Avalon steering

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Old 21 Feb 2004, 06:21 pm   #1 (permalink)
George Wilson
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Default Avalon steering

Several months ago I posted a question here regarding my 2003 Avalon which
seems to have a tendency to want to head for the left ditch too quickly when
driving in the inside lane (lane sloped to the left for water runoff) of a
multi-lane highway. The tendency is enough that constant right pressure on
the wheel is required. However, it will track straight when on a perfectly
flat lane and will ever so slightly and slowly drift right if in the far
right lane (lane sloping to the right). Several persons replied that they
had experienced the same thing.

Since the Avalon and the Camry as essentially the same car, does anyone know
if the Avalon shares the same steering system as the Camry. If so, and if
this is a design problem, then I would think anyone driving a Camry would
experience the same.

Comments, suggestions, opinions, etc from anyone welcome.

Thanks.

George


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Old 22 Feb 2004, 07:24 am   #2 (permalink)
IceMan
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Default Re: Avalon steering

See Tramlining. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/tiretech.htm

"George Wilson" <gwilson4@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:xCSZb.23565$%d3.2303347@twister.southeast.rr. com...
> Several months ago I posted a question here regarding my 2003 Avalon

which
> seems to have a tendency to want to head for the left ditch too quickly

when
> driving in the inside lane (lane sloped to the left for water runoff) of a
> multi-lane highway. The tendency is enough that constant right pressure

on
> the wheel is required. However, it will track straight when on a

perfectly
> flat lane and will ever so slightly and slowly drift right if in the far
> right lane (lane sloping to the right). Several persons replied that they
> had experienced the same thing.
>
> Since the Avalon and the Camry as essentially the same car, does anyone

know
> if the Avalon shares the same steering system as the Camry. If so, and

if
> this is a design problem, then I would think anyone driving a Camry would
> experience the same.
>
> Comments, suggestions, opinions, etc from anyone welcome.
>
> Thanks.
>
> George
>
>



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Old 22 Feb 2004, 09:19 am   #3 (permalink)
Stevie Ray
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Default Re: Avalon steering

In article <842_b.70273$hR.1464483@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
IceMan <badmineral@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/tiretech.htm


It is not tramlining.
See my other post in this newsgroup RE: Pull to the left. This may be
a bigger problem than I thought, affecting more vehicles.

Steve
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Old 22 Feb 2004, 09:45 am   #4 (permalink)
Philip®
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Default Re: Avalon steering

In news:220220040919473593%stevieray@hotmail.com,
Stevie Ray <stevieray@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> In article
> <842_b.70273$hR.1464483@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> IceMan <badmineral@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> > http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/tiretech.htm

>
> It is not tramlining.
> See my other post in this newsgroup RE: Pull to the left. This
> may be a bigger problem than I thought, affecting more vehicles.
>
> Steve


Uh oh.... another story about bent Camry/Avalon in the works!
--

- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM


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Old 24 Feb 2004, 09:33 pm   #5 (permalink)
news.east.earthlink.net
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Default Re: Avalon steering

By the way Philip, I just had to replace my front tires on the 2001 Avalon
with only 17k miles on them. They've been rotated a few times but
apparently the car went out of alignment and quickly wore the inner treads
of the front tires before I picked up on it. Haven't had to get a car
aligned for over 20 years and I've owned 2 Fords, 2 Chryslers, 3 older
Toyotas, and a Subaru during that time. Avalon apparently has a crappy
front end just like most of the rest of the car.



