Bosch PLATINUM+4

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Old 23 Feb 2004, 11:59 am   #1 (permalink)
Huang Chung
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Default Bosch PLATINUM+4

Anyone have experience using these plugs in Camrys? They're
pre-gapped, 4 electrodes instead of one, 4 times the platinum of a
normal plug - sounds pretty good to me, how do they stack up against
the Denso, or what would you recommend?

Mine is a 94 Camry LE 4 Cyl - over 200K on it.

Also interested on opinions on using full synthetic motor oil and
weight, thanks!



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Old 23 Feb 2004, 12:22 pm   #2 (permalink)
Mark A
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Default Re: Bosch PLATINUM+4

"Huang Chung" <WangChung@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:hkfk30dmu8d96sk2nhsehpouann6hsiqsr@4ax.com...
> Anyone have experience using these plugs in Camrys? They're
> pre-gapped, 4 electrodes instead of one, 4 times the platinum of a
> normal plug - sounds pretty good to me, how do they stack up against
> the Denso, or what would you recommend?
>
> Mine is a 94 Camry LE 4 Cyl - over 200K on it.
>
> Also interested on opinions on using full synthetic motor oil and
> weight, thanks!
>

The Bosch don't measure up to the Denso or other Toyota OEM plugs.

Not sure I would switch to a full synthetic at 200,000 miles (or
kilometers). Try a synthetic blend 10W-30 or 10W-40.


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Old 23 Feb 2004, 12:41 pm   #3 (permalink)
Philip®
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Default Re: Bosch PLATINUM+4

In news:hkfk30dmu8d96sk2nhsehpouann6hsiqsr@4ax.com,
Huang Chung <WangChung@ev1.net> being of bellicose mind posted:
> Anyone have experience using these plugs in Camrys? They're
> pre-gapped, 4 electrodes instead of one, 4 times the platinum of a
> normal plug - sounds pretty good to me, how do they stack up
> against the Denso, or what would you recommend?
>
> Mine is a 94 Camry LE 4 Cyl - over 200K on it.
>
> Also interested on opinions on using full synthetic motor oil and
> weight, thanks!


I tried a set in my ol 1990 Geo Prizm. When new, the firing voltages
were in the 7-9kv range. Next time I put the car on a scope, the
plugs had 15k miles on them. All firing voltages were 30kv +/- 3kv.
That's a lot of change and there was detectable, sporadic misfiring
during warm-up.

No fuel mileage increase or any other driving improvement noted from
their installation.

Spend your money on platinum tipped conventional sparkers.

As for synthetic oil, again, I ran Mobil1 in the Prizm from 10k miles
until I sold it with 285k on the odometer. Oil consumption was a bit
better than 3k miles per quart of 10w-30 wt. Engine was clean as a
whistle inside (4-5k mile oil change intervals). I'm also running
Mobil1 10w-30 in my 2003 Corolla. This car currently has 36k miles
on it and uses almost no oil between oil changes (5k mile intervals).

--

- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM



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Old 23 Feb 2004, 06:11 pm   #4 (permalink)
JP
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Default Re: Bosch PLATINUM+4

SNIP
>>
>> Also interested on opinions on using full synthetic motor oil and
>> weight, thanks!
>>

> The Bosch don't measure up to the Denso or other Toyota OEM plugs.
>
> Not sure I would switch to a full synthetic at 200,000 miles (or
> kilometers). Try a synthetic blend 10W-30 or 10W-40.


When I bought my 93 Camry, used, last year, I flushed the engine and put
synthetic oil in the engine at 238,000 kilometers. It runs great. Mileage is
irrelevant. Provided the engine is in good condition.

JP


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Old 23 Feb 2004, 09:23 pm   #5 (permalink)
Lance
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Default Re: Bosch PLATINUM+4

why do the voltages go up? Is that because the wear on the plugs requires
the computer to increase the voltage to bridge the (increased) gap?


