Brake override ?

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Old 17 Feb 2010, 11:13 am   #1 (permalink)
Johnny Melvin
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Default Brake override ?

They are now talking about fitting "a brake override "
What the hell is that ?

Johnny UK


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Old 17 Feb 2010, 01:46 pm   #2 (permalink)
ransley
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Default Re: Brake override ?

On Feb 17, 11:13*am, "Johnny Melvin" <joh...@melvin.com> wrote:
> They are now talking about fitting "a brake override "
> What the hell is that ?
>
> Johnny UK


An anchor you throw out the window, and a quick release floor panel so
you can use your feet.
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Old 17 Feb 2010, 01:51 pm   #3 (permalink)
Johnny Melvin
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Default Re: Brake override ?


"ransley" <Mark_Ransley@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6d4a3f25-8c9b-4724-827a-8ebe78018a3b@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 17, 11:13 am, "Johnny Melvin" <joh...@melvin.com> wrote:
> They are now talking about fitting "a brake override "
> What the hell is that ?
>
> Johnny UK


An anchor you throw out the window, and a quick release floor panel so
you can use your feet.

Got it.
Like I did on my nailed together orange box go cart
in the 40s.

Shoes are as expensive as brake pads now.

Thanks,,, SMILES

Johnny UK


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Old 17 Feb 2010, 09:47 pm   #4 (permalink)
john
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Default Re: Brake override ?

LOL!!! That's a good one!

Well it's basically a software update that the dealer can download
into the ECU so that when the accelerator and brake pedals are pressed
at the same time, the brake pedal will cancel out the accelerator
actuation. Expert said that if this was in place, more than 30 lives
may have been spared.

My understanding is that Toyota has no plan yet to update vehicles
already sold -- only for new production. Sounds like a terrible plan
to me.



On Feb 17, 11:46*am, ransley <Mark_Rans...@Yahoo.com> wrote:

> An anchor you throw out the window, and a quick release floor panel so
> you can use your feet.


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Old 18 Feb 2010, 07:37 am   #5 (permalink)
ransley
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Default Re: Brake override ?

On Feb 17, 9:47*pm, john <johngd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> LOL!!! That's a good one!
>
> Well it's basically a software update that the dealer can download
> into the ECU so that when the accelerator and brake pedals are pressed
> at the same time, the brake pedal will cancel out the accelerator
> actuation. Expert said that if this was in place, more than 30 lives
> may have been spared.
>
> My understanding is that Toyota has no plan yet to update vehicles
> already sold -- only for new production. Sounds like a terrible plan
> to me.
>
> On Feb 17, 11:46*am, ransley <Mark_Rans...@Yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > An anchor you throw out the window, and a quick release floor panel so
> > you can use your feet.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -


So maybe a 30 minute dealer fix toyota bean counters think isnt worth
the cost, that its cheaper to pay a few claims then fix it. The
families of the 30 dead and many injured deserve compensation and
damages
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Old 18 Feb 2010, 01:19 pm   #6 (permalink)
C. E. White
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Default Re: Brake override ?


"Johnny Melvin" <johnny@melvin.com> wrote in message
news:KsVen.4662$yV6.4117@newsfe27.ams2...
> They are now talking about fitting "a brake override "
> What the hell is that ?


The idea is tha if you press on the brake, the engine controller will
slow down/shut down the engine regardless of whether you are pressing
on just the brake or both the brake and accelerator pedal at the same
time. This is easy to do if you have an electrically operated
throttle.

For instance - say you accidentally misplace your foot and press on
the brake and the throttle at the same time. The car might lurch
forward or not slow properly - except, the PCM sees that you are
pressing on the brake and automagically slows the engine down.

The downside is that you'll kill your 0-60 and 1/4 mile times if you
have an automatic and you try to pre-oad the torque convertor by
deliberately pressing both pedals, the vehicle won't work well in
rallyes where you might use the brakes to modify the steering
behavior, and probably something else will go terribly wrong...

Ed


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Old 18 Feb 2010, 01:22 pm   #7 (permalink)
C. E. White
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Default Re: Brake override ?


"ransley" <Mark_Ransley@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6bfba8e8-6b05-48ac-841d-1d0ffd1d667a@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...