"Philip®" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:284_b.4754$aT1.3691@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> In news:220220040919473593%stevieray@hotmail.com,
> Stevie Ray <stevieray@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> > In article
> > <842_b.70273$hR.1464483@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> > IceMan <badmineral@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >
> > > http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/tiretech.htm

> >
> > It is not tramlining.
> > See my other post in this newsgroup RE: Pull to the left. This
> > may be a bigger problem than I thought, affecting more vehicles.
> >
> > Steve

>
> Uh oh.... another story about bent Camry/Avalon in the works!
> --
>
> - Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM
>
>



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Old 25 Feb 2004, 01:46 am   #6 (permalink)
Philip®
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Default Re: Avalon steering

In news:QHU_b.20602$hm4.9624@newsread3.news.atl.earth link.net,
news.east.earthlink.net <begunaBUTNOSPAM@mindspring.com> being of
bellicose mind posted:
> "Philip®" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
> news:284_b.4754$aT1.3691@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> > In news:220220040919473593%stevieray@hotmail.com,
> > Stevie Ray <stevieray@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind
> > posted:
> > > In article
> > > <842_b.70273$hR.1464483@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> > > IceMan <badmineral@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/tiretech.htm
> > >
> > > It is not tramlining.
> > > See my other post in this newsgroup RE: Pull to the left. This
> > > may be a bigger problem than I thought, affecting more
> > > vehicles.
> > >
> > > Steve

> >
> > Uh oh.... another story about bent Camry/Avalon in the works!
> > --
> >
> > - Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM


> By the way Philip, I just had to replace my front tires on the
> 2001 Avalon with only 17k miles on them. They've been rotated a
> few times but apparently the car went out of alignment and quickly
> wore the inner treads of the front tires before I picked up on it.
> Haven't had to get a car aligned for over 20 years and I've owned
> 2 Fords, 2 Chryslers, 3 older Toyotas, and a Subaru during that
> time. Avalon apparently has a crappy front end just like most of
> the rest of the car.


FAR more likely is .... your car was set for excessive toe-OUT from
the factory but you didn't pay attention to the early wear signs on
the inner most tread. Tire rotation is a practice I've given up on
with FWD. Leave 'em where they work until the fronts are close to
the wear bars then, rotate fronts to back. Keep on driving. When
the "new" fronts are near the wear bars, buy a new set of four. Once
you get a wear pattern established, moving the tires around is not
going to correct anything because on FWD ... all the rear tires do is
keep the bumper off the ground.

Why so much toe-OUT on FWD cars? Because when you apply power, the
wheels try to turn around the strut which creates toe-IN. But too
much toe-OUT will result in inner tread wear. Have your toe-out set
for no more than 1/16" toe-out. This ain't in the book ... but from
personal experience.

--

- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM


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Old 25 Feb 2004, 09:59 am   #7 (permalink)
Art
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Default Re: Avalon steering

Maybe if Toyota made a stiffer chasis they wouldn't have to compromise
alignment. My 94 Chyrsler LHS and 99 300M wear tires evenly front and
rear.



"Philip®" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:7pY_b.8839$aT1.7648@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> In news:QHU_b.20602$hm4.9624@newsread3.news.atl.earth link.net,
> news.east.earthlink.net <begunaBUTNOSPAM@mindspring.com> being of
> bellicose mind posted:
> > "Philip®" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:284_b.4754$aT1.3691@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> > > In news:220220040919473593%stevieray@hotmail.com,
> > > Stevie Ray <stevieray@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind
> > > posted:
> > > > In article
> > > > <842_b.70273$hR.1464483@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> > > > IceMan <badmineral@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/tiretech.htm
> > > >
> > > > It is not tramlining.
> > > > See my other post in this newsgroup RE: Pull to the left. This
> > > > may be a bigger problem than I thought, affecting more
> > > > vehicles.
> > > >
> > > > Steve
> > >
> > > Uh oh.... another story about bent Camry/Avalon in the works!
> > > --
> > >
> > > - Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM

>
> > By the way Philip, I just had to replace my front tires on the
> > 2001 Avalon with only 17k miles on them. They've been rotated a
> > few times but apparently the car went out of alignment and quickly
> > wore the inner treads of the front tires before I picked up on it.
> > Haven't had to get a car aligned for over 20 years and I've owned
> > 2 Fords, 2 Chryslers, 3 older Toyotas, and a Subaru during that
> > time. Avalon apparently has a crappy front end just like most of
> > the rest of the car.

