98 Toyota Camry 4 cyl engine noise

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Old 15 Oct 2004, 09:16 am   #1 (permalink)
Dan
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Default 98 Toyota Camry 4 cyl engine noise

My 98 Camry 4 cyl engine with 171K miles started to make noise from
near the timing belt cover. The noise is not from the valve cover. The
noise sounds like krrr....krrrr....krrrr... The noise repeats every
half second when the car is in idle. The noise repeats faster when gas
pedal is pressed. It had the timing belt replaced 10K miles before.
Also my car emits blue smoke at cold start but it has been smoking
long before the noise started. There is no other problems. No water
leak, no oil leak, etc.

Any idea? I am planning to driver the car another 30K miles over next
year. Is this something that I should worry about? Thanks.
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Old 15 Oct 2004, 09:43 am   #2 (permalink)
ROBMURR
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Default Re: 98 Toyota Camry 4 cyl engine noise

When was the waterpump replaced last?
Your timing belt could be loose too.
The timing belt tensioner may be worn too.
Switch to a high mileage type oil that will
slighty swell the valve seals and stop most of
the smoke.

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Old 15 Oct 2004, 01:21 pm   #3 (permalink)
Dan
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Default Re: 98 Toyota Camry 4 cyl engine noise

The waterpump is original and it doesn't leak. Thanks for you comments.

robmurr@aol.com (ROBMURR) wrote in message news:<20041015104304.03671.00002274@mb-m04.aol.com>...
> When was the waterpump replaced last?
> Your timing belt could be loose too.
> The timing belt tensioner may be worn too.
> Switch to a high mileage type oil that will
> slighty swell the valve seals and stop most of
> the smoke.

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Old 15 Oct 2004, 01:43 pm   #4 (permalink)
Dan
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Default Re: 98 Toyota Camry 4 cyl engine noise

The frequency of the noise is about 120 per minute which is much lower
than the engine RPM of 600 at idle.

Correct me if I am wrong here. Since the things (water pump, idle
pulley, etc) connected to the timing belt, drive belt spin at rate
close to the engine RPM, they shouldn't cause the noise?
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Old 15 Oct 2004, 02:35 pm   #5 (permalink)
ROBMURR
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Default Re: 98 Toyota Camry 4 cyl engine noise

>Correct me if I am wrong here. Since the things (water pump, idle
>pulley, etc) connected to the timing belt, drive belt spin at rate
>close to the engine RPM, they shouldn't cause the noise?


The water pump is still suspect with that many miles. Most
people change it on the 2nd timing belt change. IF you say
it is coming from the timing belt area it most likely one of these:
1. Water pump
2. Belt tensioner
3. Belt (loose,frayed)
4. Oil pump
So in any event the cover needs to come off and those things
inspected/replaced. While cover is off there are several seals
on that side of the engine that should be replaced. Dont forget
the O ring behind the oil pump. Just because a water pump
is not leaking a bearing could fail at anytime. Yours is on
borrowed time.
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Old 15 Oct 2004, 06:45 pm   #6 (permalink)
Alex Marcuzzi
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Default Re: 98 Toyota Camry 4 cyl engine noise


"Dan" <dan_rhee@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a3edc2d7.0410150616.64f7b01b@posting.google.c om...
> My 98 Camry 4 cyl engine with 171K miles started to make noise from
> near the timing belt cover. The noise is not from the valve cover. The
> noise sounds like krrr....krrrr....krrrr... The noise repeats every
> half second when the car is in idle. The noise repeats faster when gas
> pedal is pressed. It had the timing belt replaced 10K miles before.
> Also my car emits blue smoke at cold start but it has been smoking
> long before the noise started. There is no other problems. No water
> leak, no oil leak, etc.
>
> Any idea? I am planning to driver the car another 30K miles over next
> year. Is this something that I should worry about? Thanks.



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Old 15 Oct 2004, 06:55 pm   #7 (permalink)
Alex Marcuzzi
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Default Re: 98 Toyota Camry 4 cyl engine noise

I agree with Rob. I just had the same thing happened on my 93 Camry and it
turned out to be the water pump. The bearing had failed and it was making a
rattling noise. Take at least the top half of the belt cover off and cycle
the engine a couple of times by turning the crank bolt to see how it feels
and take a good look at the condition of the belt. It will only take a few
minutes. If you want to drive another 30k it is obvious that you have to fix
the problem.
Alex.

"ROBMURR" <robmurr@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041015153517.22480.00000817@mb-m06.aol.com...
> >Correct me if I am wrong here. Since the things (water pump, idle
>>pulley, etc) connected to the timing belt, drive belt spin at rate
>>close to the engine RPM, they shouldn't cause the noise?

