Camry (93/173k) vibrates over 40 mph? [repost]

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Old 16 Apr 2004, 05:24 pm   #1 (permalink)
David
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Default Camry (93/173k) vibrates over 40 mph? [repost]

Hello,

NOTE: I posted this first to "alt.autos.toyota", but then I saw this
group.

The car is a 1993 Toyota Camry with about 173k.

While on a highway trip several months ago, I became aware of
vibration that occurs between 40 MPH and 65 MPH. It only occurs when
my foot is on the gas. Coasting is no problem.

Lately it's gotten a lot worse, and I think the "vibration band" has
widened somewhat.

New tires were put on about 1.5 years ago, and look fairly good. Car
was aligned and balanced when the tires where put on.

Prior to leaving for the trip I had the oil and transmission
fluids/filters changed.

Any ideas?

I recently moved to a new town, and have yet to find a honest mechanic
here. I've been ripped off a couple of times so far... (Asked for
some work not to be done, but was done anyway and car held hostage
until payment.. etc.)

So before I try someone new, I want to get some other opinions as to
what the problem might be.


Thanks,

David
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Old 16 Apr 2004, 07:36 pm   #2 (permalink)
William W. Plummer
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Default Re: Camry (93/173k) vibrates over 40 mph? [repost]


"David" <davidgrp04@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bff8c808.0404161424.12192db4@posting.google.c om...
> Hello,
>
> NOTE: I posted this first to "alt.autos.toyota", but then I saw this
> group.
>
> The car is a 1993 Toyota Camry with about 173k.
>
> While on a highway trip several months ago, I became aware of
> vibration that occurs between 40 MPH and 65 MPH. It only occurs when
> my foot is on the gas. Coasting is no problem.
>
> Lately it's gotten a lot worse, and I think the "vibration band" has
> widened somewhat.
>
> New tires were put on about 1.5 years ago, and look fairly good. Car
> was aligned and balanced when the tires where put on.
>
> Prior to leaving for the trip I had the oil and transmission
> fluids/filters changed.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> I recently moved to a new town, and have yet to find a honest mechanic
> here. I've been ripped off a couple of times so far... (Asked for
> some work not to be done, but was done anyway and car held hostage
> until payment.. etc.)
>
> So before I try someone new, I want to get some other opinions as to
> what the problem might be.


Replace the tires. Steel belted radials can get bashed out of round if you
hit a chuck hole or a curb. For some reason tire shops can't measure this,
but replacing the tires cures the problem. Note that high mileage tires are
more suseptible to this damage because the rubber is thinner.


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Old 16 Apr 2004, 08:20 pm   #3 (permalink)
Wolfgang
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Default Re: Camry (93/173k) vibrates over 40 mph? [repost]

Check your axel CVC joints -- are the rubber boots are tornup/split/cracked?
Grease all over around one? Outer ones seem to go at 100k miles.

"David" <davidgrp04@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bff8c808.0404161424.12192db4@posting.google.c om...
> Hello,
>
> NOTE: I posted this first to "alt.autos.toyota", but then I saw this
> group.
>
> The car is a 1993 Toyota Camry with about 173k.
>
> While on a highway trip several months ago, I became aware of
> vibration that occurs between 40 MPH and 65 MPH. It only occurs when
> my foot is on the gas. Coasting is no problem.
>
> Lately it's gotten a lot worse, and I think the "vibration band" has
> widened somewhat.
>
> New tires were put on about 1.5 years ago, and look fairly good. Car
> was aligned and balanced when the tires where put on.
>
> Prior to leaving for the trip I had the oil and transmission
> fluids/filters changed.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> I recently moved to a new town, and have yet to find a honest mechanic
> here. I've been ripped off a couple of times so far... (Asked for
> some work not to be done, but was done anyway and car held hostage
> until payment.. etc.)
>
> So before I try someone new, I want to get some other opinions as to
> what the problem might be.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> David



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Old 17 Apr 2004, 07:12 am   #4 (permalink)
Daniel M. Dreifus
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Default Re: Camry (93/173k) vibrates over 40 mph? [repost]

davidgrp04@yahoo.com (David) wrote in message news:<bff8c808.0404161424.12192db4@posting.google. com>...

