Toyota in the News (hesitation 5 spd)

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Old 31 Dec 2004, 05:42 am   #1 (permalink)
.Philip.
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Default Toyota in the News (hesitation 5 spd)

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04345/424551.stm

Hesitation issue goes beyond Toyota's luxury line

Friday, December 10, 2004
By Don Hammonds, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Toyota engineers are working to find an acceptable fix for a
hesitation problem in five-speed automatic transmissions in
certain of its luxury Lexus and Toyota models, the Japanese
automaker said yesterday.

The problem was brought to light this week when the
Post-Gazette reported on troubles McMurray resident
Timothy W. Farabaugh was having with his 2004 Lexus
ES330 ("Hesitating Lexus unsettling for owners,"
Dec. 8, 2004). The vehicle didn't respond immediately
when his wife pressed the accelerator while trying to
merge into traffic, causing her to narrowly avoid an
accident.

It became clear the problem was more widespread when
other readers who saw Wednesday's PG story reported
the same hesitation with their Toyotas and other Lexus
models.

It turns out that the five-speed automatic in the 2002 to
2004 Lexus ES300 and ES330 models also is used in
the Toyota Highlander and Lexus RX330 sport utility
models, two of the company's biggest sellers.

"The engineers in Japan are trying to come up with a
fix on this problem ... The first attempt to solve this
has not been completely successful," said Toyota
spokesman Wade Hoyt. That first attempt "involved
reprogramming the computer that controls the
transmission," he added.

The reprogramming "relieved part of the problem,
but did not completely cure it,'' he said -- a statement
with which Alvise Anti of Pittsburgh can concur.

She said her RX330 had the "update -- Lexus calls it
the fix -- but obviously it's not working. The car is
drivable, but if you are not aware of the problem, it
can be dangerous."

Another owner, Beth Caldwell, said her 2004 Toyota
Highlander V-6 with the five-speed automatic transmission
had the same hesitation problem and that when she took
it to the dealer's service department, she was told "that's
how the new transmissions are."

Scott McAliley said he got a similar response when he
approached his dealer about his 2004 Lexus ES330. He
said the dealer told him that, "a.), They couldn't find
anything out of the ordinary and b.), The problem
would diminish over time as the computer learned
our habits."

One 2002 ES330 owner, Michael Moran, said he "made
contact with the customer service department at Lexus
headquarters in California, which led to a test drive of
my car and a resultant confirmation of the malfunctioning
transmission.

"I was offered a new 2004 ES330 for $4,000, an offer I
unfortunately accepted. ... The 2004 ES330 model I am
now driving has an even more pronounced malfunctioning
transmission."

There have been no reports of serious or fatal accidents
because of the problem.

Spokesman Brad Nelson said that once Toyota comes up
with a successful fix, it may issue a technical service bulletin
to dealers so they could make repairs on cars when they are
brought in or launch a service campaign that would notify
owners that there is an issue and that the problem can be
corrected.

Hoyt said he believed that only drivers who were unusually
sensitive to their cars' shifts and performance would notice
the hesitation.



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Old 31 Dec 2004, 08:59 pm   #2 (permalink)
cblake@erols.com
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Default Re: Toyota in the News (hesitation 5 spd)


Well, well......good to see that Toyota is acknowledging this problem.
IS it fixing the problem permanently?

NOW.......when will Toyota acknowledge that the engine oil sludge
problem is NOT an owner-blame phenomenon? WHEN will the owners get an
apology and an extended warranty instead of an "oil gelation program?"

Charlene Blake
cblake@erols.com

Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution

http://www.petitiononline.com/TMC2003/petition.html



..Philip. wrote:
> http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04345/424551.stm
>
> Hesitation issue goes beyond Toyota's luxury line
>
> Friday, December 10, 2004
> By Don Hammonds, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
>
> Toyota engineers are working to find an acceptable fix for a
> hesitation problem in five-speed automatic transmissions in
> certain of its luxury Lexus and Toyota models, the Japanese
> automaker said yesterday.
>


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Old 31 Dec 2004, 09:46 pm   #3 (permalink)
.Philip.
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Default Re: Toyota in the News (hesitation 5 spd)

Well if it isn't the old attention whore ... Charlene.

The issues are quite different. There is nothing the car owner can do to
precipitate the "hesitation" complaint. The appearance of sludge is
entirely a matter of owner neglecting to perform oil services appropriate
for their operating conditions.

When will you start apologizing for things you are not responsible? And
apparently you have not kept up on Toyota's warranty extension.

