Roof fabric on 2000 Camry delaminating by rear window

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Old 02 Jul 2012, 07:23 am   #1 (permalink)
Jan Alter
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Default Roof fabric on 2000 Camry delaminating by rear window

It seems that the thin cloth headliner is becoming unattached (probably from
heat and drying out of the adhesive). Anyone have experience with this
situation and the best adhesive to restore the material to the roof? In
googling a couple of folks mention 3M Super 90 adhesive.

Thanks

--
Jan Alter
bearpuf@verizon.net


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Old 02 Jul 2012, 06:58 pm   #2 (permalink)
micky
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Default Re: Roof fabric on 2000 Camry delaminating by rear window

On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 08:23:11 -0400, "Jan Alter" <bearpuf@verizon.net>
wrote:

>It seems that the thin cloth headliner is becoming unattached (probably from
>heat and drying out of the adhesive). Anyone have experience with this
>situation and the best adhesive to restore the material to the roof? In
>googling a couple of folks mention 3M Super 90 adhesive.


Is this a non-convertible?

Is the edge already open or is in the middle of the healdliner?

If the middle, I read a suggestion once for headliner in general to
use soemthing that will go through a syringe and put the needle
through the headliner and squeeze out a drop of glue. What glue will
do this I'm not sure.

If the edge has opened, and it won't have to bend, I think just about
anything will work, but let me know if that is it and I'll tell you
about my favorite glues.

>Thanks


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Old 02 Jul 2012, 09:27 pm   #3 (permalink)
Jan Alter
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Default Re: Roof fabric on 2000 Camry delaminating by rear window

"micky" <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:m6d4v7l5ldts9frpbvh7gfdj6u4ablhcr5@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 08:23:11 -0400, "Jan Alter" <bearpuf@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>>It seems that the thin cloth headliner is becoming unattached (probably
>>from
>>heat and drying out of the adhesive). Anyone have experience with this
>>situation and the best adhesive to restore the material to the roof? In
>>googling a couple of folks mention 3M Super 90 adhesive.

>
> Is this a non-convertible?
>
> Is the edge already open or is in the middle of the healdliner?
>
> If the middle, I read a suggestion once for headliner in general to
> use soemthing that will go through a syringe and put the needle
> through the headliner and squeeze out a drop of glue. What glue will
> do this I'm not sure.
>
> If the edge has opened, and it won't have to bend, I think just about
> anything will work, but let me know if that is it and I'll tell you
> about my favorite glues.
>
>>Thanks

>


It's opening up at the edges as it meets the rear window rather than the
middle.

--
Jan Alter
bearpuf@verizon.net


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Old 02 Jul 2012, 10:51 pm   #4 (permalink)
micky
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Default Re: Roof fabric on 2000 Camry delaminating by rear window

On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 22:27:43 -0400, "Jan Alter" <bearpuf@verizon.net>
wrote:

>"micky" <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>news:m6d4v7l5ldts9frpbvh7gfdj6u4ablhcr5@4ax.com.. .
>> On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 08:23:11 -0400, "Jan Alter" <bearpuf@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>It seems that the thin cloth headliner is becoming unattached (probably
>>>from
>>>heat and drying out of the adhesive). Anyone have experience with this
>>>situation and the best adhesive to restore the material to the roof? In
>>>googling a couple of folks mention 3M Super 90 adhesive.


I don't think I've ever used this IIRC it's a spray. Yes it is a
spray. I wouldn't use a spray inside the car, even with a dust
mask, and probably not even with a vapor mask, or whatever they are
called. For one thing, it can leak around the circumference I would
think. I don't want to inhale glue**. Plus it would go places you
don't want it, like the window and the top of the other headlining. .

**You only get one set of lungs. I'm 65 now and the noise in my right
ear got worse about 3 years ago. I've had it since I was 10 or 20, I
thought, but it was very small. Thinking about how I got it, I do
remember a summer job I had for 3 weeks or so when I was 21 where I
was in a steel cylinder topped by a steel dome, about 40 feet across,
where every 20 minutes a guy with a jack hammer would start tearing
apart a new layer of bricks, the next layer down from the one we'd
just disassembled and thrown down the hole. I think it took him 5 or
10 seconds to do this, each time.

The company that contracted with the steel company gave us all dust
masks, and gave most of us safety harnesses for around our waist and
crotch, which attached to a steel safety cable that was attached at
the top, so we wouldn't fall down the hole. I'm trying to remember if
they gave us ear plugs, and I don't think so and I'm sure I didn't
think of it either. At the time it didn't bother me, and I never
attributed the permanent noise in my ear to this job. For the last
20 years, I've said it started when I was 10 or 20, but maybe it
started when I was 21. The job paid great compared to my job earlier
that summer, but it certainly wasn't worth it if it caused this noise.
I can't think of anything when I was 10 to 20 that might have caused
the noise.