>
> FAR more likely is .... your car was set for excessive toe-OUT from
> the factory but you didn't pay attention to the early wear signs on
> the inner most tread. Tire rotation is a practice I've given up on
> with FWD. Leave 'em where they work until the fronts are close to
> the wear bars then, rotate fronts to back. Keep on driving. When
> the "new" fronts are near the wear bars, buy a new set of four. Once
> you get a wear pattern established, moving the tires around is not
> going to correct anything because on FWD ... all the rear tires do is
> keep the bumper off the ground.
>
> Why so much toe-OUT on FWD cars? Because when you apply power, the
> wheels try to turn around the strut which creates toe-IN. But too
> much toe-OUT will result in inner tread wear. Have your toe-out set
> for no more than 1/16" toe-out. This ain't in the book ... but from
> personal experience.
>
> --
>
> - Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM
>
>



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Old 25 Feb 2004, 10:54 am   #8 (permalink)
Philip®
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Default Re: Avalon steering

In news:bD3%b.21121$hm4.7446@newsread3.news.atl.earth link.net,
Art <begunaBUTNOSPAM@mindspring.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> "Philip®" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
> news:7pY_b.8839$aT1.7648@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> > In news:QHU_b.20602$hm4.9624@newsread3.news.atl.earth link.net,
> > news.east.earthlink.net <begunaBUTNOSPAM@mindspring.com> being of
> > bellicose mind posted:
> > > "Philip®" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
> > > news:284_b.4754$aT1.3691@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> > > > In news:220220040919473593%stevieray@hotmail.com,
> > > > Stevie Ray <stevieray@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind
> > > > posted:
> > > > > In article
> > > > >

<842_b.70273$hR.1464483@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> > > > > IceMan <badmineral@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/tiretech.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > It is not tramlining.
> > > > > See my other post in this newsgroup RE: Pull to the left.
> > > > > This may be a bigger problem than I thought, affecting more
> > > > > vehicles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve
> > > >
> > > > Uh oh.... another story about bent Camry/Avalon in the works!
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > - Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM

> >
> > > By the way Philip, I just had to replace my front tires on the
> > > 2001 Avalon with only 17k miles on them. They've been rotated
> > > a few times but apparently the car went out of alignment and
> > > quickly wore the inner treads of the front tires before I
> > > picked up on it. Haven't had to get a car aligned for over 20
> > > years and I've owned 2 Fords, 2 Chryslers, 3 older Toyotas,
> > > and a Subaru during that time. Avalon apparently has a crappy
> > > front end just like most of the rest of the car.

> >
> > FAR more likely is .... your car was set for excessive toe-OUT
> > from the factory but you didn't pay attention to the early wear
> > signs on the inner most tread. Tire rotation is a practice I've
> > given up on with FWD. Leave 'em where they work until the
> > fronts are close to the wear bars then, rotate fronts to back.
> > Keep on driving. When the "new" fronts are near the wear bars,
> > buy a new set of four. Once you get a wear pattern established,
> > moving the tires around is not going to correct anything because
> > on FWD ... all the rear tires do is keep the bumper off the
> > ground.
> >
> > Why so much toe-OUT on FWD cars? Because when you apply power,
> > the wheels try to turn around the strut which creates toe-IN.
> > But too much toe-OUT will result in inner tread wear. Have your
> > toe-out set for no more than 1/16" toe-out. This ain't in the
> > book ... but from personal experience.
> > --
> >
> > - Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM


> Maybe if Toyota made a stiffer chasis they wouldn't have to
> compromise alignment. My 94 Chyrsler LHS and 99 300M wear tires
> evenly front and rear.