--

- Philip

cblake@erols.com wrote:
> Well, well......good to see that Toyota is acknowledging this problem.
> IS it fixing the problem permanently?
>
> NOW.......when will Toyota acknowledge that the engine oil sludge
> problem is NOT an owner-blame phenomenon? WHEN will the owners get an
> apology and an extended warranty instead of an "oil gelation program?"
>
> Charlene Blake
> cblake@erols.com
>
> Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution
>
> http://www.petitiononline.com/TMC2003/petition.html
>
>
>
> .Philip. wrote:
>> http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04345/424551.stm
>>
>> Hesitation issue goes beyond Toyota's luxury line
>>
>> Friday, December 10, 2004
>> By Don Hammonds, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
>>
>> Toyota engineers are working to find an acceptable fix for a
>> hesitation problem in five-speed automatic transmissions in
>> certain of its luxury Lexus and Toyota models, the Japanese
>> automaker said yesterday.



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Old 31 Dec 2004, 10:35 pm   #4 (permalink)
Geoff
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Default Please, less abuse if you disagree

Philip,

How do you feel when you see an opinion different to your own? Enraged? Even
if you are moved to abusive comment, should you inflict that on the rest of
us? Is that just sludge as well? I think so.

I have one of these Camrys V6s which are prone to sludging, and it has meant
that I have to be that much more vigilant about proper oil change intervals.
With the hydraulic lifters it has, it is not advisable to do otherwise.
That's not a problem for me, but the reason the issue is often commented on
is that the V6 will develop more sludge than some other engine under the
same conditions. It is well known (NRMA) here in Oz.

Nowadays our expectations of these engines are higher, and I for one am a
little disappointed that the engine can behave the same in this respect as
some old pushrod clunker. In other ways it is acknowledged as a great
engine, so on balance I like it.

Geoff


".Philip." <1chip-state1@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Y1pBd.5028$JC2.4513@newsread2.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
> Well if it isn't the old attention whore ... Charlene.
>
> The issues are quite different. There is nothing the car owner can do to
> precipitate the "hesitation" complaint. The appearance of sludge is
> entirely a matter of owner neglecting to perform oil services appropriate
> for their operating conditions.
>
> When will you start apologizing for things you are not responsible? And
> apparently you have not kept up on Toyota's warranty extension.
>
> --
>
> - Philip
>
> cblake@erols.com wrote:
>> Well, well......good to see that Toyota is acknowledging this problem.
>> IS it fixing the problem permanently?
>>
>> NOW.......when will Toyota acknowledge that the engine oil sludge
>> problem is NOT an owner-blame phenomenon? WHEN will the owners get an
>> apology and an extended warranty instead of an "oil gelation program?"
>>
>> Charlene Blake
>> cblake@erols.com
>>
>> Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution
>>
>> http://www.petitiononline.com/TMC2003/petition.html
>>
>>
>>
>> .Philip. wrote:
>>> http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04345/424551.stm
>>>
>>> Hesitation issue goes beyond Toyota's luxury line
>>>
>>> Friday, December 10, 2004
>>> By Don Hammonds, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
>>>
>>> Toyota engineers are working to find an acceptable fix for a
>>> hesitation problem in five-speed automatic transmissions in
>>> certain of its luxury Lexus and Toyota models, the Japanese
>>> automaker said yesterday.

>
>



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Old 01 Jan 2005, 12:55 am   #5 (permalink)
RVerDon
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Default Re: Please, less abuse if you disagree



> I have one of these Camrys V6s which are prone to sludging, and it has
> meant that I have to be that much more vigilant about proper oil change
> intervals. With the hydraulic lifters it has, it is not advisable to do
> otherwise.

I have a 2005 Camry with the 4 cylinder engine. Is it subject to the
sludging problem as well?

Don in Tracy, Calif.


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Old 01 Jan 2005, 08:42 am   #6 (permalink)
davidj92
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Default Re: Please, less abuse if you disagree


> I have a 2005 Camry with the 4 cylinder engine. Is it subject to the
> sludging problem as well?
>
> Don in Tracy, Calif.


There is no sludging problem on any Toyota engine if the proper services are
performed. Just make sure you follow the recomendations in your owners
manual. Some things that are not explicitly explained in the manual cause
some people confusion such as what is severe or extreme operating
conditions. If you don't know what these are just ask in the NG.
HTH, davidj92


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Old 01 Jan 2005, 12:14 pm   #7 (permalink)
Art
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Default Re: Please, less abuse if you disagree

It was a problem in some 6 cylinder engines. You would have received a
letter from Toyota if you had one of the bad engines. Toyota claims that
the problem will not occur with diligent oil changes.