If I'd known I would get this noise at 62, I wouldn't have stayed at
that first job, just to be careful.

How porous is your headliner? If a thick liquid glue was applied to
one part but not every part, would it show up as a flat spot where the
glue was but a puffy or not so flat part where the glue wasn't?

I think a lot of people would use contact cement here, but two
problems, 1) have to be careful it doesn't drip off and get on other
things, 2) might be like the previous paragraph.

If you do use contact cement, I haven't bought any for 10 years. It
used to be that Weldwood, I think it was, made two kinds, both in
tubes. The red tube was good stuff but the white tube had a stronger
smell and didn't work well. I don't think it was old.

Contact cement is especially good for cloth or anything that might be
bend and folded, but though this is cloth, it probably doesn't bend at
all.

My other favorite glues are
Ambroid Cement, which dries fast but might also dribble. It's only
available at hobby stores, afaik. It never dries (I had one big tube
for 25 years) out so you can buy the bigger tube.

When I asked about sticking my rear window curtain to my rear window,
in rec.autos.tec ** I got an answer that might be very good for you.
The only problem is that the stuff is expensive, but you might have
other uses for what you don't use.

**Which would be a good place for this question, since there's nothing
specifically Toyota one has to know.

He said
>> i used 3m VHB tape. it comes in a roll, is double sided, and very
>> sticky. if you put it somewhere, it will NOT be coming off or allow you
>> to reposition it.


>>it's been 4 years now, in phx, so has a lot of heat/sunlight but not
>>very much rain. it's still 100% stuck, and waterproof.


>>it has a wax paper type on both sides. you peel off one side, lay it in
>>place, peel off the other side, and touch the 2nd surface. press down a
>>bit, and it's stuck. no need for clamping or any great pressure.


>>i use it in my glass work, so had some although i'm out currently. i use
>>it to attach glass art pieces to backing (metal, granite, etc) displays.


He was right. For a convertible window, no glue is strong enough and
nothing else would have worked.

VHB stands for Very High Bonding, and it does that. I think it's the
same stuff that sometimes comes in a magazine or the mail, between the
paper and some free thing, but maybe not. . I used it for the top of
my rear window and it's done a great job. (Would have done a better
job if the Solar window didn't frequently catch on something on the
way down.) It has some thickness to it. oh yeah, different
thicknesses, 15 to 40 mil, , and if so I'd get the thinnest unless you
have a use for thicker stuff elsewhere. You have to decide if 15 mils
is so thick it will look bad with the rest of it. ,

I bought it here:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg...rue&sst=subset

Well, they have a roll for only $21, and another for 11. I didn't
get the first because I didn't' think it was wide and strong enough
for my glass window, but it is for your situation

Even $7 for Item # 15C882

Hmm. I guess they do ship, and I can't imagine they want proof your a
business. But I know they gave me a hard time at the store years ago.
Maybe that was before the web.


Another thing you could do is only use a few small pieces. that might
not be noticeable.

Don't get your fingers on it and do it right the first time because
you can't move it,and it's hard to remove. .

>> Is this a non-convertible?
>>
>> Is the edge already open or is in the middle of the healdliner?
>>
>> If the middle, I read a suggestion once for headliner in general to
>> use soemthing that will go through a syringe and put the needle
>> through the headliner and squeeze out a drop of glue. What glue will
>> do this I'm not sure.
>>
>> If the edge has opened, and it won't have to bend, I think just about
>> anything will work, but let me know if that is it and I'll tell you
>> about my favorite glues.
>>
>>>Thanks

>>

>
>It's opening up at the edges as it meets the rear window rather than the
>middle.


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Old 03 Jul 2012, 02:36 pm   #5 (permalink)
Jan Alter
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Default Re: Roof fabric on 2000 Camry delaminating by rear window



"micky" <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:59n4v7d2a6vvjbauecevbico14g8d3hntd@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 22:27:43 -0400, "Jan Alter" <bearpuf@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>>"micky" <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>>news:m6d4v7l5ldts9frpbvh7gfdj6u4ablhcr5@4ax.com. ..
>>> On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 08:23:11 -0400, "Jan Alter" <bearpuf@verizon.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>It seems that the thin cloth headliner is becoming unattached (probably
>>>>from
>>>>heat and drying out of the adhesive). Anyone have experience with this
>>>>situation and the best adhesive to restore the material to the roof? In
>>>>googling a couple of folks mention 3M Super 90 adhesive.

