Brake Problem

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Old 16 Aug 2003, 06:32 pm   #1 (permalink)
Renping Yin
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Default Brake Problem

Hi All,

Two weeks ago I changed the rotor, pads and shoes for front and rear brake
because I found I have to press brake really hard to stop the car when the
car is running around 65/hour.After I changed everything(rotor, pads and
shoes), also bleed the brake oil in the system, but I didn't see any
improvement on the brake.I still press really hard in order to stop the car.


This week my brake got worse and worse, I have to press the pedal harder and
harder to stop the car. But I did check the master cylinder, there is no
leaking around the master cylinder. Normally if I press the brake without
starting the engine, I only can press two or three times, then I can't press
any more. But today I pressed the peddle without starting the engine, I can
press the pedal all the time. Could you please tell me which part is wrong ?

Model: Toyota corolla 92
Mileage: 170,000

Thanks in advance

Alan



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Old 17 Aug 2003, 07:33 am   #2 (permalink)
Jason James
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Default Re: Brake Problem


"Renping Yin" <ryin@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Jaz%a.108347$wk4.86444@twister.nyroc.rr.com.. .
> Hi All,
>
> Two weeks ago I changed the rotor, pads and shoes for front and rear brake
> because I found I have to press brake really hard to stop the car when the
> car is running around 65/hour.After I changed everything(rotor, pads and
> shoes), also bleed the brake oil in the system, but I didn't see any
> improvement on the brake.I still press really hard in order to stop the

car.
>
>
> This week my brake got worse and worse, I have to press the pedal harder

and
> harder to stop the car. But I did check the master cylinder, there is no
> leaking around the master cylinder. Normally if I press the brake without
> starting the engine, I only can press two or three times, then I can't

press
> any more. But today I pressed the peddle without starting the engine, I

can
> press the pedal all the time. Could you please tell me which part is wrong

?
>
> Model: Toyota corolla 92
> Mileage: 170,000
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Alan


If by pressing the brake you mean the pedal has movement, then it sounds
like you have air in the hydraulics. Air being a gas, compresses, using up
pedal movement.

Jason


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Old 17 Aug 2003, 10:33 am   #3 (permalink)
mark Ransley
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Default Re: Brake Problem

It could be air in the system, but it could more likley be a bad master
cilinder , they go bad even without leaking, rebuilts are risky as many
rebuilt parts are crap these days

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Old 17 Aug 2003, 10:18 pm   #4 (permalink)
Philip®
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Default Re: Brake Problem

Jason James wrote:
> "mark Ransley" <ransley@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:2914-3F3FA03A-82@storefull-2177.public.lawson.webtv.net...
>> It could be air in the system, but it could more likley be a bad
>> master cilinder , they go bad even without leaking, rebuilts are
>> risky as many rebuilt parts are crap these days

>
> True that a bypassing seal can cause the pedal to move towrds the
> floor. In this event the end seal sometimes fails to hold allowing
> oil to leak down the dront of the booster removing paint as it
> goes.
>
> A test for this: apply pressure to the pedal and note if it creeps
> downward. If so the seal/s have failed and a dangerous condition
> prevails.
>
> Jason


The irony here is that static testing the master cylinder in the
mannner described above is not conclusive. I've lightly pressed ...
and I've stood on .... the brake pedal only to find a solid pedal.
But go drive the vehicle and sooner or later, a normal stop will
reveal a "bypassing" seal in the master cylinder. Go figure.
--

~~Philip

cantankerous | kan-TANG-kruss
- adjective: difficult or irritating to deal with.

Example: Philip was always cantankerous in the
morning, given to snapping and snarling until he'd
had his first cup of coffee and a soothing hot shower.


