Toyota TSB - Why don't dealers contact customers of affected vehicles?

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Old 14 Oct 2003, 06:19 am   #1 (permalink)
Car Guy
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Default Toyota TSB - Why don't dealers contact customers of affected vehicles?

I have got my hand on all the 2002 Camry LE & LE V6 TSB's and been looking
them over with great interest. It seems that some quirks that I have
observed happened to have TSB's for them.

I just wonder why Toyota Dealers not do a lookup of any outstanding TSB's
that correspond to the VIN number of the vehicle and contact the customer?
I could see this as being extra traffic in the service bays, but would that
not be indicative of a customer centered organization?

I have heard stories of Lexus dealers and other brands getting this type of
thing done to their vehicles at every scheduled maintenance service. Just
thought Toyota would adopt this practice to their vehicles as a means to
follow through (if not extend) the Kaizen process.

Any thoughts?


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Old 14 Oct 2003, 07:17 am   #2 (permalink)
C. E. White
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Default Re: Toyota TSB - Why don't dealers contact customers of affectedvehicles?

TSB are service tips that tell shops how to handle common Customer complaints
and problems. Not every vehicle will suffer from the problems and not all
Customer will be concerned about some of the others. If you notice a problem
and there is a related TSB, then your chances of getting a good first time fix
are enhanced. But just because there is a TSB for your car, doesn't mean you
need the fix described. A lot of TSBs merely describe the proper methods to be
used or notify the service departments that new parts are available. Calling up
Customers and telling them that there car might be affected by a particular TSB
seems like a bad idea if the Customer is not having a problem. Personally I'd
like my car to stay out of the shop unless there is a problem. For serious
problems, auto makers issue recalls.

Regards,

Ed White

Car Guy wrote:

> I have got my hand on all the 2002 Camry LE & LE V6 TSB's and been looking
> them over with great interest. It seems that some quirks that I have
> observed happened to have TSB's for them.
>
> I just wonder why Toyota Dealers not do a lookup of any outstanding TSB's
> that correspond to the VIN number of the vehicle and contact the customer?
> I could see this as being extra traffic in the service bays, but would that
> not be indicative of a customer centered organization?
>
> I have heard stories of Lexus dealers and other brands getting this type of
> thing done to their vehicles at every scheduled maintenance service. Just
> thought Toyota would adopt this practice to their vehicles as a means to
> follow through (if not extend) the Kaizen process.
>
> Any thoughts?


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Old 14 Oct 2003, 08:11 am   #3 (permalink)
Car Guy
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Default Re: Toyota TSB - Why don't dealers contact customers of affected vehicles?

Thanks for your information.

I would still think that if the problem exists on 200x Camry's built from
Jan to June, with a specific option, etc (i.e. matched in the VIN number
series), there should be the focus to put this info in the customer file so
that when they come in for service, this issue is taken care of as a
customer focus mandate.

Its a pity auto manufacturers are only concerned about making revenue and
not customer satisfaction.

"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3F8BE942.32F017B9@mindspring.com...
> TSB are service tips that tell shops how to handle common Customer

complaints
> and problems. Not every vehicle will suffer from the problems and not all
> Customer will be concerned about some of the others. If you notice a

problem
> and there is a related TSB, then your chances of getting a good first time

fix
> are enhanced. But just because there is a TSB for your car, doesn't mean

you
> need the fix described. A lot of TSBs merely describe the proper methods

to be
> used or notify the service departments that new parts are available.

Calling up
> Customers and telling them that there car might be affected by a

particular TSB
> seems like a bad idea if the Customer is not having a problem. Personally

I'd
> like my car to stay out of the shop unless there is a problem. For serious
> problems, auto makers issue recalls.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed White
>
> Car Guy wrote:
>
> > I have got my hand on all the 2002 Camry LE & LE V6 TSB's and been

looking
> > them over with great interest. It seems that some quirks that I have
> > observed happened to have TSB's for them.
> >
> > I just wonder why Toyota Dealers not do a lookup of any outstanding

TSB's
> > that correspond to the VIN number of the vehicle and contact the

customer?
> > I could see this as being extra traffic in the service bays, but would

that
> > not be indicative of a customer centered organization?
> >
> > I have heard stories of Lexus dealers and other brands getting this type

of
> > thing done to their vehicles at every scheduled maintenance service.