> While on a highway trip several months ago, I became aware of
> vibration that occurs between 40 MPH and 65 MPH. It only occurs when
> my foot is on the gas. Coasting is no problem.
>

"Saved from an earlier posting regarding similar symptoms:"

Alex Marcuzzi wrote:
> I have a 1993 Camry and it vibrates starting at 50M.P.H. and then it
> gradually disappears when it reaches 60-65 M.P.H.. I have balanced the
> wheels, moved the tires from front to rear and did a wheel alignment.
> Anyone else have any ideas. Other then those speeds it runs pretty
> smooth.
>
> Alex


I have had the same problem for years and finally found the source---worn
motor mounts.
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Old 18 Apr 2004, 07:06 am   #5 (permalink)
badgolferman
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Default Re: Camry (93/173k) vibrates over 40 mph? [repost]

Daniel M. Dreifus wrote:
> davidgrp04@yahoo.com (David) wrote in message
> news:<bff8c808.0404161424.12192db4@posting.google. com>...
>
>> While on a highway trip several months ago, I became aware of
>> vibration that occurs between 40 MPH and 65 MPH. It only occurs when
>> my foot is on the gas. Coasting is no problem.
>>

> "Saved from an earlier posting regarding similar symptoms:"
>
> Alex Marcuzzi wrote:
>> I have a 1993 Camry and it vibrates starting at 50M.P.H. and then it
>> gradually disappears when it reaches 60-65 M.P.H.. I have balanced
>> the wheels, moved the tires from front to rear and did a wheel
>> alignment. Anyone else have any ideas. Other then those speeds it
>> runs pretty smooth.
>>
>> Alex

>
> I have had the same problem for years and finally found the
> source---worn motor mounts.


Try telling that to Philip. Everytime I say motor mounts--which was my
problem also--he makes some sarcastic remark about it. Oh well, his
experience is different and there's nothing wrong with that.


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Old 18 Apr 2004, 12:06 pm   #6 (permalink)
Philip®
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Default Re: Camry (93/173k) vibrates over 40 mph? [repost]

badgolferman wrote:
> Daniel M. Dreifus wrote:
>> davidgrp04@yahoo.com (David) wrote in message
>> news:<bff8c808.0404161424.12192db4@posting.google. com>...
>>
>>> While on a highway trip several months ago, I became aware of
>>> vibration that occurs between 40 MPH and 65 MPH. It only occurs
>>> when my foot is on the gas. Coasting is no problem.
>>>

>> "Saved from an earlier posting regarding similar symptoms:"
>>
>> Alex Marcuzzi wrote:
>>> I have a 1993 Camry and it vibrates starting at 50M.P.H. and
>>> then it gradually disappears when it reaches 60-65 M.P.H.. I
>>> have balanced the wheels, moved the tires from front to rear and
>>> did a wheel alignment. Anyone else have any ideas. Other then
>>> those speeds it runs pretty smooth.
>>>
>>> Alex

>>
>> I have had the same problem for years and finally found the
>> source---worn motor mounts.

>
> Try telling that to Philip. Everytime I say motor mounts--which
> was my problem also--he makes some sarcastic remark about it. Oh
> well, his experience is different and there's nothing wrong with
> that.


You have YET to tell me how the engine mounts were defective, my
friend. :^) Was one or the other actually separated? Was one or the
other sagged with rubber missing? Was all the hydraulic fluid
missing (if of that particular design)?

Just looking for more information from you. :-)
--

- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM


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Old 18 Apr 2004, 05:36 pm   #7 (permalink)
Daniel M. Dreifus
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Default Re: Camry (93/173k) vibrates over 40 mph? [repost]

"Philip®" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message news:<1Aygc.1085$e4.531@newsread2.news.pas.earthli nk.net>...
> >>
> >> I have had the same problem for years and finally found the
> >> source---worn motor mounts.

> >

>
> You have YET to tell me how the engine mounts were defective, my
> friend. :^) Was one or the other actually separated? Was one or the
> other sagged with rubber missing? Was all the hydraulic fluid
> missing (if of that particular design)?
>
> Just looking for more information from you. :-)


Don't have it.
Weren't my motor mounts.
Just a snippet saved from last year where someone found vibration
under load at a particular speed correlated to a problem with engine
mounts.
They didn't say front, rear, transmission, or top, so may be of
limited value, but sounded like they resolved a long standing issue by
checking there.
Frankly, I'm open to suggestions on checking those hidden fluid filled
front and rear engine mounts. The upper "dog bone" was replaced by the
previous owner and appears sound, but giving some gas to the engine in
Drive while observing with foot planted firmly on the service brake
resulted in quite a bit of engine movement. No noticeable problems, so
not planning any replacement. Thought I saw MDT Tech once mention they
tend to be fairly reliable on average.
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Old 18 Apr 2004, 09:19 pm   #8 (permalink)
badgolferman
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Default Re: Camry (93/173k) vibrates over 40 mph? [repost]