"Philip®" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:wPr_b.6232$aT1.2236@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> In news:hkfk30dmu8d96sk2nhsehpouann6hsiqsr@4ax.com,
> Huang Chung <WangChung@ev1.net> being of bellicose mind posted:
> > Anyone have experience using these plugs in Camrys? They're
> > pre-gapped, 4 electrodes instead of one, 4 times the platinum of a
> > normal plug - sounds pretty good to me, how do they stack up
> > against the Denso, or what would you recommend?
> >
> > Mine is a 94 Camry LE 4 Cyl - over 200K on it.
> >
> > Also interested on opinions on using full synthetic motor oil and
> > weight, thanks!

>
> I tried a set in my ol 1990 Geo Prizm. When new, the firing voltages
> were in the 7-9kv range. Next time I put the car on a scope, the
> plugs had 15k miles on them. All firing voltages were 30kv +/- 3kv.
> That's a lot of change and there was detectable, sporadic misfiring
> during warm-up.
>
> No fuel mileage increase or any other driving improvement noted from
> their installation.
>
> Spend your money on platinum tipped conventional sparkers.
>
> As for synthetic oil, again, I ran Mobil1 in the Prizm from 10k miles
> until I sold it with 285k on the odometer. Oil consumption was a bit
> better than 3k miles per quart of 10w-30 wt. Engine was clean as a
> whistle inside (4-5k mile oil change intervals). I'm also running
> Mobil1 10w-30 in my 2003 Corolla. This car currently has 36k miles
> on it and uses almost no oil between oil changes (5k mile intervals).
>
> --
>
> - Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM
>
>
>



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Old 23 Feb 2004, 09:49 pm   #6 (permalink)
Philip®
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Default Re: Bosch PLATINUM+4

In
news:Ksz_b.124664$02u1.85830@twister01.bloor.is.ne t.cable.rogers.com,
Lance <buyer@rogers.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> "Philip®" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
> news:wPr_b.6232$aT1.2236@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> > In news:hkfk30dmu8d96sk2nhsehpouann6hsiqsr@4ax.com,
> > Huang Chung <WangChung@ev1.net> being of bellicose mind posted:
> > > Anyone have experience using these plugs in Camrys? They're
> > > pre-gapped, 4 electrodes instead of one, 4 times the platinum
> > > of a normal plug - sounds pretty good to me, how do they stack
> > > up against the Denso, or what would you recommend?
> > >
> > > Mine is a 94 Camry LE 4 Cyl - over 200K on it.
> > >
> > > Also interested on opinions on using full synthetic motor oil
> > > and weight, thanks!

> >
> > I tried a set in my ol 1990 Geo Prizm. When new, the firing
> > voltages were in the 7-9kv range. Next time I put the car on a
> > scope, the plugs had 15k miles on them. All firing voltages
> > were 30kv +/- 3kv. That's a lot of change and there was
> > detectable, sporadic misfiring during warm-up.
> >
> > No fuel mileage increase or any other driving improvement noted
> > from their installation.
> >
> > Spend your money on platinum tipped conventional sparkers.
> >
> > As for synthetic oil, again, I ran Mobil1 in the Prizm from 10k
> > miles until I sold it with 285k on the odometer. Oil
> > consumption was a bit better than 3k miles per quart of 10w-30
> > wt. Engine was clean as a whistle inside (4-5k mile oil change
> > intervals). I'm also running Mobil1 10w-30 in my 2003 Corolla.
> > This car currently has 36k miles on it and uses almost no oil
> > between oil changes (5k mile intervals).
> >
> > --
> >
> > - Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM


(Lance)
> why do the voltages go up? Is that because the wear on the plugs
> requires the computer to increase the voltage to bridge the
> (increased) gap?


Firing voltage is STRICLY a function of resistance across the gap.
Four things increase required firing voltage:

1) Larger gap
2) Rounded electrodes (more votage required for electrons to push off
a rounded surface)
3) Greater air presure within the cylinder.
4) A drier fuel mixture (ie, comparing gasoline to LPG, all else
being equal).
--

- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM




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Old 23 Feb 2004, 10:55 pm   #7 (permalink)
Lance
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Default Re: Bosch PLATINUM+4

the computer must be sending the signal for the higher voltage in your
second measurement in order to compensate for the increased resistance
(increased gap, rounded electrode etc etc) that is limiting the current.

voltage does not change for this gap unless it is changed at the source. am
i correct?


