Camry 1999: Clutch/gear-box problem

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Old 11 Apr 2004, 05:37 am   #1 (permalink)
Bogdan Iamandei
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Default Camry 1999: Clutch/gear-box problem

Hi everybody,

I guess it's my turn to have (serious) problems with my car.
It's a Camry, 1999, manual, .au model. Today, as I was merging on the
highway I tried to downshift from 5th to 4th, only to miss it and pinch
a bit of the reverse. I quickly realised my error, and stuck it in 4th,
then third, and then second. As I was accellerating to up-shift into
third I realised that it got stuck in second. No mater what I did,
it was impossible for me to take it out. Luckly I had enough momentum
to get over the small hill and slide on the shoulder of the road.
There I had time to try a few things before RACQ came and picked me
up to take me home.

It seems that:
1). with the engine off, gears can be selected just fine.
2). with the engine on, clutch pedal pressed to the ground,
none of the gears can be selected.
3). with the engine off, first gear selected, clutch pedal
pressed to the ground, trying to start the engine only
moves the car as if the clutch wasn't pressed at all.
4). Clutch external visible hydraulics seem to be working
and there's enough fluid in the jar.
5). At idle, in neutral, the engine seems to be vibrating
much more than before.
6). The RACQ guy managed to park the car by sticking it into
reverse and then first gear and just trying to start the
engine. (Yes, I realize some of you may cringe, since the
whole weight of the car was moved just by the starter motor)
While doing this I did not hear any weird sounds from the
gear box, it all moved smoothly, no crunches, no bangs, no
nothing. I could be wrong, and if I am - then please
disregard this point.

So, my question is, what could be wrong? Is it the clutch or
is it the gear-box? At any rate, it seems to me that it'll need to be
opened up to get to the clutch, or the gear-box (as Mr. Murphy has it,
whichever is the most expensive).

Cheers,

Bogdan.

--
I have seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire
off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark
near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time,
like tears in rain. Time to die.
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Old 11 Apr 2004, 02:41 pm   #2 (permalink)
Jason James
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Default Re: Camry 1999: Clutch/gear-box problem


"Bogdan Iamandei" <chilia@wziejxwoa.jap> wrote in message
news:Vd9ec.4367$ED.4105@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Hi everybody,
>
> I guess it's my turn to have (serious) problems with my car.
> It's a Camry, 1999, manual, .au model. Today, as I was merging on the
> highway I tried to downshift from 5th to 4th, only to miss it and pinch
> a bit of the reverse. I quickly realised my error, and stuck it in 4th,
> then third, and then second. As I was accellerating to up-shift into
> third I realised that it got stuck in second. No mater what I did,
> it was impossible for me to take it out. Luckly I had enough momentum
> to get over the small hill and slide on the shoulder of the road.
> There I had time to try a few things before RACQ came and picked me
> up to take me home.
>
> It seems that:
> 1). with the engine off, gears can be selected just fine.
> 2). with the engine on, clutch pedal pressed to the ground,
> none of the gears can be selected.
> 3). with the engine off, first gear selected, clutch pedal
> pressed to the ground, trying to start the engine only
> moves the car as if the clutch wasn't pressed at all.
> 4). Clutch external visible hydraulics seem to be working
> and there's enough fluid in the jar.
> 5). At idle, in neutral, the engine seems to be vibrating
> much more than before.
> 6). The RACQ guy managed to park the car by sticking it into
> reverse and then first gear and just trying to start the
> engine. (Yes, I realize some of you may cringe, since the
> whole weight of the car was moved just by the starter motor)
> While doing this I did not hear any weird sounds from the
> gear box, it all moved smoothly, no crunches, no bangs, no
> nothing. I could be wrong, and if I am - then please
> disregard this point.
>
> So, my question is, what could be wrong? Is it the clutch or
> is it the gear-box? At any rate, it seems to me that it'll need to be
> opened up to get to the clutch, or the gear-box (as Mr. Murphy has it,
> whichever is the most expensive).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bogdan.


It sounds very much like the clutch has colla[sed or a piece of the clutch
plate (friction-plate) has broken off and lodged between the clutch-plate
and the pressure-plate, hence causing the whole thing to remain engaged.

Are you sure you didnt manage to put it in a gear too low for the road speed
you were doing, then let the clutch up causing a clutch over-speed? This can
cause the clutch-plate to literally fly-apart.

