped being concerned about my 5SFE overhead
clatter (moderately loud),...a 2000 sounded the same.

I once had a TC Fiarto 125 1600, it used buckets and shims and sounded
similar. Its not cheap to get them adjusted and its a prick of a DIY job.

Jason


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