"RVerDon" <anynews@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:yOKdnYu-bPCj1EvcRVn-qw@comcast.com...
>
>
>> I have one of these Camrys V6s which are prone to sludging, and it has
>> meant that I have to be that much more vigilant about proper oil change
>> intervals. With the hydraulic lifters it has, it is not advisable to do
>> otherwise.

> I have a 2005 Camry with the 4 cylinder engine. Is it subject to the
> sludging problem as well?
>
> Don in Tracy, Calif.
>



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Old 01 Jan 2005, 01:17 pm   #8 (permalink)
Jason James
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Default Re: Please, less abuse if you disagree


"Geoff" <whitefamily1@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:41d62893$0$3436$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au ...
> Philip,
>
> How do you feel when you see an opinion different to your own? Enraged?

Even
> if you are moved to abusive comment, should you inflict that on the rest

of
> us? Is that just sludge as well? I think so.
>
> I have one of these Camrys V6s which are prone to sludging, and it has

meant
> that I have to be that much more vigilant about proper oil change

intervals.
> With the hydraulic lifters it has, it is not advisable to do otherwise.
> That's not a problem for me, but the reason the issue is often commented

on
> is that the V6 will develop more sludge than some other engine under the
> same conditions. It is well known (NRMA) here in Oz.
>
> Nowadays our expectations of these engines are higher, and I for one am a
> little disappointed that the engine can behave the same in this respect as
> some old pushrod clunker. In other ways it is acknowledged as a great
> engine, so on balance I like it.
>
> Geoff


I bought a '96 4 cyl which turned out to have a moderate build-up of black
tarry type substance inside the engine. It had been repaired also. The
sump had been removed and replaced, no doubt to clean-out a build-up of
sludge.
The thing is, to allow the engine to get into this condition would take a
significant degree of abuse with respect to oil-change intervals.

What we are really looking at here is a tendency for high-efficiency toyota
engines with their greater head temperatures, to cause oil decomposition
*well into* the area of oil-change-abuse, but not as tolerant as other
examples.

In other words, Toyota put economy and power as paramount, particularly with
the 5SFE and sister engine-V6s. This engineering emphasis, meant Toyota had
to increase the operating temperature of the heads (where combustion
occurs). There was no problem provided the oil-change intervals were
heeded,..but given these intervals were extended by the owner, then
oil-breakdown occured ealier than with a comparitively lower-tech engine
sunjected to the same abuse.

The actual mechanism they used to increase head-operating temp was (as far
as I know) to slow down the return of overhead gear lubricating oil to the
sump.

Jason



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Old 01 Jan 2005, 09:13 pm   #9 (permalink)
.Philip.
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Default Re: Please, less abuse if you disagree

RVerDon wrote:
>> I have one of these Camrys V6s which are prone to sludging, and it
>> has meant that I have to be that much more vigilant about proper oil
>> change intervals. With the hydraulic lifters it has, it is not
>> advisable to do otherwise.

> I have a 2005 Camry with the 4 cylinder engine. Is it subject to the
> sludging problem as well?
>
> Don in Tracy, Calif.


No more so than the "affected" earlier year range. Do your oil changes at
no longer than 5,000 miles ... and you'll have nothing to fear.
--

- Philip


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Old 01 Jan 2005, 09:13 pm   #10 (permalink)
.Philip.
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Default Re: Please, less abuse if you disagree

Geoff wrote:
> Philip,
>
> I have one of these Camrys V6s which are prone to sludging, and it
> has meant that I have to be that much more vigilant about proper oil
> change intervals. With the hydraulic lifters it has, it is not
> advisable to do otherwise.


First. Your engine does NOT have hydraulic lifters so let the record show
you have a modicum of understanding about your engine's internals. The
percentage of "affected" V6s that actually filed a sludge claim is about 1
tenth of one percent of nearly 3.3 million such engines. Can you just
accept the fact that these few engines were in all likelihood subjected to
oil services that were inappropriate to the use they were subjected to?


> That's not a problem for me, but the
> reason the issue is often commented on is that the V6 will develop
> more sludge than some other engine under the same conditions. It is
> well known (NRMA) here in Oz.


A well known and thanks to the INternet ... often repeated rumor.

> Nowadays our expectations of these engines are higher, and I for one
> am a little disappointed that the engine can behave the same in this
> respect as some old pushrod clunker. In other ways it is acknowledged
> as a great engine, so on balance I like it.
>
> Geoff


Your expectations don't mesh with the build specifications. Whose fault is
that? You might want to compare the current oil service specs with the ones
for a 1998 model.

--

- Philip


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