Lets TEST your knowledge. Please make the case for a connection
between "stiffer chassis" and "wheel alignment." That should keep
you busy for awhile.
--

- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM


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Old 25 Feb 2004, 03:07 pm   #9 (permalink)
Art
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Default Re: Avalon steering

Actually Philip everyone in the worlds knows (perhaps not you) that all
things being equal, the car with a more rigid chasis handles better and that
has got to be easier on the tires.



"Philip®" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:Mq4%b.7698$yZ1.95@newsread2.news.pas.earthlin k.net...
> In news:bD3%b.21121$hm4.7446@newsread3.news.atl.earth link.net,
> Art <begunaBUTNOSPAM@mindspring.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> > "Philip®" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:7pY_b.8839$aT1.7648@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> > > In news:QHU_b.20602$hm4.9624@newsread3.news.atl.earth link.net,
> > > news.east.earthlink.net <begunaBUTNOSPAM@mindspring.com> being of
> > > bellicose mind posted:
> > > > "Philip®" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
> > > > news:284_b.4754$aT1.3691@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> > > > > In news:220220040919473593%stevieray@hotmail.com,
> > > > > Stevie Ray <stevieray@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind
> > > > > posted:
> > > > > > In article
> > > > > >

> <842_b.70273$hR.1464483@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> > > > > > IceMan <badmineral@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/tiretech.htm
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is not tramlining.
> > > > > > See my other post in this newsgroup RE: Pull to the left.
> > > > > > This may be a bigger problem than I thought, affecting more
> > > > > > vehicles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Steve
> > > > >
> > > > > Uh oh.... another story about bent Camry/Avalon in the works!
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > - Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM
> > >
> > > > By the way Philip, I just had to replace my front tires on the
> > > > 2001 Avalon with only 17k miles on them. They've been rotated
> > > > a few times but apparently the car went out of alignment and
> > > > quickly wore the inner treads of the front tires before I
> > > > picked up on it. Haven't had to get a car aligned for over 20
> > > > years and I've owned 2 Fords, 2 Chryslers, 3 older Toyotas,
> > > > and a Subaru during that time. Avalon apparently has a crappy
> > > > front end just like most of the rest of the car.
> > >
> > > FAR more likely is .... your car was set for excessive toe-OUT
> > > from the factory but you didn't pay attention to the early wear
> > > signs on the inner most tread. Tire rotation is a practice I've
> > > given up on with FWD. Leave 'em where they work until the
> > > fronts are close to the wear bars then, rotate fronts to back.
> > > Keep on driving. When the "new" fronts are near the wear bars,
> > > buy a new set of four. Once you get a wear pattern established,
> > > moving the tires around is not going to correct anything because
> > > on FWD ... all the rear tires do is keep the bumper off the
> > > ground.
> > >
> > > Why so much toe-OUT on FWD cars? Because when you apply power,
> > > the wheels try to turn around the strut which creates toe-IN.
> > > But too much toe-OUT will result in inner tread wear. Have your
> > > toe-out set for no more than 1/16" toe-out. This ain't in the
> > > book ... but from personal experience.
> > > --
> > >
> > > - Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM

>
> > Maybe if Toyota made a stiffer chasis they wouldn't have to
> > compromise alignment. My 94 Chyrsler LHS and 99 300M wear tires
> > evenly front and rear.

>
> Lets TEST your knowledge. Please make the case for a connection
> between "stiffer chassis" and "wheel alignment." That should keep
> you busy for awhile.
> --
>
> - Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM
>
>



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Old 25 Feb 2004, 04:07 pm   #10 (permalink)
Artfulcodger
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Default Re: Avalon steering



Art wrote:
> Actually Philip everyone in the worlds knows (perhaps not you) that
> all things being equal, the car with a more rigid chasis handles
> better and that has got to be easier on the tires.


snip snip

Actually Art everyone here knows Philip is the ultimate authority (just ask
him) and now you have started a flame war ;o)
Mike


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