> So maybe a 30 minute dealer fix toyota bean counters think isnt
> worth
> the cost, that its cheaper to pay a few claims then fix it. The
> families of the 30 dead and many injured deserve compensation and
> damages


I talked this over with my SO. She is a software engineer / tester.
She said there is no way she would want them to reflash the PCM in her
Toyota to implement this strategy unless it has been tested for a long
time.....I think the idea is - fix a bug, create a bug......

The code to implement this feature is probably not something you want
to turn loose on the real world without a lot of testing.

Ed


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Old 18 Feb 2010, 04:15 pm   #8 (permalink)
dsi1
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Default Re: Brake override ?

On 2/18/2010 9:19 AM, C. E. White wrote:
> "Johnny Melvin"<johnny@melvin.com> wrote in message
> news:KsVen.4662$yV6.4117@newsfe27.ams2...
>> They are now talking about fitting "a brake override "
>> What the hell is that ?

>
> The idea is tha if you press on the brake, the engine controller will
> slow down/shut down the engine regardless of whether you are pressing
> on just the brake or both the brake and accelerator pedal at the same
> time. This is easy to do if you have an electrically operated
> throttle.


If you ask me, it should be called an accelerator override.

>
> For instance - say you accidentally misplace your foot and press on
> the brake and the throttle at the same time. The car might lurch
> forward or not slow properly - except, the PCM sees that you are
> pressing on the brake and automagically slows the engine down.



The main problem is that it doesn't appear to help with the main cause
of unintended acceleration - stepping on the accelerator and holding it
down because you're convinced it's the brake. You must be an old-school
driver or a drag racing nut if you think both feet on the pedals is
normal behavior. :-)

>
> The downside is that you'll kill your 0-60 and 1/4 mile times if you
> have an automatic and you try to pre-oad the torque convertor by
> deliberately pressing both pedals, the vehicle won't work well in
> rallyes where you might use the brakes to modify the steering
> behavior, and probably something else will go terribly wrong...
>
> Ed
>
>


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Old 18 Feb 2010, 04:26 pm   #9 (permalink)
ransley
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Default Re: Brake override ?

On Feb 18, 4:15*pm, dsi1 <d...@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote:
> On 2/18/2010 9:19 AM, C. E. White wrote:
>
> > "Johnny Melvin"<joh...@melvin.com> *wrote in message
> >news:KsVen.4662$yV6.4117@newsfe27.ams2...
> >> They are now talking about fitting "a brake override "
> >> What the hell is that ?

>
> > The idea is tha if you press on the brake, the engine controller will
> > slow down/shut down the engine regardless of whether you are pressing
> > on just the brake or both the brake and accelerator pedal at the same
> > time. This is easy to do if you have an electrically operated
> > throttle.

>
> If you ask me, it should be called an accelerator override.
>
>
>
> > For instance - say you accidentally misplace your foot and press on
> > the brake and the throttle at the same time. The car might lurch
> > forward or not slow properly - except, the PCM sees that you are
> > pressing on the brake and automagically slows the engine down.

>
> The main problem is that it doesn't appear to help with the main cause
> of unintended acceleration - stepping on the accelerator and holding it
> down because you're convinced it's the brake. You must be an old-school
> driver or a drag racing nut if you think both feet on the pedals is
> normal behavior. :-)
>
>
>
>
>
> > The downside is that you'll kill your 0-60 and 1/4 mile times if you
> > have an automatic and you try to pre-oad the torque convertor by
> > deliberately pressing both pedals, the vehicle won't work well in
> > rallyes where you might use the brakes to modify the steering
> > behavior, and probably something else will go terribly wrong...

>
> > Ed- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -


They already have an accelerator overide, put in neutral and pull the
handbrake, the boat anchor and opening for your feet to brake are
optional and being discussed.
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Old 18 Feb 2010, 04:43 pm   #10 (permalink)
dsi1
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Default Re: Brake override ?

On 2/18/2010 12:26 PM, ransley wrote:
>
> They already have an accelerator overide, put in neutral and pull the
> handbrake, the boat anchor and opening for your feet to brake are
> optional and being discussed.


I don't care much for that idea. The majority of people using the
handbrake will forget to hold the release button in, lock up the rear
end, and find their rear end coming about. Throwing a boat anchor out
the window might be as effective. Flintstones type braking is a silly
idea - I'm thinking parachutes, retro-rockets and Batmobile-style
grappling hooks. :-)
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