Just
> > thought Toyota would adopt this practice to their vehicles as a means to
> > follow through (if not extend) the Kaizen process.
> >
> > Any thoughts?

>



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Old 14 Oct 2003, 09:18 am   #4 (permalink)
Philip
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Default Re: Toyota TSB - Why don't dealers contact customers of affected vehicles?

CarGuy... All you have to do is understand that not every little
factory discovery about your car is worthy of an expensive All Points
Bulletin broadcast mail notice to all owners! Real safety issues
(Recalls) are worth a broadcast mailing. As far as customer
satisfaction is concerned, plenty of people would bitch if they were
hung by a brand new rope.
--

~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

>In newsCSib.1080$F31.142457@news20.bellglobal.com,
>Car Guy <nothing@something.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> Thanks for your information.
>
> I would still think that if the problem exists on 200x Camry's
> built from Jan to June, with a specific option, etc (i.e. matched
> in the VIN number series), there should be the focus to put this
> info in the customer file so that when they come in for service,
> this issue is taken care of as a customer focus mandate.
>
> Its a pity auto manufacturers are only concerned about making
> revenue and not customer satisfaction.
>
> "C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:3F8BE942.32F017B9@mindspring.com...
> > TSB are service tips that tell shops how to handle common
> > Customer complaints and problems. Not every vehicle will suffer
> > from the problems and not all Customer will be concerned about
> > some of the others. If you notice a problem and there is a
> > related TSB, then your chances of getting a good first time fix
> > are enhanced. But just because there is a TSB for your car,
> > doesn't mean you need the fix described. A lot of TSBs merely
> > describe the proper methods to be used or notify the service
> > departments that new parts are available. Calling up Customers
> > and telling them that there car might be affected by a
> > particular TSB seems like a bad idea if the Customer is not
> > having a problem. Personally I'd like my car to stay out of the
> > shop unless there is a problem. For serious problems, auto
> > makers issue recalls.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ed White
> >
> > Car Guy wrote:
> >
> > > I have got my hand on all the 2002 Camry LE & LE V6 TSB's and
> > > been looking them over with great interest. It seems that
> > > some quirks that I have observed happened to have TSB's for
> > > them.
> > >
> > > I just wonder why Toyota Dealers not do a lookup of any
> > > outstanding TSB's that correspond to the VIN number of the
> > > vehicle and contact the customer? I could see this as being
> > > extra traffic in the service bays, but would that not be
> > > indicative of a customer centered organization?
> > >
> > > I have heard stories of Lexus dealers and other brands getting
> > > this type of thing done to their vehicles at every scheduled
> > > maintenance service. Just thought Toyota would adopt this
> > > practice to their vehicles as a means to follow through (if
> > > not extend) the Kaizen process.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts?




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Old 14 Oct 2003, 10:46 am   #5 (permalink)
Wolfgang
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Default Re: Toyota TSB - Why don't dealers contact customers of affected vehicles?

How much more would you be willing to pay for this added
customer service? It would be added to the purchase price
for sure. Assume if enough wanted it AllData would gladly
oblige if they could make a buck on it. I'd rather just
periodically check the Free AllData site or keep ear to this
NG.


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Old 14 Oct 2003, 02:14 pm   #6 (permalink)
Anthony Giorgianni
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Default Re: Toyota TSB - Why don't dealers contact customers of affected vehicles?

Ed -

I've got every Ford TSB issued since mid-1992 (at least for the Northeast
region), and I think they contain a lot of meaty stuff that vehicle owners
should be aware of.

