[Q] oil leak behind the intake manifolds

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Old 19 Apr 2004, 01:15 am   #1 (permalink)
90vtwin
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Default [Q] oil leak behind the intake manifolds

Hi,
'92 Camry, 4 cyl (usa model), 100K miles developed a leak.
First I noticed it on a drive way (passenger side, approximately at the
same level as the wheel).

The type of lubricant: seems to be oil: yellowish, greasy.

As I started tracing it up, I saw the first traces
on the back of the engine, I will try with a picture
of the engine block (in 3d :-) )





--(=====)------
/|
/
---------------
|--------------- <-(valve cover gasket)
|--------------- <-(cyl head gasket)
|
-----------------


The leak is below the valve cover gasket, on the
back side of the engine, aproximately below the
area I market with parenthesis.

So it is below the intake manifolds or around that area.

There are no leaks in the front that I can see
neither from the valve cover gasket or the cyl
head gasket.


I replaced the valve cover gasket noticing that there
were traces of oil on the back... But when I took the
valve cover off, I did not see any noticable problems
with valve cover gasket... I was still hoping that that was
it though. So I replaced it. Then next morning
I noticed the leak again.

Now this time, I cleaned the engine with the degreaser
to see better.

And I can only see the traces of oil (and actually alot)
around the are below the intake manifold (close to the
passenger side).


A friend of my told me it can be an oil pump..

But I just got Hynes manual and cannot figure out
even if the oil pump located in that area...

I would prefer if I do not have to take the cyl
head cover off, just to see this thing (as then,
according to the manual I have to take bunch of stuff
out first)


I wanted to find out if may be I should take the
intake manifolds out and replace the gasket there,

or may be there are other people on the forum who
might have experienced something similar

thanks in advance for any tips/info.







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Old 19 Apr 2004, 07:54 pm   #2 (permalink)
ROBMURR
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Default Re: [Q] oil leak behind the intake manifolds

The oil pump is located under the timing
belt cover, passenger side, towards the
back of the engine. It is down near the
bottom of the cover...There is a large
rubber gasket behind it that can leak
as mine did. Its only about a $7 part but
you have to get the timing belt covers
off and may as well change the belt while
in there..Not that easy of a DIY job.
Dont know if that is your problem.....
Let us know what you find.
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Old 20 Apr 2004, 10:45 am   #3 (permalink)
Daniel M. Dreifus
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Default Re: [Q] oil leak behind the intake manifolds

"90vtwin" <90vtwin@email.com> wrote in message news:<25826b426bc3df9572401add23d16528@localhost.t alkaboutautos.com>...
>
> '92 Camry, 4 cyl (usa model), 100K miles developed a leak.
>
> The leak is below the valve cover gasket, on the
> back side of the engine (1)
>
> There are no leaks in the front (2)
>
> I replaced the valve cover gasket noticing that there
> were traces of oil on the back... Then next morning
> I noticed the leak again. (3)
>
> A friend of my told me it can be an oil pump.. (4)
>
> I wanted to find out if may be I should take the
> intake manifolds out and replace the gasket there, (5)
>
> or may be there are other people on the forum who
> might have experienced something similar (6)
>

(1) This is very common. I suspect they may all leak slightly at
this mileage.
The spark plug tube nuts are only torqued at 17 ft. lbs.. With
repeated cycles of engine heating and cooling, plus the hardening of
the gasket material over time, seepage often occurs.

(2) The engine is tilted toward the rear, so it is natural that
valve cover leaks would appear there.

(3) Would suggest you re install the valve cover gasket. Be sure
you're using the factory part. Also get some FIPG (form in place
gasket) material. Be sure the gasket mating surfaces are completely
clean and free of all contaminants. You might try using carburetor
cleaner and a shop rag to wipe down that narrow "ledge" around the
valves. Get it squeaky clean. Be sure to seal the four points noted in
the Haynes repair manual (and in the factory service manual) - they
are on each side of the curved sealing surfaces at the camshafts right
where the curve meets the flat and forms a sharp angle. This is where
you use the FIPG material. Do not use silicone sealer because the
(acetate?) fumes can actually damage the oxygen sensor. If you're
determined to use after market sealer, try Permatex Blue (I think)
that's safe for O2 sensors. Tighten the spark plug tube nuts to 17 ft.
lbs. The Haynes manual is in error on this point. The 29 ft. lbs.
figure is for the lower portion where the spark plug tubes thread into
the head.

(4) This is evidence that you don't want to ask that friend for any
additional advice about your Camry. The oil pump is near the water
pump, above the crankshaft pulley on the front of the engine.

(5) Don't disturb the intake manifold gasket. You'll be doing a lot
of unnecessary work. There is no oil in the intake manifold - only
air.