Jason


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Old 11 Apr 2004, 05:30 pm   #3 (permalink)
Bogdan Iamandei
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Default Re: Camry 1999: Clutch/gear-box problem

On 2004-04-11, Jason James <flyhi@byplane.com> wrote:
>
> "Bogdan Iamandei" <chilia@wziejxwoa.jap> wrote in message
> news:Vd9ec.4367$ED.4105@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> Hi everybody,
>>
>> I guess it's my turn to have (serious) problems with my car.
>> It's a Camry, 1999, manual, .au model. Today, as I was merging on the
>> highway I tried to downshift from 5th to 4th, only to miss it and pinch
>> a bit of the reverse. I quickly realised my error, and stuck it in 4th,
>> then third, and then second. As I was accellerating to up-shift into
>> third I realised that it got stuck in second. No mater what I did,
>> it was impossible for me to take it out. Luckly I had enough momentum
>> to get over the small hill and slide on the shoulder of the road.
>> There I had time to try a few things before RACQ came and picked me
>> up to take me home.
>> [...]

>
> It sounds very much like the clutch has colla[sed or a piece of the clutch
> plate (friction-plate) has broken off and lodged between the clutch-plate
> and the pressure-plate, hence causing the whole thing to remain engaged.
>
> Are you sure you didnt manage to put it in a gear too low for the road speed
> you were doing, then let the clutch up causing a clutch over-speed? This can
> cause the clutch-plate to literally fly-apart.


I did have another look now that it's morning, and it seems to me that
the clutch plate is not moving at all, it spins but it doesn't translate
to a side when the pedal is pressed. Another thing is that the whole
assembly vibrates rather badly, transmitting the vibrations through the
pedal. It's as if something out of balance is spinning there.

Since it's still holidays here, I'll have to wait for today, and ask
someone tomorrow to come and have a look at it.

Thanks,
Bogdan.
--
I have seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire
off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark
near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time,
like tears in rain. Time to die.
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Old 11 Apr 2004, 08:34 pm   #4 (permalink)
Jason James
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Default Re: Camry 1999: Clutch/gear-box problem


"Bogdan Iamandei" <chilia@wziejxwoa.jap> wrote in message
news:TFjec.4732$ED.2947@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> On 2004-04-11, Jason James <flyhi@byplane.com> wrote:
> >
> > "Bogdan Iamandei" <chilia@wziejxwoa.jap> wrote in message
> > news:Vd9ec.4367$ED.4105@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> >> Hi everybody,
> >>
> >> I guess it's my turn to have (serious) problems with my car.
> >> It's a Camry, 1999, manual, .au model. Today, as I was merging on the
> >> highway I tried to downshift from 5th to 4th, only to miss it and pinch
> >> a bit of the reverse. I quickly realised my error, and stuck it in 4th,
> >> then third, and then second. As I was accellerating to up-shift into
> >> third I realised that it got stuck in second. No mater what I did,
> >> it was impossible for me to take it out. Luckly I had enough momentum
> >> to get over the small hill and slide on the shoulder of the road.
> >> There I had time to try a few things before RACQ came and picked me
> >> up to take me home.
> >> [...]

> >
> > It sounds very much like the clutch has colla[sed or a piece of the

clutch
> > plate (friction-plate) has broken off and lodged between the

clutch-plate
> > and the pressure-plate, hence causing the whole thing to remain engaged.
> >
> > Are you sure you didnt manage to put it in a gear too low for the road

speed
> > you were doing, then let the clutch up causing a clutch over-speed? This

can
> > cause the clutch-plate to literally fly-apart.

>
> I did have another look now that it's morning, and it seems to me that
> the clutch plate is not moving at all, it spins but it doesn't translate
> to a side when the pedal is pressed. Another thing is that the whole
> assembly vibrates rather badly, transmitting the vibrations through the
> pedal. It's as if something out of balance is spinning there.
>
> Since it's still holidays here, I'll have to wait for today, and ask
> someone tomorrow to come and have a look at it.

Thanks,

If it vibrates, that lends credence to the theory the clutch plate has shed
some of its lining, which has then positioned itself at the outer edge
(retained by the pressure plate) and hence when spun, caused imbalance and
vibration.