Just from the set I today from Ford (sorry, I don't get the Toyota ones):

Engine cooling fan inoperative 2003 Town Car (service procedure only)
Moisture in headlamp assembly - 98-2000 Crown Victoria and 2003 Expedition
Power rear window rattle on 2001-2004 Explorer Sport Trac
Power rear window bounces back open when closing - 2001-2004 Sport Trac
Harsh ride on certain 2003 Crown Victorias
Low range or no start condition on 2002 Think Neighbor (a very odd little
vehicle)
Steering or limited slip chatter or shudder 2003 Expedition and Navigator
Buzz, rattle or exhaust noise from 1998-2001 Mountaineer/Explorer
Brake pulls - 4x4 1999-2003 F Super Duty and 2000-2001 Excursion
Hard start/no start/battery lamp flicker 2002-2003 Focus
Steering shudder or vibration at low speed or stop on 2001-2003 Explorer and
2001-2004 Sport Trac

It seems that owners of these vehicles would be very happy to know they
should look out for these problems. Also, there have been several instances
in which I had to tell my Ford dealer about the availability of a TSB for a
certain problem - including the infamous quarter-panel rust-through in 91-93
models. The dealers just don't read or don't remember or don't check or
something!

I think it's the case that manufacturers are not crazy about TSBs getting
out because it means people will be running in with their vehicles all the
time asking for a repair of things that aren't necessarily broken. Also,
without knowing about a TSB, a person may think the something like a
vibration or knock is normal behavior and not report it for warranty action,
which save the manufacturer money. Furthermore, I think that TSBs often are
sort of proof of a defect in design or manufacturer that could have warranty
implications - especially for the implied warranty of merchantability. I'm
not sure DEALERS would want to publicize TSBs since the manufacturer
reimbursement rates for work done under warranty often is less than a dealer
would charge for non-warranty work. Yet, I have had dealer eager to perform
TSB items under warranty - so the original poster my not be that far off.
Maybe dealers SHOULD give vehicle owners access to TSB or inform them during
service checks etc.

While it is true that not every vehicle will exhibit a problem described in
a TSB for that year and model, it is essential in my view for car and truck
owners to know what's out there and what to be on guard for. For my 92
Explorer, I discovered several problems after seeing TSBs on then, problems
that I might not have known about otherwise, at least for a while.

Examples are (I know you know about these from the Explorer newsgroup):

Dimple problem in the seat track that prevented the seats from moving back
and forth.
Radial arm bushing problem.
Need to replace corrosive petroleum brake slide grease with di-electric
compound
Advice against turning rotors unnecessarily during brake pad replacement
(one that I know YOU know about)
Repeated warnings about the need to torque lug nuts to prevent rotor
warping.

I've learned TONS from TSBs. They've also helped me in negotiating
after-warranty repair reimbursement from Ford.

As far as recalls, manufacturers do NOT necessarily conduct recalls for
major problems unless there is a safety or environmental issue involved (and
some times not even then, despite the legal requirements that they do so!).

I seems to me that Toyota puts out far fewer TSBs than Ford. I do not know
if this is because Toyotas are better built (which they are) and/or because
Toyota is not as aggressive as Ford in tracking and reporting problems.

For those who don't know, SUMMARIES of TSB are available for free by make,
model and year from www.nhtsa.gov

See you back on the Explorer newsgroup, Ed.


--
Regards,
Anthony Giorgianni

The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting back
to the newsgroup.

"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3F8BE942.32F017B9@mindspring.com...
> TSB are service tips that tell shops how to handle common Customer

complaints
> and problems. Not every vehicle will suffer from the problems and not all
> Customer will be concerned about some of the others. If you notice a

problem
> and there is a related TSB, then your chances of getting a good first time

fix
> are enhanced. But just because there is a TSB for your car, doesn't mean

you
> need the fix described. A lot of TSBs merely describe the proper methods

to be
> used or notify the service departments that new parts are available.