"Philip®" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:qRz_b.6908$aT1.5930@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> In
> news:Ksz_b.124664$02u1.85830@twister01.bloor.is.ne t.cable.rogers.com,
> Lance <buyer@rogers.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> > "Philip®" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:wPr_b.6232$aT1.2236@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> > > In news:hkfk30dmu8d96sk2nhsehpouann6hsiqsr@4ax.com,
> > > Huang Chung <WangChung@ev1.net> being of bellicose mind posted:
> > > > Anyone have experience using these plugs in Camrys? They're
> > > > pre-gapped, 4 electrodes instead of one, 4 times the platinum
> > > > of a normal plug - sounds pretty good to me, how do they stack
> > > > up against the Denso, or what would you recommend?
> > > >
> > > > Mine is a 94 Camry LE 4 Cyl - over 200K on it.
> > > >
> > > > Also interested on opinions on using full synthetic motor oil
> > > > and weight, thanks!
> > >
> > > I tried a set in my ol 1990 Geo Prizm. When new, the firing
> > > voltages were in the 7-9kv range. Next time I put the car on a
> > > scope, the plugs had 15k miles on them. All firing voltages
> > > were 30kv +/- 3kv. That's a lot of change and there was
> > > detectable, sporadic misfiring during warm-up.
> > >
> > > No fuel mileage increase or any other driving improvement noted
> > > from their installation.
> > >
> > > Spend your money on platinum tipped conventional sparkers.
> > >
> > > As for synthetic oil, again, I ran Mobil1 in the Prizm from 10k
> > > miles until I sold it with 285k on the odometer. Oil
> > > consumption was a bit better than 3k miles per quart of 10w-30
> > > wt. Engine was clean as a whistle inside (4-5k mile oil change
> > > intervals). I'm also running Mobil1 10w-30 in my 2003 Corolla.
> > > This car currently has 36k miles on it and uses almost no oil
> > > between oil changes (5k mile intervals).
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > - Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM

>
> (Lance)
> > why do the voltages go up? Is that because the wear on the plugs
> > requires the computer to increase the voltage to bridge the
> > (increased) gap?

>
> Firing voltage is STRICLY a function of resistance across the gap.
> Four things increase required firing voltage:
>
> 1) Larger gap
> 2) Rounded electrodes (more votage required for electrons to push off
> a rounded surface)
> 3) Greater air presure within the cylinder.
> 4) A drier fuel mixture (ie, comparing gasoline to LPG, all else
> being equal).
> --
>
> - Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM
>
>
>
>



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Old 24 Feb 2004, 08:24 am   #8 (permalink)
C. E. White
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Default Re: Bosch PLATINUM+4



Lance wrote:

> why do the voltages go up? Is that because the wear on the plugs requires
> the computer to increase the voltage to bridge the (increased) gap?


The voltage goes up because of physics. A higher voltage is required for a
electrical circuit to bridge across a larger gap. When the primary voltage in
a coil "collapses", the energy generated in (transferred to is probably a
better term) the secondary windings has to go somewhere. The voltage builds
in the secondary winding until the energy can be dissipated. As long as the
secondary insulation is in good shape, the voltage builds until it can bridge
the spark plug gap. A larger gap requires a higher voltage for the circuit to
bridge the gap (all other things being equal). If the gap is too large, the
voltage may build to the point that the circuit is completed through some
other component (i.e., through the wire insulation, or arcing inside the
distributor, or by arcing inside the coil).

References:

http://claymore.engineer.gvsu.edu/~j...r2/paper2.html

Regards,

Ed White


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Old 24 Feb 2004, 08:35 am   #9 (permalink)
C. E. White
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Default Re: Bosch PLATINUM+4



Lance wrote:

> the computer must be sending the signal for the higher voltage in your
> second measurement in order to compensate for the increased resistance
> (increased gap, rounded electrode etc etc) that is limiting the current.
>
> voltage does not change for this gap unless it is changed at the source. am
> i correct?


