89 camry, no spark, ignitor fault ? Haynes schematic inadequate

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Old 16 Sep 2004, 09:07 pm   #1 (permalink)
jimhigh66
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Default 89 camry, no spark, ignitor fault ? Haynes schematic inadequate

I find no indication the ignitor is driving the coil -- I put an
oscilloscope on the ignitor output/coil- and see no pulses when the car is
cranked (the distributor shaft spins). Coil and pickup coil measure OK & I
have +12 to coil+ .

The Haynes manual shows the pickup coil wired (2 wires)directly to the
ignitor but I don't find that to be true (I find no continuity between any
pickup coil connector contact and the ignitor). And the pickup coil has
three leads -- apparently center tapped. Also the wire colors in the
Haynes manual don't match actual wiring.

I'm thinking the pickup coil must drive other circuitry (computer ?) which
then drives the ignitor. (?) I should also mention if I short the coil- to
ground I do get some spark from the secondary -- not real hot.

If anyone has a FACTORY service manual or schematics I'd appreciate some
advice. I really suspected the ignitor but without finding a connection
from the pickup coil to the ignitor I'm suspicous it could be elsewhere.

Jim H.

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Old 16 Sep 2004, 09:47 pm   #2 (permalink)
jjjsan
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Default Re: 89 camry, no spark, ignitor fault ? Haynes schematic inadequate

Are you sure your timing belt is ok, is dist rotor rotating when you crank
the engine.
If the dist rotor is not turning, then the pickup coil in dist will not
send a signal to igniter to fire the coil.
Could be a problem with distributor.
Suggest going to library and look for factory service manual or buy one
from toyota. I think they are around $40-60.
jim

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Old 17 Sep 2004, 08:42 am   #3 (permalink)
jimhigh66
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Default Re: 89 camry, no spark, ignitor fault ? Haynes schematic inadeq

Tnx, but I mentioned in the first paragraph that the distributor shaft was
spinning. Yes, I'd like to find a factory service manual but am reluctant
to spend that much money for one for an old car without certainty the
manual would enable me to find the problem.
Happy trails, Jim H.

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Old 17 Sep 2004, 10:58 am   #4 (permalink)
Alex Marcuzzi
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Default Re: 89 camry, no spark, ignitor fault ? Haynes schematic inadeq

I had the same problem with my 1990 Toyota and I thought for sure it was the
igniter because I saw a little spark a couple of times and doing an ohms
check of the coil it looked fine but it turned out to be the high voltage
coil after all. I went to a wrecker and bought a used igniter first and when
that didn't fix it he let me return the igniter and sold me the high voltage
coil and it fixed the problem. If you want more ignition info go to this
site and you can download a document that explains all you want to know
about Toyota ignition without buying a manual.
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h23.pdf
Hope this helps.
Alex
"jimhigh66" <mounthighly@aol.com> wrote in message
news:8742b2abb878d1b036cf9a85d3bd0e6a@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> Tnx, but I mentioned in the first paragraph that the distributor shaft was
> spinning. Yes, I'd like to find a factory service manual but am reluctant
> to spend that much money for one for an old car without certainty the
> manual would enable me to find the problem.
> Happy trails, Jim H.
>



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Old 19 Sep 2004, 09:29 am   #5 (permalink)
Alex Marcuzzi
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Default Re: 89 camry, no spark, ignitor fault ? Haynes schematic inadequate

How did you make out with your ignition problem?
Alex
"jimhigh66" <mounthighly@aol.com> wrote in message
news:79e0fc0d377cb981a47b696a3eb810c6@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
>I find no indication the ignitor is driving the coil -- I put an
> oscilloscope on the ignitor output/coil- and see no pulses when the car is
> cranked (the distributor shaft spins). Coil and pickup coil measure OK & I
> have +12 to coil+ .
>
> The Haynes manual shows the pickup coil wired (2 wires)directly to the
> ignitor but I don't find that to be true (I find no continuity between any
> pickup coil connector contact and the ignitor). And the pickup coil has
> three leads -- apparently center tapped. Also the wire colors in the
> Haynes manual don't match actual wiring.
>
> I'm thinking the pickup coil must drive other circuitry (computer ?) which
> then drives the ignitor. (?) I should also mention if I short the coil- to
> ground I do get some spark from the secondary -- not real hot.
>
> If anyone has a FACTORY service manual or schematics I'd appreciate some
> advice. I really suspected the ignitor but without finding a connection
> from the pickup coil to the ignitor I'm suspicous it could be elsewhere.
>
> Jim H.
>