Calling up
> Customers and telling them that there car might be affected by a

particular TSB
> seems like a bad idea if the Customer is not having a problem. Personally

I'd
> like my car to stay out of the shop unless there is a problem. For serious
> problems, auto makers issue recalls.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed White
>
> Car Guy wrote:
>
> > I have got my hand on all the 2002 Camry LE & LE V6 TSB's and been

looking
> > them over with great interest. It seems that some quirks that I have
> > observed happened to have TSB's for them.
> >
> > I just wonder why Toyota Dealers not do a lookup of any outstanding

TSB's
> > that correspond to the VIN number of the vehicle and contact the

customer?
> > I could see this as being extra traffic in the service bays, but would

that
> > not be indicative of a customer centered organization?
> >
> > I have heard stories of Lexus dealers and other brands getting this type

of
> > thing done to their vehicles at every scheduled maintenance service.

Just
> > thought Toyota would adopt this practice to their vehicles as a means to
> > follow through (if not extend) the Kaizen process.
> >
> > Any thoughts?

>



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Old 14 Oct 2003, 02:22 pm   #7 (permalink)
Anthony Giorgianni
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Default Re: Toyota TSB - Why don't dealers contact customers of affected vehicles?

Wolgang

I'm not sure why an effort that might gain MORE business for a dealer would
add to customer costs.

Actually, if it helped dealers get more work, it might make a dealer MORE
competitive, in addition to being a great customer service (not everyone
knows about AllData, NHTSA or even about TSBs. On the other hand, I'm not
sure that such a service would help dealers earn more, especially if the
manufacturer warranty reimbursement rates are not high enough.

One of Connecticut's consumer commissioners years back (or maybe a DMV
commissioner) told me that he thought it would be a good idea for dealers to
put TSBs in their waiting areas and let customers read through them, maybe
even charge for copies.


--
Regards,
Anthony Giorgianni

The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting back
to the newsgroup.


"Wolfgang" <spamxseitzg@cox.net> wrote in message
news:dUUib.88057$k74.54889@lakeread05...
> How much more would you be willing to pay for this added
> customer service? It would be added to the purchase price
> for sure. Assume if enough wanted it AllData would gladly
> oblige if they could make a buck on it. I'd rather just
> periodically check the Free AllData site or keep ear to this
> NG.
>
>



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Old 14 Oct 2003, 02:33 pm   #8 (permalink)
C. E. White
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Default Re: Toyota TSB - Why don't dealers contact customers of affectedvehicles?

I think the old saying "ignorance is bliss" might apply here.

BTW, what does the Mositure in the Headlamps TSB say? I don't have any moisture
in my healamps, but maybe I should start taking them apart if there is a
problem.

Regards,

Ed White

Anthony Giorgianni wrote:

> Ed -
>
> I've got every Ford TSB issued since mid-1992 (at least for the Northeast
> region), and I think they contain a lot of meaty stuff that vehicle owners
> should be aware of.
>
> Just from the set I today from Ford (sorry, I don't get the Toyota ones):
>
> Engine cooling fan inoperative 2003 Town Car (service procedure only)
> Moisture in headlamp assembly - 98-2000 Crown Victoria and 2003 Expedition
> Power rear window rattle on 2001-2004 Explorer Sport Trac
> Power rear window bounces back open when closing - 2001-2004 Sport Trac
> Harsh ride on certain 2003 Crown Victorias
> Low range or no start condition on 2002 Think Neighbor (a very odd little
> vehicle)
> Steering or limited slip chatter or shudder 2003 Expedition and Navigator
> Buzz, rattle or exhaust noise from 1998-2001 Mountaineer/Explorer
> Brake pulls - 4x4 1999-2003 F Super Duty and 2000-2001 Excursion
> Hard start/no start/battery lamp flicker 2002-2003 Focus
> Steering shudder or vibration at low speed or stop on 2001-2003 Explorer and
> 2001-2004 Sport Trac
>
> It seems that owners of these vehicles would be very happy to know they
> should look out for these problems. Also, there have been several instances
> in which I had to tell my Ford dealer about the availability of a TSB for a
> certain problem - including the infamous quarter-panel rust-through in 91-93
> models. The dealers just don't read or don't remember or don't check or
> something!
>
> I think it's the case that manufacturers are not crazy about TSBs getting
> out because it means people will be running in with their vehicles all the
> time asking for a repair of things that aren't necessarily broken. Also,
> without knowing about a TSB, a person may think the something like a
> vibration or knock is normal behavior and not report it for warranty action,
> which save the manufacturer money. Furthermore, I think that TSBs often are
> sort of proof of a defect in design or manufacturer that could have warranty
> implications - especially for the implied warranty of merchantability. I'm
> not sure DEALERS would want to publicize TSBs since the manufacturer
> reimbursement rates for work done under warranty often is less than a dealer
> would charge for non-warranty work. Yet, I have had dealer eager to perform
> TSB items under warranty - so the original poster my not be that far off.
> Maybe dealers SHOULD give vehicle owners access to TSB or inform them during
> service checks etc.
>
> While it is true that not every vehicle will exhibit a problem described in
> a TSB for that year and model, it is essential in my view for car and truck
> owners to know what's out there and what to be on guard for. For my 92
> Explorer, I discovered several problems after seeing TSBs on then, problems
> that I might not have known about otherwise, at least for a while.
>
> Examples are (I know you know about these from the Explorer newsgroup):
>
> Dimple problem in the seat track that prevented the seats from moving back
> and forth.
> Radial arm bushing problem.
> Need to replace corrosive petroleum brake slide grease with di-electric
> compound
> Advice against turning rotors unnecessarily during brake pad replacement
> (one that I know YOU know about)
> Repeated warnings about the need to torque lug nuts to prevent rotor
> warping.
>
> I've learned TONS from TSBs. They've also helped me in negotiating
> after-warranty repair reimbursement from Ford.
>
> As far as recalls, manufacturers do NOT necessarily conduct recalls for
> major problems unless there is a safety or environmental issue involved (and
> some times not even then, despite the legal requirements that they do so!).
>
> I seems to me that Toyota puts out far fewer TSBs than Ford. I do not know
> if this is because Toyotas are better built (which they are) and/or because
> Toyota is not as aggressive as Ford in tracking and reporting problems.
>
> For those who don't know, SUMMARIES of TSB are available for free by make,
> model and year from www.nhtsa.gov
>
> See you back on the Explorer newsgroup, Ed.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Anthony Giorgianni
>
> The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting back
> to the newsgroup.
>
> "C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:3F8BE942.32F017B9@mindspring.com...
> > TSB are service tips that tell shops how to handle common Customer

> complaints
> > and problems. Not every vehicle will suffer from the problems and not all
> > Customer will be concerned about some of the others. If you notice a

> problem
> > and there is a related TSB, then your chances of getting a good first time

> fix
> > are enhanced. But just because there is a TSB for your car, doesn't mean

> you
> > need the fix described. A lot of TSBs merely describe the proper methods

> to be
> > used or notify the service departments that new parts are available.

> Calling up
> > Customers and telling them that there car might be affected by a

> particular TSB
> > seems like a bad idea if the Customer is not having a problem. Personally

> I'd
> > like my car to stay out of the shop unless there is a problem. For serious
> > problems, auto makers issue recalls.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ed White
> >
> > Car Guy wrote:
> >
> > > I have got my hand on all the 2002 Camry LE & LE V6 TSB's and been

> looking
> > > them over with great interest. It seems that some quirks that I have
> > > observed happened to have TSB's for them.
> > >
> > > I just wonder why Toyota Dealers not do a lookup of any outstanding

> TSB's
> > > that correspond to the VIN number of the vehicle and contact the

> customer?
> > > I could see this as being extra traffic in the service bays, but would

> that
> > > not be indicative of a customer centered organization?
> > >
> > > I have heard stories of Lexus dealers and other brands getting this type

> of
> > > thing done to their vehicles at every scheduled maintenance service.

> Just
> > > thought Toyota would adopt this practice to their vehicles as a means to
> > > follow through (if not extend) the Kaizen process.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts?

> >


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Old 14 Oct 2003, 06:51 pm   #9 (permalink)
Rich Lockyer
Guest
  • Posts: n/a
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Default Re: Toyota TSB - Why don't dealers contact customers of affected vehicles?