Try reinstalling the correct valve cover gasket, over clean sealing
surfaces, using dabs of FIPG material at the cams, then report back if
the leak is still there.
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Old 22 Apr 2004, 10:26 pm   #4 (permalink)
90vtwin
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Default Re: [Q] oil leak behind the intake manifolds

Hi,
thanks for the replies. I am sure the valve cover gasket is not leaking.
When I installed it, I did follow the manual and put the sensor safe
gasket sealant in all the 8 places (4 on each side) (and cleaned with
alcohol the contact area)

I am sure that the gasket is not leaking, because as I mentioned before, I
cleaned up the engine and now I can
see that there is no leak from the gasket.

The leak is somewhere close to where intake manifold
is connecting to the block (on the passenger side).
There is one insulated-looking wire (about 1/2 in diameter) and other
things, that I cannot discern, all covered with grease (and that grease is
for sure oil, as I stuck my
fingers in there and it was the dark reddish color)


May be there are more than one leak, because the drops
on the driveway are very light color. And to me
it does not make sense, because oil should be dark reddish
as around intake manifold gasket)(it is not synthetic). I checked power
steering fluid
and the hose that goes out of the fluid reservoir
and it seems to be OK (I actually had wheels turned a couple
of times while the car was running to observe is something leaking under
pressure).

By the way, thanks for pointing out the torque specs
on the spark plug cyl bolts. I did have them too tight
(my torque wrench is 3/8 drive, but the 30 mm socket
for those bolts is 1/2 -- so my torque wrench cannot
be used (I just ordered a 1/2 drive inexpensive
torque wrench ) -- but for now I just 'guesstimated'
the torque).

I am thinking that will not be avoid to take
everything out up to the cylinder heads...
and may be then I will find one leak, and then the hunt
for the second one will begin... :-(

I only can work on my mom's car on Sat and Sunday,
so I wanted to ask if anyone has experience how long
would it take for a newbie to do get to the cyl head
gasket (the Haynes manual, I use, basically tells me
that I have to flush out radiator fluids and take bunch of
stuff out) .. I am afraid I will not have enough time
(but if get there, I will replace bunch of gaskets
and the timing belt, and whatever else I can find
easy to replace)

Any other ideas/tips are greatly appreciated.






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Old 23 Apr 2004, 06:09 pm   #5 (permalink)
Daniel M. Dreifus
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Default Re: [Q] oil leak behind the intake manifolds

"90vtwin" <90vtwin@email.com> wrote in message news:<52f286c28ba8dda0ed6b7c17b4e80ad0@localhost.t alkaboutautos.com>...
>
> There is one insulated-looking wire (about 1/2 in diameter) and other
> things, that I cannot discern, all covered with grease (and that grease is
> for sure oil,


Try spraying some cleaner in that area to isolate the component.
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Old 23 Apr 2004, 06:40 pm   #6 (permalink)
Alex Marcuzzi
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Default Re: [Q] oil leak behind the intake manifolds

I also think that the leak is in the oil pump. I had the same problem with
my car and I thought the oil was coming from the back of the engine but
instead it was coming from the O ring around the oil bump which with time
became brittle and was cracked in three places. Go to page 2A-17 of the
Haynes manual and it shows the O ring I am talking about. It is like a giant
O ring that fits in a groove around the oil pump body. It gets squeezed when
you bolt on the seven bolts holding the body in place. To get a better look
at it remove the right tire and then remove the access plate under the right
fender. This will give you a better look at the right side of the engine.
Now get a can of brake cleaner and clean all the area around the oil pump
body . After it is all dry and clean turn the motor on and watch the area
all around the oil pump body and if the O ring is leaking you will see oil
seeping out of the perimeter and work its way to the bottom of the engine
and drip on the floor. I hope this helps. It is a bit tedious and messy job
but it is better then having to change the head gasket.
Alex
"90vtwin" <90vtwin@email.com> wrote in message
news:52f286c28ba8dda0ed6b7c17b4e80ad0@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> Hi,
> thanks for the replies. I am sure the valve cover gasket is not leaking.
> When I installed it, I did follow the manual and put the sensor safe
> gasket sealant in all the 8 places (4 on each side) (and cleaned with
> alcohol the contact area)
>
> I am sure that the gasket is not leaking, because as I mentioned before, I
> cleaned up the engine and now I can
> see that there is no leak from the gasket.
>
> The leak is somewhere close to where intake manifold
> is connecting to the block (on the passenger side).
> There is one insulated-looking wire (about 1/2 in diameter) and other
> things, that I cannot discern, all covered with grease (and that grease is
> for sure oil, as I stuck my
> fingers in there and it was the dark reddish color)
>
>
> May be there are more than one leak, because the drops
> on the driveway are very light color. And to me
> it does not make sense, because oil should be dark reddish
> as around intake manifold gasket)(it is not synthetic). I checked power
> steering fluid
> and the hose that goes out of the fluid reservoir
> and it seems to be OK (I actually had wheels turned a couple
> of times while the car was running to observe is something leaking under
> pressure).
>
> By the way, thanks for pointing out the torque specs
> on the spark plug cyl bolts. I did have them too tight
> (my torque wrench is 3/8 drive, but the 30 mm socket
> for those bolts is 1/2 -- so my torque wrench cannot
> be used (I just ordered a 1/2 drive inexpensive
> torque wrench ) -- but for now I just 'guesstimated'
> the torque).
>
> I am thinking that will not be avoid to take
> everything out up to the cylinder heads...
> and may be then I will find one leak, and then the hunt
> for the second one will begin... :-(
>
> I only can work on my mom's car on Sat and Sunday,
> so I wanted to ask if anyone has experience how long
> would it take for a newbie to do get to the cyl head
> gasket (the Haynes manual, I use, basically tells me
> that I have to flush out radiator fluids and take bunch of
> stuff out) .. I am afraid I will not have enough time
> (but if get there, I will replace bunch of gaskets
> and the timing belt, and whatever else I can find
> easy to replace)
>
> Any other ideas/tips are greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
>
>
>