>
> I don't think I've ever used this IIRC it's a spray. Yes it is a
> spray. I wouldn't use a spray inside the car, even with a dust
> mask, and probably not even with a vapor mask, or whatever they are
> called. For one thing, it can leak around the circumference I would
> think. I don't want to inhale glue**. Plus it would go places you
> don't want it, like the window and the top of the other headlining. .
>
> **You only get one set of lungs. I'm 65 now and the noise in my right
> ear got worse about 3 years ago. I've had it since I was 10 or 20, I
> thought, but it was very small. Thinking about how I got it, I do
> remember a summer job I had for 3 weeks or so when I was 21 where I
> was in a steel cylinder topped by a steel dome, about 40 feet across,
> where every 20 minutes a guy with a jack hammer would start tearing
> apart a new layer of bricks, the next layer down from the one we'd
> just disassembled and thrown down the hole. I think it took him 5 or
> 10 seconds to do this, each time.
>
> The company that contracted with the steel company gave us all dust
> masks, and gave most of us safety harnesses for around our waist and
> crotch, which attached to a steel safety cable that was attached at
> the top, so we wouldn't fall down the hole. I'm trying to remember if
> they gave us ear plugs, and I don't think so and I'm sure I didn't
> think of it either. At the time it didn't bother me, and I never
> attributed the permanent noise in my ear to this job. For the last
> 20 years, I've said it started when I was 10 or 20, but maybe it
> started when I was 21. The job paid great compared to my job earlier
> that summer, but it certainly wasn't worth it if it caused this noise.
> I can't think of anything when I was 10 to 20 that might have caused
> the noise.
>
> If I'd known I would get this noise at 62, I wouldn't have stayed at
> that first job, just to be careful.
>
> How porous is your headliner? If a thick liquid glue was applied to
> one part but not every part, would it show up as a flat spot where the
> glue was but a puffy or not so flat part where the glue wasn't?
>
> I think a lot of people would use contact cement here, but two
> problems, 1) have to be careful it doesn't drip off and get on other
> things, 2) might be like the previous paragraph.
>
> If you do use contact cement, I haven't bought any for 10 years. It
> used to be that Weldwood, I think it was, made two kinds, both in
> tubes. The red tube was good stuff but the white tube had a stronger
> smell and didn't work well. I don't think it was old.
>
> Contact cement is especially good for cloth or anything that might be
> bend and folded, but though this is cloth, it probably doesn't bend at
> all.
>
> My other favorite glues are
> Ambroid Cement, which dries fast but might also dribble. It's only
> available at hobby stores, afaik. It never dries (I had one big tube
> for 25 years) out so you can buy the bigger tube.
>
> When I asked about sticking my rear window curtain to my rear window,
> in rec.autos.tec ** I got an answer that might be very good for you.
> The only problem is that the stuff is expensive, but you might have
> other uses for what you don't use.
>
> **Which would be a good place for this question, since there's nothing
> specifically Toyota one has to know.
>
> He said
>>> i used 3m VHB tape. it comes in a roll, is double sided, and very
>>> sticky. if you put it somewhere, it will NOT be coming off or allow you
>>> to reposition it.

>
>>>it's been 4 years now, in phx, so has a lot of heat/sunlight but not
>>>very much rain. it's still 100% stuck, and waterproof.

>
>>>it has a wax paper type on both sides. you peel off one side, lay it in
>>>place, peel off the other side, and touch the 2nd surface. press down a
>>>bit, and it's stuck. no need for clamping or any great pressure.

>
>>>i use it in my glass work, so had some although i'm out currently. i use
>>>it to attach glass art pieces to backing (metal, granite, etc) displays.