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Old 18 Aug 2003, 01:41 am   #5 (permalink)
Jason James
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Default Re: Brake Problem


"Philip®" <chipstate@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:LzX%a.7143$Nf3.7064@newsread4.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> Jason James wrote:
> > "mark Ransley" <ransley@webtv.net> wrote in message
> > news:2914-3F3FA03A-82@storefull-2177.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> >> It could be air in the system, but it could more likley be a bad
> >> master cilinder , they go bad even without leaking, rebuilts are
> >> risky as many rebuilt parts are crap these days

> >
> > True that a bypassing seal can cause the pedal to move towrds the
> > floor. In this event the end seal sometimes fails to hold allowing
> > oil to leak down the dront of the booster removing paint as it
> > goes.
> >
> > A test for this: apply pressure to the pedal and note if it creeps
> > downward. If so the seal/s have failed and a dangerous condition
> > prevails.
> >
> > Jason

>
> The irony here is that static testing the master cylinder in the
> mannner described above is not conclusive. I've lightly pressed ...
> and I've stood on .... the brake pedal only to find a solid pedal.
> But go drive the vehicle and sooner or later, a normal stop will
> reveal a "bypassing" seal in the master cylinder. Go figure.
> --
>


Yeah,...perhaps temp has something to do with it. In the bad old days when
cars got quite bad in this area before maintenance, a seal could be
bypassing rapidly. The driver would pump the pedal to try and regain some
action, saying that it was only air!

Jason


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Old 18 Aug 2003, 10:36 am   #6 (permalink)
Philip®
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Default Re: Brake Problem

Jason James wrote:
> "Philip®" <chipstate@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:LzX%a.7143$Nf3.7064@newsread4.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
>>
>> The irony here is that static testing the master cylinder in the
>> mannner described above is not conclusive. I've lightly pressed
>> ... and I've stood on .... the brake pedal only to find a solid
>> pedal. But go drive the vehicle and sooner or later, a normal
>> stop will reveal a "bypassing" seal in the master cylinder. Go
>> figure. --
>>

>
> Yeah,...perhaps temp has something to do with it. In the bad old
> days when cars got quite bad in this area before maintenance, a
> seal could be bypassing rapidly. The driver would pump the pedal
> to try and regain some action, saying that it was only air!
>
> Jason


In the "bad old days when cars...."

Ok "dude". This may be a little before your time but most master
cylinders used to be made of cast iron which offers a rougher surface
than aluminum.
--

~~Philip

cantankerous | kan-TANG-kruss
- adjective: difficult or irritating to deal with.

Example: Philip was always cantankerous in the
morning, given to snapping and snarling until he'd
had his first cup of coffee and a soothing hot shower.





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Old 18 Aug 2003, 04:55 pm   #7 (permalink)
davidj92
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Default Re: Brake Problem


"Philip®" <chipstate@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4o60b.92$xD6.0@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.n et...
> Jason James wrote:
> > "Philip®" <chipstate@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:LzX%a.7143$Nf3.7064@newsread4.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> >>
> >> The irony here is that static testing the master cylinder in the
> >> mannner described above is not conclusive. I've lightly pressed
> >> ... and I've stood on .... the brake pedal only to find a solid
> >> pedal. But go drive the vehicle and sooner or later, a normal
> >> stop will reveal a "bypassing" seal in the master cylinder. Go
> >> figure. --
> >>

> >
> > Yeah,...perhaps temp has something to do with it. In the bad old
> > days when cars got quite bad in this area before maintenance, a
> > seal could be bypassing rapidly. The driver would pump the pedal
> > to try and regain some action, saying that it was only air!
> >
> > Jason

>
> In the "bad old days when cars...."
>
> Ok "dude". This may be a little before your time but most master
> cylinders used to be made of cast iron which offers a rougher surface
> than aluminum.
> --
>
> ~~Philip
>
> cantankerous | kan-TANG-kruss
> - adjective: difficult or irritating to deal with.
>
> Example: Philip was always cantankerous in the
> morning, given to snapping and snarling until he'd
> had his first cup of coffee and a soothing hot shower.
>

Philip,
Remember when the older brake fluid(s) would turn to some kind of mucky
brown or gray stuff in the bottom of the master cylinders if they weren't
flushed regularly?
I've seen those a cause a pedal to the floor intermittently and would
sometimes pump up like air in the system.
Usually this could be fixed with a brake system flush, though.
Saw your comment and couldn't help but reminisce, sigh. :-D
davidj92


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