Labor charges for timing belt, water pump

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Old 04 Mar 2004, 07:30 am   #1 (permalink)
BK
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Default Labor charges for timing belt, water pump

I finally bit the bullet and got the timing belt replaced on my '90
Camry (67K miles). The Toyota dealer had a special, so it cost 199.95.
When I called the dealer beforehand and asked about doing the water
pump, they said they'd inspect it then make a recommendation based on
its condition. While in the shop, they called and recommending
replacing it, the thermostat, and the oil seals. When I asked if
they'd tested the water pump, they said they really couldn't. This
gave the whole thing a kind of bait-and-switch feel, but from my
research it seemed like a good idea to replace the pump. Everything
I'd read indicated that, when they're doing the timing belt, the
incremental labor cost to do the pump isn't high. Actually, this
turned out not to be true. During the phone call, the labor cost vs.
the part cost wasn't clear from the Toyota service guy, but here are
the numbers from my invoice.

This is from a Toyota dealership in northern New Jersey:

Job #1: Timing belt 38.00; Labor 161.95.

The 199.95 price also included the drive belt. This was a monthly
special. Cost is 81% labor. (By the way, when I asked about the
condition of the timing belt, the guy said, "Well, [hem haw] it's
worn. It's stretched somewhat.")

Job #2: Water pump 115.48; Thermostat 17.00; Gasket 5.26; Labor
130.50.

Cost is 49% labor.

Job #3: Seal 8.80; Seal 8.66; Seal 10.00; Labor 87.00.

Cost is 76% labor.

Anyway, I'm suffering from sticker shock. And either the conventional
wisdom about the incremental labor costs being low is false, or the
dealer transferred some of the savings from the timing belt
replacement price to the other work.

BK
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Old 04 Mar 2004, 08:46 am   #2 (permalink)
badgolferman
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Default Re: Labor charges for timing belt, water pump

> I finally bit the bullet and got the timing belt replaced on my '90
> Camry (67K miles).


Do you go anywhere? Let us know when you want to sell this car.

> Job #1: Timing belt 38.00; Labor 161.95.
>
> The 199.95 price also included the drive belt. This was a monthly
> special. Cost is 81% labor. (By the way, when I asked about the
> condition of the timing belt, the guy said, "Well, [hem haw] it's
> worn. It's stretched somewhat.")


That price seems reasonable. All the coupons I get from the dealer are
that price also. I did manage to get mine changed for 149.95 about six
months ago for the 94 Camry.


> Job #2: Water pump 115.48; Thermostat 17.00; Gasket 5.26; Labor
> 130.50.


The dealer has inspected the water pump both times the timing belt has
been replaced and left it alone. Whether this is because he wants more
labor charges from me later or truly found it to be good is anyone's
opinion. I have 160,000 miles on that vehicle now.


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Old 09 Apr 2004, 08:01 am   #3 (permalink)
BK
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Default Re: Labor charges for timing belt, water pump

When the Toyota guy called me to say the water pump (and thermostat)
replacement would cost $268, since I don't know how much parts cost, I
simply assumed that most of the cost was for the parts with a little
toward labor. It wasn't until I went back for my car and read the
invoice that I realized I'd been charged for 1.5 hours of labor. My
Toyota "adviser" was no longer there when I got the car, but I called
him the next day. I asked him if, taking into account that I was
already paying for the timing belt job, pulling the old water pump and
installing a new one really took 1.5 hours. He said yes. So I guess
that, in addition to being screwed, maybe I was lied to.

Let me be clear here where I got this work done, in case any of you
want to know. It was Toyota of Hackensack in New Jersey.

BK

"-" <xvvvz@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<mA_7c.35236$%06.24201@newsread2.news.pas.ear thlink.net>...
> > As a previous poster said, "you waz screwed." If it makes you feel any
> > better, a local Toyota dealer did the EXACT same thing to me during a
> > water pump, timing belt song and dance, acting as if they did two
> > separate jobs and charging the full-blown price for each.