Jason


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Old 11 Apr 2004, 09:49 pm   #5 (permalink)
Bogdan Iamandei
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Default Re: Camry 1999: Clutch/gear-box problem

On 2004-04-12, Jason James <flyhi@byplane.com> wrote:
>
> "Bogdan Iamandei" <chilia@wziejxwoa.jap> wrote in message
> news:TFjec.4732$ED.2947@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>[...]
>> I did have another look now that it's morning, and it seems to me that
>> the clutch plate is not moving at all, it spins but it doesn't translate
>> to a side when the pedal is pressed. Another thing is that the whole
>> assembly vibrates rather badly, transmitting the vibrations through the
>> pedal. It's as if something out of balance is spinning there.
>>
>> Since it's still holidays here, I'll have to wait for today, and ask
>> someone tomorrow to come and have a look at it.

>
> If it vibrates, that lends credence to the theory the clutch plate
> has shed some of its lining, which has then positioned itself at
> the outer edge (retained by the pressure plate) and hence when
> spun, caused imbalance and vibration.


Thanks, I'll have it fixed and let you all know what it was.

Oh, and another thing. How long's a clutch plate supposed to last
anyway? And the classic question, go for original parts or good
quality "Something Else (TM)"?

Bogdan.

--
I have seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire
off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark
near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time,
like tears in rain. Time to die.
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Old 22 Apr 2004, 05:47 pm   #6 (permalink)
Jason James
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Default Re: Camry 1999: Clutch/gear-box problem - the Saga Ends.


"Bogdan Iamandei" <chilia@wziejxwoa.jap> wrote in message
newsgrhc.11440$V_3.7446@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> On 2004-04-20, Jason James <flyhi@byplane.com> wrote:
> >
> > "Bogdan Iamandei" <chilia@wziejxwoa.jap> wrote in message
> > news:XW4hc.10105$V_3.8590@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I took my car in today to have it serviced. 6 hours
> >> and $700 (towing + repairs) later, my car's back and working.
> >> The problem was that one of the springs inside the clutch disk
> >> became dislodged and it got stuck between the clutch and the
> >> diafragm of the pressure plate. The mechanic asked if by any
> >> chance I was doing burnouts at the time. I said no, and told him
> >> the story. He said that this usually happens when one drops the
> >> the clutch really hard.
> >>
> >> Oh well, I guess it's a live and learn experience.
> >>
> >> Thanks all for your help
> >>
> >> Bogdan.

> >
> > Unreal!! There's always one for the books! Those springs are mini
> > shock-absorbers for when the clutch takes up. In theory (well its been
> > proven in practice now) a spring (there's 4 of them) could compress to

its
> > limit,becoming to short to stay in its locating spigots.

>
> Actually, there are 3 springs and 3 rubber cylinders (terminated with
> metal disks at each end). They do compress but there are no spigots to
> keep them in there, rather 4 "lips" of bent metal that go over and along
> the sides of the spring. From what I could see, one of those lips gave
> way and that was enough for the spring to ... well.. spring out of its
> location. As the spring tumbled pretty much like a frog in a blender
> it also managed to chip a couple of other lips on the same side. It
> gives you a pretty good indication of what forces you're dealing with.
>
> To see what I'm talking about un-ROT-13 the following URLs:
>
> uggc://jjj.pvfaf.arg/~vabebt/c4200001-fz.wct
> uggc://jjj.pvfaf.arg/~vabebt/c4200002-fz.wct
> uggc://jjj.pvfaf.arg/~vabebt/c4200003-fz.wct
>
> Bogdan.


My dino-computercan't handle those links but I get the picture ('scuse the
pun). It has been a while since I've eye-balled a clutch plate.


> --
> I have seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire
> off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark
> near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time,
> like tears in rain. Time to die.


One of Rautger Hauer's better acting parts.


Jason


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Old 24 Apr 2004, 05:29 am   #7 (permalink)
Bogdan Iamandei
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Default Re: Camry 1999: Clutch/gear-box problem - the Saga Ends.

On 2004-04-22, Jason James <flyhi@byplane.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
> My dino-computercan't handle those links but I get the picture ('scuse the
> pun). It has been a while since I've eye-balled a clutch plate.


Ok. Go here: http://members.tripod.com/~BraunzGuy/rot13.htm
and plug in those funny strings. Hit decode and you've got the URL.

Bogdan.

--
I have seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire
off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark
near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time,
like tears in rain. Time to die.
  Reply With Quote

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