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Old 29 Apr 2004, 10:27 pm   #7 (permalink)
90vtwin
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Default Re: [Q] oil leak behind the intake manifolds

Hi,
Alex I will try what you suggested this weekend.
So far I have been working on struts (replaced
the rear, also need to change the old fronts to Monroe)

I have put some pictures on the web site of where
I am locating the oil leak (especially images t1 and t4),
in case someone can interpret them.

http://users.adelphia.net/~reason/v/toyotai4/Page.html

thanks again,
for all the help



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Old 02 Jun 2004, 04:09 pm   #8 (permalink)
e-cri-cri
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Default Re: [Q] oil leak behind the intake manifolds

I have a similar problem that I have not been able to resolve. My is a
Camry 92 V6-LE with 150K miles.
I changed the valve cover gasket twice and redone the second time in the
last 1.5 to 2 years (25K miles). Valve cover gasket is leaking again. And
seems that from somewhere else too. I just did the leak test (wash the
engine and put a dye in the oil). Mechanic tells me the leaks is mainly,
from the back valve cover gasket. But I have a different symptom than
90vtwin. The oil leaks somewhere on the exaust manifold, as it burns and I
have to breath the burned oil. Sometimes is really bad. Sometimes not so
bad. Couple of days after I power wash the engine, the burned oil smell
comes again.
I guess I have to do the valve covers again, this time following all steps
as detail by nospampls2002. But my question is, is there a chance that
there is another leak somewhere else (the oil pump)? Or because of the
burned oil symptom, is more likely it is the back valve cover?
Thanks

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Old 02 Jun 2004, 04:13 pm   #9 (permalink)
e-cri-cri
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Default Re: [Q] oil leak behind the intake manifolds

I have a similar problem that I have not been able to resolve. My is a
Camry 92 V6-LE with 150K miles.
I changed the valve cover gasket twice and redone the second time in the
last 1.5 to 2 years (25K miles). Valve cover gasket is leaking again. And
seems that from somewhere else too. I just did the leak test (wash the
engine and put a dye in the oil). Mechanic tells me the leaks is mainly,
from the back valve cover gasket. But I have a different symptom than
90vtwin. The oil leaks somewhere on the exaust manifold, as it burns and I
have to breath the burned oil. Sometimes is really bad. Sometimes not so
bad. Couple of days after I power wash the engine, the burned oil smell
comes again.
I guess I have to do the valve covers again, this time following all steps
as detail by nospampls2002. But my question is, is there a chance that
there is another leak somewhere else (the oil pump)? Or because of the
burned oil symptom, is more likely it is the back valve cover?
Thanks

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Old 03 Jun 2004, 08:48 am   #10 (permalink)
Daniel M. Dreifus
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Default Re: [Q] oil leak behind the intake manifolds

"e-cri-cri" <crodriguez@cascadeaerospace.com> wrote in message news:<f805075d962f16192d415d82480072d7@localhost.t alkaboutautos.com>...
>is there a chance that
> there is another leak somewhere else


Guys, this is just too obvious, and I've got the 4 not the 6, but
there is a replaceable gasket under the oil filler cap, and a grommet
for the PCV valve in the valve cover - both can leak.
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