>
> I had the exact same experience last week at an Atlanta dealer. I quizzed
> the sales guy and he got really defensive about it and insisted that they
> were two totally different procedures that did not overlap each other.
>
> Doug

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Old 09 Apr 2004, 09:51 am   #4 (permalink)
Philip®
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Default Re: Labor charges for timing belt, water pump

Your post has two -disturbing- revelations:

1) "I don't know how much parts cost, I simply assumed... "
2) "So I guess... "

You need to get clear on:

A) the price on a water pump replacement ONLY, part / labor.
B) the price on timing belt replacement ONLY, parts / labor.

There is some labor time savings when doing a cam belt and water pump
at the same time. This varies from engine to engine however. You
didn't mention if your engine was a four or a V6.
--

- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM


In news:383d8fee.0404090501.5a0a2c07@posting.google.c om,
BK <3vn5l9b02@sneakemail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> When the Toyota guy called me to say the water pump (and
> thermostat)
> replacement would cost $268, since I don't know how much parts
> cost, I
> simply assumed that most of the cost was for the parts with a
> little
> toward labor. It wasn't until I went back for my car and read the
> invoice that I realized I'd been charged for 1.5 hours of labor. My
> Toyota "adviser" was no longer there when I got the car, but I
> called
> him the next day. I asked him if, taking into account that I was
> already paying for the timing belt job, pulling the old water pump
> and
> installing a new one really took 1.5 hours. He said yes. So I guess
> that, in addition to being screwed, maybe I was lied to.
>
> Let me be clear here where I got this work done, in case any of you
> want to know. It was Toyota of Hackensack in New Jersey.
>
> BK
>
> "-" <xvvvz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:<mA_7c.35236$%06.24201@newsread2.news.pas.ear thlink.net>...
> > > As a previous poster said, "you waz screwed." If it makes you
> > > feel any better, a local Toyota dealer did the EXACT same
> > > thing to me during a water pump, timing belt song and dance,
> > > acting as if they did two separate jobs and charging the
> > > full-blown price for each.

> >
> > I had the exact same experience last week at an Atlanta dealer.
> > I quizzed the sales guy and he got really defensive about it and
> > insisted that they were two totally different procedures that
> > did not overlap each other.
> >
> > Doug




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Old 09 Apr 2004, 02:37 pm   #5 (permalink)
D F Bonnett
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Default Re: Labor charges for timing belt, water pump

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 14:51:29 GMT, "Philip®"
<1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote:

>Your post has two -disturbing- revelations:
>
>1) "I don't know how much parts cost, I simply assumed... "
>2) "So I guess... "
>
>You need to get clear on:
>
>A) the price on a water pump replacement ONLY, part / labor.
>B) the price on timing belt replacement ONLY, parts / labor.
>
>There is some labor time savings when doing a cam belt and water pump
>at the same time. This varies from engine to engine however. You
>didn't mention if your engine was a four or a V6.


I don't know if the original poster is making accurate assumptions or
not in this particular instance. That being said, The dealership
noted, and their predecessor, have a reputation in the area (northern
Bergen County, NJ) for chicanery on the sales floor and what borders
on fraud in the service department. My first hand experience with them
has been most disappointing in both areas.
FWIW
YMMV
DFB
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Old 10 Apr 2004, 08:26 am   #6 (permalink)
BK
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Default Re: Labor charges for timing belt, water pump

"Philip®" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message

> You need to get clear on:
>
> A) the price on a water pump replacement ONLY, part / labor.
> B) the price on timing belt replacement ONLY, parts / labor.


A) Gasket, 5.26; Water pump, 115.48; Thermostat, 17.00. LABOR, 130.50

B) Belt, 38.00. LABOR 161.95. Note that there was a dealer special on
the timing belt: 199.95 for parts and labor combined.

Toyota of Hackensack charges for labor at a rate of $88/hour.

> There is some labor time savings when doing a cam belt and water pump
> at the same time. This varies from engine to engine however. You
> didn't mention if your engine was a four or a V6.


4-cylinder, 1990 Camry.

So, what do you think now?