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 07:19:48 -0400, "Car Guy" <nothing@something.com>
wrote:

>I have got my hand on all the 2002 Camry LE & LE V6 TSB's and been looking
>them over with great interest. It seems that some quirks that I have
>observed happened to have TSB's for them.
>
>I just wonder why Toyota Dealers not do a lookup of any outstanding TSB's
>that correspond to the VIN number of the vehicle and contact the customer?
>I could see this as being extra traffic in the service bays, but would that
>not be indicative of a customer centered organization?
>
>I have heard stories of Lexus dealers and other brands getting this type of
>thing done to their vehicles at every scheduled maintenance service. Just
>thought Toyota would adopt this practice to their vehicles as a means to
>follow through (if not extend) the Kaizen process.
>
>Any thoughts?
>


A TSB is not a recall. It is intended to be performed only if the
customer complains of a problem, or the mechanic feels that the TSB is
warranted during regular servicing.

Lexus dealers may very well offer TSBs... different "caliber" of
customer (and they paid dearly for that little "L" on the grille).
I think they deserve a level of service a bit higher than the Toyota
customer.



--- Rich
http://richlockyer.tripod.com/
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Old 14 Oct 2003, 07:02 pm   #10 (permalink)
Anthony Giorgianni
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Default Re: Toyota TSB - Why don't dealers contact customers of affected vehicles?

I hate to ruin your bliss by telling you what the TSB says )

But....

It says to seal the lens and the housing of affected headlamp assembly and
then gives 5 pages of procedures and drawings. It is quite involved, using
hair dryer, silicon gasket, etc. If you want it, let me know, I think I can
arrange it. TSB: 03-19-3.

Sorry Toyota group members.


Regards,
Anthony Giorgianni

"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3F8C4F7D.605C36E2@mindspring.com...
> I think the old saying "ignorance is bliss" might apply here.
>
> BTW, what does the Mositure in the Headlamps TSB say? I don't have any

moisture
> in my healamps, but maybe I should start taking them apart if there is a
> problem.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed White
>
> Anthony Giorgianni wrote:
>
> > Ed -
> >
> > I've got every Ford TSB issued since mid-1992 (at least for the

Northeast
> > region), and I think they contain a lot of meaty stuff that vehicle

owners
> > should be aware of.
> >
> > Just from the set I today from Ford (sorry, I don't get the Toyota

ones):
> >
> > Engine cooling fan inoperative 2003 Town Car (service procedure only)
> > Moisture in headlamp assembly - 98-2000 Crown Victoria and 2003

Expedition
> > Power rear window rattle on 2001-2004 Explorer Sport Trac
> > Power rear window bounces back open when closing - 2001-2004 Sport Trac
> > Harsh ride on certain 2003 Crown Victorias
> > Low range or no start condition on 2002 Think Neighbor (a very odd

little
> > vehicle)
> > Steering or limited slip chatter or shudder 2003 Expedition and

Navigator
> > Buzz, rattle or exhaust noise from 1998-2001 Mountaineer/Explorer
> > Brake pulls - 4x4 1999-2003 F Super Duty and 2000-2001 Excursion
> > Hard start/no start/battery lamp flicker 2002-2003 Focus
> > Steering shudder or vibration at low speed or stop on 2001-2003 Explorer

and
> > 2001-2004 Sport Trac
> >
> > It seems that owners of these vehicles would be very happy to know they
> > should look out for these problems. Also, there have been several

instances
> > in which I had to tell my Ford dealer about the availability of a TSB

for a
> > certain problem - including the infamous quarter-panel rust-through in

91-93
> > models. The dealers just don't read or don't remember or don't check or
> > something!
> >
> > I think it's the case that manufacturers are not crazy about TSBs

getting
> > out because it means people will be running in with their vehicles all

the
> > time asking for a repair of things that aren't necessarily broken. Also,
> > without knowing about a TSB, a person may think the something like a
> > vibration or knock is normal behavior and not report it for warranty

action,
> > which save the manufacturer money. Furthermore, I think that TSBs often

are
> > sort of proof of a defect in design or manufacturer that could have

warranty
> > implications - especially for the implied warranty of merchantability.