>
> He was right. For a convertible window, no glue is strong enough and
> nothing else would have worked.
>
> VHB stands for Very High Bonding, and it does that. I think it's the
> same stuff that sometimes comes in a magazine or the mail, between the
> paper and some free thing, but maybe not. . I used it for the top of
> my rear window and it's done a great job. (Would have done a better
> job if the Solar window didn't frequently catch on something on the
> way down.) It has some thickness to it. oh yeah, different
> thicknesses, 15 to 40 mil, , and if so I'd get the thinnest unless you
> have a use for thicker stuff elsewhere. You have to decide if 15 mils
> is so thick it will look bad with the rest of it. ,
>
> I bought it here:
> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg...rue&sst=subset
>
> Well, they have a roll for only $21, and another for 11. I didn't
> get the first because I didn't' think it was wide and strong enough
> for my glass window, but it is for your situation
>
> Even $7 for Item # 15C882
>
> Hmm. I guess they do ship, and I can't imagine they want proof your a
> business. But I know they gave me a hard time at the store years ago.
> Maybe that was before the web.
>
>
> Another thing you could do is only use a few small pieces. that might
> not be noticeable.
>
> Don't get your fingers on it and do it right the first time because
> you can't move it,and it's hard to remove. .
>
>>> Is this a non-convertible?
>>>
>>> Is the edge already open or is in the middle of the healdliner?
>>>
>>> If the middle, I read a suggestion once for headliner in general to
>>> use soemthing that will go through a syringe and put the needle
>>> through the headliner and squeeze out a drop of glue. What glue will
>>> do this I'm not sure.
>>>
>>> If the edge has opened, and it won't have to bend, I think just about
>>> anything will work, but let me know if that is it and I'll tell you
>>> about my favorite glues.
>>>
>>>>Thanks
>>>

>>
>>It's opening up at the edges as it meets the rear window rather than the
>>middle.

>



Thanks for the information. I'll keep it in the portfolio here. I may
actually go to the dealer and ask what they use. Our Camry can't be the olny
one this delamination is happening.
Sorry about the noise you've had in your ear. I've got a case of tinitus
myself for the past 3 years. I keep wondering if it's the result of me
riding motorcycles for about 15 years in my youth.


--
Jan Alter
bearpuf@verizon.net


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Old 03 Jul 2012, 10:37 pm   #6 (permalink)
micky
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Default Re: Roof fabric on 2000 Camry delaminating by rear window

On Tue, 3 Jul 2012 15:36:52 -0400, "Jan Alter" <bearpuf@verizon.net>
wrote:

>Thanks for the information. I'll keep it in the portfolio here. I may
>actually go to the dealer and ask what they use. Our Camry can't be the olny


Good idea.

>one this delamination is happening.
> Sorry about the noise you've had in your ear. I've got a case of tinitus
>myself for the past 3 years. I keep wondering if it's the result of me
>riding motorcycles for about 15 years in my youth.


Well, I had my hearing tested 2 weeks ago for the first time in 55
years, and asked the doctor (an ENT, not a "doctor" of audiology)
about the loud outdoor band my brother took me to for about 5 minutes
2 to 5 months before the noise got louder, and he seemed to think it
would have shown up earlier than 2 months. 15 years is a lot longer
than that.
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Old 04 Jul 2012, 03:34 pm   #7 (permalink)
BeeJ
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Default Re: Roof fabric on 2000 Camry delaminating by rear window

Jan Alter brought next idea :
> It seems that the thin cloth headliner is becoming unattached (probably from
> heat and drying out of the adhesive). Anyone have experience with this
> situation and the best adhesive to restore the material to the roof? In
> googling a couple of folks mention 3M Super 90 adhesive.
>
> Thanks


Spray is not going to work on a small area; too hard to control.
Depending on the fabric, something you can test, a hot glue gun may
work. But the easiest is a two part medium set epoxy injector. The
injector type has a nozzle that mixes the epoxy as you extrude it and
the nozzle can go under the fabric. Squeeze a little in the use your
gloved finger to smooth out. Don't use so much that it oozes out and
makes a mess. A little goes a long way. Same procedure to inject and
smooth for the hot glue gun, just be quicker.

--
Present and unaccounted for.


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Old 05 Jul 2012, 05:08 am   #8 (permalink)
Jan Alter
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Default Re: Roof fabric on 2000 Camry delaminating by rear window



"BeeJ" <nospam@spamnot.com> wrote in message
news:jt29cg$j1k$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> Jan Alter brought next idea :
>> It seems that the thin cloth headliner is becoming unattached (probably
>> from heat and drying out of the adhesive). Anyone have experience with
>> this situation and the best adhesive to restore the material to the roof?
>> In googling a couple of folks mention 3M Super 90 adhesive.
>>
>> Thanks

>
> Spray is not going to work on a small area; too hard to control.
> Depending on the fabric, something you can test, a hot glue gun may work.
> But the easiest is a two part medium set epoxy injector. The injector
> type has a nozzle that mixes the epoxy as you extrude it and the nozzle
> can go under the fabric. Squeeze a little in the use your gloved finger
> to smooth out. Don't use so much that it oozes out and makes a mess. A
> little goes a long way. Same procedure to inject and smooth for the hot
> glue gun, just be quicker.
>
> --
> Present and unaccounted for.
>
>

Thanks. I'm still considering all suggestions.

--
Jan Alter
bearpuf@verizon.net


  Reply With Quote

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