> You have YET to tell me how the engine mounts were defective, my
> friend. :^) Was one or the other actually separated? Was one or the
> other sagged with rubber missing? Was all the hydraulic fluid
> missing (if of that particular design)?
>
> Just looking for more information from you. :-)


My vehicle is a 1994 Camry 4 cyl. The symptoms were that when accelerating
it would start to shake and wobble from side to side (felt like that) and
then smooth out at higher speeds. The tires had been replaced twice and
wheels balanced numerous times. I got sick of the constant diagnosis of
wheels and tires and exchanged the whole set with my 1997 Camry for a day.
The vibration remained with 1994 and I was able to eliminate them. It was
then that we had something else to look at and an undercar mechanic showed
me the engine moving under acceleration. It didn't take long to decide the
motor mount was bad from there.

In my case the front one had separated some time before, I don't know when.
When I found that one bad I replaced it with the help of a friend and as we
took it out some fluid leaked out. I don't know how much was in there to
start with. We looked at the dogbone and the rubber bushing at the top had
broken and separated also. Presumably this had happened because of the
excess stress of the front one breaking. Eventually I had the rear one
replaced by Toyota because I didn't feel capable of handling that one.

Now whether the cause of the vibration was bad mounts or the mounts had gone
bad because of vibration, I am unsure. What I do know is that after
replacing the front and dogbone the vibration ceased. Hopefully this is
enough detail for you to make a proper diagnosis of what the true cause of
these reported vibrations are.




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Old 19 Apr 2004, 12:52 am   #9 (permalink)
Philip®
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Default Re: Camry (93/173k) vibrates over 40 mph? [repost]

badgolferman wrote:
>> You have YET to tell me how the engine mounts were defective, my
>> friend. :^) Was one or the other actually separated? Was one or
>> the other sagged with rubber missing? Was all the hydraulic
>> fluid
>> missing (if of that particular design)?
>>
>> Just looking for more information from you. :-)

>
> My vehicle is a 1994 Camry 4 cyl. The symptoms were that when
> accelerating it would start to shake and wobble from side to side
> (felt like that) and then smooth out at higher speeds. The tires
> had been replaced twice and wheels balanced numerous times. I got
> sick of the constant diagnosis of wheels and tires and exchanged
> the whole set with my 1997 Camry for a day. The vibration remained
> with 1994 and I was able to eliminate them. It was then that we
> had something else to look at and an undercar mechanic showed me
> the engine moving under acceleration. It didn't take long to
> decide the motor mount was bad from there.
>
> In my case the front one had separated some time before, I don't
> know when. When I found that one bad I replaced it with the help
> of a friend and as we took it out some fluid leaked out. I don't
> know how much was in there to start with. We looked at the
> dogbone and the rubber bushing at the top had broken and separated
> also. Presumably this had happened because of the excess stress
> of the front one breaking. Eventually I had the rear one replaced
> by Toyota because I didn't feel capable of handling that one.
>
> Now whether the cause of the vibration was bad mounts or the
> mounts had gone bad because of vibration, I am unsure. What I do
> know is that after replacing the front and dogbone the vibration
> ceased. Hopefully this is enough detail for you to make a proper
> diagnosis of what the true cause of these reported vibrations are.


Thank you! Curious and obvious question: Did anyone test the motor
mounts (brake ON, put car in Reverse then Drive then Reverse under
light throttle while watching the engine for excessive movement?
Seems not. Also, both side mounts being broken is pretty unusual
unless ... you're one of those who rocks the car to get out of snow.
--

- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM




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Old 19 Apr 2004, 05:29 am   #10 (permalink)
badgolferman
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Default Re: Camry (93/173k) vibrates over 40 mph? [repost]

> Thank you! Curious and obvious question: Did anyone test the motor
> mounts (brake ON, put car in Reverse then Drive then Reverse under
> light throttle while watching the engine for excessive movement?
> Seems not. Also, both side mounts being broken is pretty unusual
> unless ... you're one of those who rocks the car to get out of snow.


Yes, the engine was observed under load reverse and forward. That is how
the diagnosis was made. I am not sure if the firewall side one was broken,
but after finding the first two bad I wanted the the third one replaced.

The vibration all started one day 4-5 years ago when accelerating onto a
highway. It remained rather minor for years while wheels and tires were
checked, but finally became bad enough where the car really couldn't be
driven safely. I drove this way for years before finding the cause of this
vibration.

This vehicle has lived in Florida, New York and Virginia. It has seen a
variety of climates but mostly hot weather.


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