You are not correct. See my other post. The computer does not directly set the
secondary voltage. The voltage generated in the secondary is a function of the
coil design, the saturation time (how long voltage is applied to the coils
primary), the quality of the secondary insulation, the spark plug gap, the shape
of the spark plug electrodes, the conditions in the combustion chamber around
the spark plug, etc. The computer controls the amount of time the primary side
of the coil is charged, and when the circuit on the primary side of the coil is
broken, which leads to the collapse of the magnetic field. This generates the
high voltage in the secondary side of the coil. How high this voltage goes is
controlled by the nature of the secondary circuit, not directly by the computer.

Regards,

Ed White

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Old 24 Feb 2004, 12:31 pm   #10 (permalink)
Philip®
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Default Re: Bosch PLATINUM+4

In
news:gPA_b.124836$02u1.32558@twister01.bloor.is.ne t.cable.rogers.com,
Lance <buyer@rogers.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
>
> "Philip®" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
> news:qRz_b.6908$aT1.5930@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> > In
> >

news:Ksz_b.124664$02u1.85830@twister01.bloor.is.ne t.cable.rogers.com,
> > Lance <buyer@rogers.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> > > "Philip®" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
> > > news:wPr_b.6232$aT1.2236@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> > > > In news:hkfk30dmu8d96sk2nhsehpouann6hsiqsr@4ax.com,
> > > > Huang Chung <WangChung@ev1.net> being of bellicose mind
> > > > posted:
> > > > > Anyone have experience using these plugs in Camrys?
> > > > > They're pre-gapped, 4 electrodes instead of one, 4 times
> > > > > the platinum of a normal plug - sounds pretty good to me,
> > > > > how do they stack up against the Denso, or what would you
> > > > > recommend?
> > > > >
> > > > > Mine is a 94 Camry LE 4 Cyl - over 200K on it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also interested on opinions on using full synthetic motor
> > > > > oil and weight, thanks!
> > > >
> > > > I tried a set in my ol 1990 Geo Prizm. When new, the firing
> > > > voltages were in the 7-9kv range. Next time I put the car
> > > > on a scope, the plugs had 15k miles on them. All firing
> > > > voltages were 30kv +/- 3kv. That's a lot of change and there
> > > > was detectable, sporadic misfiring during warm-up.
> > > >
> > > > No fuel mileage increase or any other driving improvement
> > > > noted from their installation.
> > > >
> > > > Spend your money on platinum tipped conventional sparkers.
> > > >
> > > > As for synthetic oil, again, I ran Mobil1 in the Prizm from
> > > > 10k miles until I sold it with 285k on the odometer. Oil
> > > > consumption was a bit better than 3k miles per quart of
> > > > 10w-30 wt. Engine was clean as a whistle inside (4-5k mile
> > > > oil change intervals). I'm also running Mobil1 10w-30 in
> > > > my 2003 Corolla. This car currently has 36k miles on it and
> > > > uses almost no oil between oil changes (5k mile intervals).
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > - Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM

> >
> > (Lance)
> > > why do the voltages go up? Is that because the wear on the
> > > plugs requires the computer to increase the voltage to bridge
> > > the (increased) gap?

> >
> > Firing voltage is STRICLY a function of resistance across the
> > gap. Four things increase required firing voltage:
> >
> > 1) Larger gap
> > 2) Rounded electrodes (more votage required for electrons to
> > push off a rounded surface)
> > 3) Greater air presure within the cylinder.
> > 4) A drier fuel mixture (ie, comparing wet gasoline to dry LPG,
> > all else being equal).
> > --
> >
> > - Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM


> the computer must be sending the signal for the higher voltage in
> your second measurement in order to compensate for the increased
> resistance (increased gap, rounded electrode etc etc) that is
> limiting the current.
>
> voltage does not change for this gap unless it is changed at the
> source. am i correct?
>


Lance. FORGET THE DAMNED COMPUTER. The only thing the igniter unit
can do is minimize the length of time the spark is maintained across
the gap. THE DAMNED COMPUTER cannot determine firing voltage.

One more and final time: The four conditions I mentioned previously
determine the required firing voltage.
--

- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM




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