>
> The water pump is still suspect with that many miles. Most
> people change it on the 2nd timing belt change. IF you say
> it is coming from the timing belt area it most likely one of these:
> 1. Water pump
> 2. Belt tensioner
> 3. Belt (loose,frayed)
> 4. Oil pump
> So in any event the cover needs to come off and those things
> inspected/replaced. While cover is off there are several seals
> on that side of the engine that should be replaced. Dont forget
> the O ring behind the oil pump. Just because a water pump
> is not leaking a bearing could fail at anytime. Yours is on
> borrowed time.



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Old 16 Oct 2004, 09:15 am   #8 (permalink)
Jason James
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Default Re: 98 Toyota Camry 4 cyl engine noise


"Dan" <dan_rhee@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a3edc2d7.0410150616.64f7b01b@posting.google.c om...
> My 98 Camry 4 cyl engine with 171K miles started to make noise from
> near the timing belt cover. The noise is not from the valve cover. The
> noise sounds like krrr....krrrr....krrrr... The noise repeats every
> half second when the car is in idle. The noise repeats faster when gas
> pedal is pressed. It had the timing belt replaced 10K miles before.
> Also my car emits blue smoke at cold start but it has been smoking
> long before the noise started. There is no other problems. No water
> leak, no oil leak, etc.
>
> Any idea? I am planning to driver the car another 30K miles over next
> year. Is this something that I should worry about? Thanks.



From memory the auxillary pulleys (w/pump-oilpump and tensioner) are running
at about double the cam shaft speed or at about the same speed as the crank.
This may give the impression the noise is faster than the motor if your ear
is referencing against the overhead (cams and valve gear) gear noise. So it
maybe one of those auxillary drives mantioned above.

Sometimes a slightly ragged edge worn off the toothed belt (main drive belt)
can make a noise as it runs around the pulleys and because there are more
small pulleys than large, it can also make the noise sound fast. Then you
have the alternator and p/steering and AC drives and their belts.

I'd try pouring a small amount of water on these belts to see if the noise
changes or goes away before investigating the cam-belt.

There are cheap stethoscopes available at some auto-markey places which can
help trace thenoise as well.

Jason


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Old 16 Oct 2004, 04:15 pm   #9 (permalink)
Dan
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Default Re: 98 Toyota Camry 4 cyl engine noise

I just came back from a shop. They replaced the water pump, idle
pulley and second pulley. With $500 spent, the noise is gone.

The mechanic kept the old parts and show me that all the bearings on
the water pump and two pulleys were making noise. I am happy that the
problem is solved but I am puzzled about all three bearings go bad
almost at the same time.

I had my second timing belt replaced 4 month ago. Since then, I drove
10K miles. Is it possible that the timing belt wasn't tensioned
correctly, may be too tight? I ask this because the engine wasn't as
smooth as when I had the timing belt replaced for the first time.

Thanks again for your comments.
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Old 16 Oct 2004, 08:02 pm   #10 (permalink)
Jason James
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Default Re: 98 Toyota Camry 4 cyl engine noise


"Dan" <dan_rhee@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a3edc2d7.0410161315.6d74b62b@posting.google.c om...
> I just came back from a shop. They replaced the water pump, idle
> pulley and second pulley. With $500 spent, the noise is gone.
>
> The mechanic kept the old parts and show me that all the bearings on
> the water pump and two pulleys were making noise. I am happy that the
> problem is solved but I am puzzled about all three bearings go bad
> almost at the same time.


All prelubed roller and ball-bearings and I think some of them maybe double
row here, to provide lateral strength for wide-belt drives, will start
making ticking sounds after a relatively small number of miles as the grease
settles away from the cage somewhat giving rise to cage rattles. This does
not mean the bearing is worn out. Try listening to any alternator (spin it
by hand) after a year's service,...it will make lots of cage-ticking sounds.
The real problem arises when the case-hardening starts to break-down in the
ball-tracks (both inner and outer tracks) or the balls themselves. This
causes a growling sound which may have an periodic grr-grr-grr sound to it.
This is because only one part of the race's track has started to fall apart.
So it's important to differentiate between these noises.

One thing that some folks dont realise, is that the grease for a
ball-bearing is for the cage lubrication only which has to keep the
rollers/balls apart as they run around their tracks.

> I had my second timing belt replaced 4 month ago. Since then, I drove
> 10K miles. Is it possible that the timing belt wasn't tensioned
> correctly, may be too tight? I ask this because the engine wasn't as
> smooth as when I had the timing belt replaced for the first time.


The real culprit was probably the water-pump. Once the pump's water-seal
starts to leak small amounts of coolant, some of it gets into the pumps
bearing, causing it to rust and generally get noisey real quick.

The pulleys which were replaced, maybe were not replaced the last time?


Jason

> Thanks again for your comments.



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