I'm
> > not sure DEALERS would want to publicize TSBs since the manufacturer
> > reimbursement rates for work done under warranty often is less than a

dealer
> > would charge for non-warranty work. Yet, I have had dealer eager to

perform
> > TSB items under warranty - so the original poster my not be that far

off.
> > Maybe dealers SHOULD give vehicle owners access to TSB or inform them

during
> > service checks etc.
> >
> > While it is true that not every vehicle will exhibit a problem described

in
> > a TSB for that year and model, it is essential in my view for car and

truck
> > owners to know what's out there and what to be on guard for. For my 92
> > Explorer, I discovered several problems after seeing TSBs on then,

problems
> > that I might not have known about otherwise, at least for a while.
> >
> > Examples are (I know you know about these from the Explorer newsgroup):
> >
> > Dimple problem in the seat track that prevented the seats from moving

back
> > and forth.
> > Radial arm bushing problem.
> > Need to replace corrosive petroleum brake slide grease with di-electric
> > compound
> > Advice against turning rotors unnecessarily during brake pad replacement
> > (one that I know YOU know about)
> > Repeated warnings about the need to torque lug nuts to prevent rotor
> > warping.
> >
> > I've learned TONS from TSBs. They've also helped me in negotiating
> > after-warranty repair reimbursement from Ford.
> >
> > As far as recalls, manufacturers do NOT necessarily conduct recalls for
> > major problems unless there is a safety or environmental issue involved

(and
> > some times not even then, despite the legal requirements that they do

so!).
> >
> > I seems to me that Toyota puts out far fewer TSBs than Ford. I do not

know
> > if this is because Toyotas are better built (which they are) and/or

because
> > Toyota is not as aggressive as Ford in tracking and reporting problems.
> >
> > For those who don't know, SUMMARIES of TSB are available for free by

make,
> > model and year from www.nhtsa.gov
> >
> > See you back on the Explorer newsgroup, Ed.
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Anthony Giorgianni
> >
> > The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting

back
> > to the newsgroup.
> >
> > "C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> > news:3F8BE942.32F017B9@mindspring.com...
> > > TSB are service tips that tell shops how to handle common Customer

> > complaints
> > > and problems. Not every vehicle will suffer from the problems and not

all
> > > Customer will be concerned about some of the others. If you notice a

> > problem
> > > and there is a related TSB, then your chances of getting a good first

time
> > fix
> > > are enhanced. But just because there is a TSB for your car, doesn't

mean
> > you
> > > need the fix described. A lot of TSBs merely describe the proper

methods
> > to be
> > > used or notify the service departments that new parts are available.

> > Calling up
> > > Customers and telling them that there car might be affected by a

> > particular TSB
> > > seems like a bad idea if the Customer is not having a problem.

Personally
> > I'd
> > > like my car to stay out of the shop unless there is a problem. For

serious
> > > problems, auto makers issue recalls.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Ed White
> > >
> > > Car Guy wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have got my hand on all the 2002 Camry LE & LE V6 TSB's and been

> > looking
> > > > them over with great interest. It seems that some quirks that I

have
> > > > observed happened to have TSB's for them.
> > > >
> > > > I just wonder why Toyota Dealers not do a lookup of any outstanding

> > TSB's
> > > > that correspond to the VIN number of the vehicle and contact the

> > customer?
> > > > I could see this as being extra traffic in the service bays, but

would
> > that
> > > > not be indicative of a customer centered organization?
> > > >
> > > > I have heard stories of Lexus dealers and other brands getting this

type
> > of
> > > > thing done to their vehicles at every scheduled maintenance service.

> > Just
> > > > thought Toyota would adopt this practice to their vehicles as a

means to
> > > > follow through (if not extend) the Kaizen process.
> > > >
> > > > Any thoughts?
> > >

>



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