BK
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Old 10 Apr 2004, 09:13 am   #7 (permalink)
William W. Plummer
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Default Re: Labor charges for timing belt, water pump


"BK" <3vn5l9b02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:383d8fee.0404100526.a7046d3@posting.google.co m...
> "Philip®" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
>
> > You need to get clear on:
> >
> > A) the price on a water pump replacement ONLY, part / labor.
> > B) the price on timing belt replacement ONLY, parts / labor.

>
> A) Gasket, 5.26; Water pump, 115.48; Thermostat, 17.00. LABOR, 130.50
>
> B) Belt, 38.00. LABOR 161.95. Note that there was a dealer special on
> the timing belt: 199.95 for parts and labor combined.
>
> Toyota of Hackensack charges for labor at a rate of $88/hour.
>
> > There is some labor time savings when doing a cam belt and water pump
> > at the same time. This varies from engine to engine however. You
> > didn't mention if your engine was a four or a V6.

>
> 4-cylinder, 1990 Camry.

Boston area dealers have a special (always in force!) of $199.95 for a
timing belt.
$72/hr for service. (My doctor charges less!)


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Old 10 Apr 2004, 01:35 pm   #8 (permalink)
Philip®
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Default Re: Labor charges for timing belt, water pump

In newsiTdc.2793$wP1.7037@attbi_s54,
William W. Plummer <William.PlummerXNOSPAMX@alum.mit.edu> being of
bellicose mind posted:
> Boston area dealers have a special (always in force!) of $199.95
> for a timing belt.
> $72/hr for service. (My doctor charges less!)


Your doctor charges more. A routine office visit is $90-$115 for
about 20 minutes of his time. I go monthly ... I see the bill.
--

- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM


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Old 10 Apr 2004, 01:35 pm   #9 (permalink)
Philip®
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Default Re: Labor charges for timing belt, water pump

In news:383d8fee.0404100526.a7046d3@posting.google.co m,
BK <3vn5l9b02@sneakemail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> "Philip®" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
>
> > You need to get clear on:
> >
> > A) the price on a water pump replacement ONLY, part / labor.
> > B) the price on timing belt replacement ONLY, parts / labor.

>
> A) Gasket, 5.26; Water pump, 115.48; Thermostat, 17.00. LABOR,
> 130.50
>
> B) Belt, 38.00. LABOR 161.95. Note that there was a dealer special
> on the timing belt: 199.95 for parts and labor combined.
>
> Toyota of Hackensack charges for labor at a rate of $88/hour.
>
> > There is some labor time savings when doing a cam belt and water
> > pump at the same time. This varies from engine to engine
> > however. You didn't mention if your engine was a four or a V6.

>
> 4-cylinder, 1990 Camry.
>
> So, what do you think now?
>
> BK


Using your price listing, you would have indeed been gouged had the
bill been 468.19.

--

- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM


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Old 10 Apr 2004, 08:45 pm   #10 (permalink)
ZZonka Tonka
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Default Re: Labor charges for timing belt, water pump

So next time have your doctor fix your car.


"William W. Plummer" wrote:

> "BK" <3vn5l9b02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
> news:383d8fee.0404100526.a7046d3@posting.google.co m...
> > "Philip®" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
> >
> > > You need to get clear on:
> > >
> > > A) the price on a water pump replacement ONLY, part / labor.
> > > B) the price on timing belt replacement ONLY, parts / labor.

> >
> > A) Gasket, 5.26; Water pump, 115.48; Thermostat, 17.00. LABOR, 130.50
> >
> > B) Belt, 38.00. LABOR 161.95. Note that there was a dealer special on
> > the timing belt: 199.95 for parts and labor combined.
> >
> > Toyota of Hackensack charges for labor at a rate of $88/hour.
> >
> > > There is some labor time savings when doing a cam belt and water pump
> > > at the same time. This varies from engine to engine however. You
> > > didn't mention if your engine was a four or a V6.

> >
> > 4-cylinder, 1990 Camry.

> Boston area dealers have a special (always in force!) of $199.95 for a
> timing belt.
> $72/hr for service. (My doctor charges less!)


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