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Old 19 Sep 2004, 10:39 pm   #6 (permalink)
jimhigh66
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Default Re: 89 camry, no spark, ignitor fault ? Haynes schematic inadeq

Tnx for Asking Alex. Not too well. I've been working on it off & on and
today tried to check trouble codes and discovered the "Check Engine"
light NEVER comes on (and didn't recall if it ever came on in the past). I
suspected the lamp and managed to get the instrument cluster out but the
bulb was OK and PWB continuity OK. This lead me to suspect a computer
problem. But, also, I am unable to find a connection to ground at any
contact on the harness connector that mates with the ignitor module. (I
can find cont to the coil+/+12 and also to the coil- ).
I can't see how the ignitor can possibly drive the coil without a ground
return. (The Haynes maual shows a ground wire (they show white) but I
don't know that I can trust the manual especially since the actual white
wire from the ignitor mates with a red ( I recall ) on the harness. I
think it's possible a bad ground may be the root of the problem but have
no idea where it is located. I hesitate to try a jumper to ground without
know which conductor it is. I posted this info on another post this
afternoon. Jim H.

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Old 20 Sep 2004, 05:56 pm   #7 (permalink)
Alex Marcuzzi
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Default Re: 89 camry, no spark, ignitor fault ? Haynes schematic inadeq

Jim
There is a good explanation of the ignition and the sequence of signals
written that you can download and read with diagrams etc. If you go to this
website
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h23.pdf
You can download and print the file then you can read it over a few times so
that you have a clear picture of the sequence of events and you can follow
the signals. Hope this helps.
Alex
"jimhigh66" <mounthighly@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ffb587706b508de4ecb04ac4aabb03c5@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> Tnx for Asking Alex. Not too well. I've been working on it off & on and
> today tried to check trouble codes and discovered the "Check Engine"
> light NEVER comes on (and didn't recall if it ever came on in the past). I
> suspected the lamp and managed to get the instrument cluster out but the
> bulb was OK and PWB continuity OK. This lead me to suspect a computer
> problem. But, also, I am unable to find a connection to ground at any
> contact on the harness connector that mates with the ignitor module. (I
> can find cont to the coil+/+12 and also to the coil- ).
> I can't see how the ignitor can possibly drive the coil without a ground
> return. (The Haynes maual shows a ground wire (they show white) but I
> don't know that I can trust the manual especially since the actual white
> wire from the ignitor mates with a red ( I recall ) on the harness. I
> think it's possible a bad ground may be the root of the problem but have
> no idea where it is located. I hesitate to try a jumper to ground without
> know which conductor it is. I posted this info on another post this
> afternoon. Jim H.
>



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Old 21 Sep 2004, 01:09 pm   #8 (permalink)
corolla_ke20
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Default Re: 89 camry, no spark, ignitor fault ? Haynes schematic inadeq

I have the same problem as jimhigh has explained
and i have checked the resistance between: NE and G- it was 160 ohms but
it was no resistance between: NE and G1,
should there be so??

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Old 21 Sep 2004, 11:02 pm   #9 (permalink)
jimhigh66
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Default Re: 89 camry, no spark, ignitor fault ? Haynes schematic inadeq

I measure 340 ohms from NE -> G
" 170 " " NE -> G-
" 170 " " G -> G-
This leads me to believe the coil is center-tapped which would make sense
if a differential signal is required. If your car is exactly the same as
mine then the no resistance measurement is suspicious. Check it again to
make sure. Jim H.

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Old 22 Sep 2004, 10:20 am   #10 (permalink)
corolla_ke20
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Default Re: 89 camry, no spark, ignitor fault ? Haynes schematic inadeq

Now I Have taken apart the whole distributor.. the ignition coil seems to
be ok .but there is no resistance between g and g-. perhaps this is the
problem? according to the haines manual it should be 140-180 ohms. is it
possible to buy only the pickup coil???


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