'99 camry trans. fluid greyish...

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Old 07 Jan 2005, 09:50 am   #1 (permalink)
JerseyMike
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Default '99 camry trans. fluid greyish...

hey group, i have a '99 camry 4cyl w/ 135k on it and this morning i checked
the fluid and it was just below the normal hot level but it was greyish
looking. i called Toyota Service and they have a flush and fill service for
$150.00 so i set an appt. for next Wed. the car runs great and shifts as
well as it did when it was new, is there anything else i should have them
check while the cat is there at the dealer. i asked about replacing the
filter and i was told that w/ the flush and fill service it wasn't
necessary. i've never used this new flush and fill service, on other cars
we always went the way of droping the pan relacing the filter and re-filling
the pan.

any thoughts or advice...

mike............


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Old 07 Jan 2005, 03:38 pm   #2 (permalink)
Jason James
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Default Re: '99 camry trans. fluid greyish...


"JerseyMike" <clamdigger724@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:PcyDd.76687$uM5.31045@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> hey group, i have a '99 camry 4cyl w/ 135k on it and this morning i

checked
> the fluid and it was just below the normal hot level but it was greyish
> looking. i called Toyota Service and they have a flush and fill service

for
> $150.00 so i set an appt. for next Wed. the car runs great and shifts as
> well as it did when it was new, is there anything else i should have them
> check while the cat is there at the dealer. i asked about replacing the
> filter and i was told that w/ the flush and fill service it wasn't
> necessary. i've never used this new flush and fill service, on other cars
> we always went the way of droping the pan relacing the filter and

re-filling
> the pan.
>
> any thoughts or advice...
>
> mike............


Automatic trans-fluid which has either been in service for a long time
and/or has been subject to extreme service will collect band and clutch
friction-material worn off those parts and hold it in suspension, thus
changing its color.

One of the indicators for the need of an auto-service is ATF color-change.

Jason


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Old 07 Jan 2005, 04:16 pm   #3 (permalink)
Comboverfish
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Default Re: '99 camry trans. fluid greyish...

>any thoughts or advice...

If they do actually use a flushing machine it will extract a great deal
of the old fluid in a shorter time and with less effort than the
alternative, which is draining / filling / running engine repeatedly
until fluid is red. The filter in your trans is a simple screen and
can be cleaned easily (unless full of metal pieces from trans failure).
Its not as critical to service as the more common filter types that
trap dirt in a matted woven fiber element. But you do have to remove
the pan if you want to clean it.

Toyota MDT in MO

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Old 07 Jan 2005, 06:53 pm   #4 (permalink)
hachiroku
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Default Re: '99 camry trans. fluid greyish...

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:50:07 +0000, JerseyMike wrote:

> hey group, i have a '99 camry 4cyl w/ 135k on it and this morning i checked
> the fluid and it was just below the normal hot level but it was greyish
> looking. i called Toyota Service and they have a flush and fill service for
> $150.00 so i set an appt. for next Wed. the car runs great and shifts as
> well as it did when it was new, is there anything else i should have them
> check while the cat is there at the dealer. i asked about replacing the
> filter and i was told that w/ the flush and fill service it wasn't
> necessary. i've never used this new flush and fill service, on other cars
> we always went the way of droping the pan relacing the filter and re-filling
> the pan.
>
> any thoughts or advice...
>
> mike............



I have had a lot of people tell me, after seeing this on the web, that the
'power flush' method of changing tranny sauce is a good way to kill a
tranny! I know of 2 cars this has happened to; tranny was working but the
fluid was dark, after flushing the cars went 100~1000 miles and the tranny
went bye-bye. I have also had a tech tell me the same thing, and to just
drain and fill, drain and fill every 500 or so miles until the fluid
starts to turn red again. Maybe MDT Tech can shed some more light?
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Old 08 Jan 2005, 11:10 am   #5 (permalink)
Wolfgang
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Default Re: '99 camry trans. fluid greyish...

You can do a lot of partial drains and fills for $150! Changing the trans
fluid every 3k oil change would get nealy all in 3 or 4 changes. Cost would
be $10-20. While older yotas used Dextron2/3 newer ones (not sure year of
the switch) use a different fluid (Type T). Dextron is bright red - what
color is the new stuff?

"JerseyMike" <clamdigger724@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:PcyDd.76687$uM5.31045@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> hey group, i have a '99 camry 4cyl w/ 135k on it and this morning i
> checked
> the fluid and it was just below the normal hot level but it was greyish
> looking. i called Toyota Service and they have a flush and fill service
> for
> $150.00 so i set an appt. for next Wed. the car runs great and shifts as
> well as it did when it was new, is there anything else i should have them
> check while the cat is there at the dealer. i asked about replacing the
> filter and i was told that w/ the flush and fill service it wasn't
> necessary. i've never used this new flush and fill service, on other cars
> we always went the way of droping the pan relacing the filter and
> re-filling
> the pan.
>
> any thoughts or advice...
>
> mike............
>
>



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Old 08 Jan 2005, 10:34 pm   #6 (permalink)
Viperkiller
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Default Re: '99 camry trans. fluid greyish...

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:50:07 GMT, "JerseyMike"
<clamdigger724@yahoo.com> wrote:

>hey group, i have a '99 camry 4cyl w/ 135k on it and this morning i checked
>the fluid and it was just below the normal hot level but it was greyish
>looking. i called Toyota Service and they have a flush and fill service for
>$150.00 so i set an appt. for next Wed. the car runs great and shifts as
>well as it did when it was new, is there anything else i should have them
>check while the cat is there at the dealer. i asked about replacing the
>filter and i was told that w/ the flush and fill service it wasn't
>necessary. i've never used this new flush and fill service, on other cars
>we always went the way of droping the pan relacing the filter and re-filling
>the pan.
>
>any thoughts or advice...
>
>mike............
>

The complete flush is better than just opening the pan as far as the
fluid is concerned because you then get all of it. If you flush it
out you will find that there is more to replace than the 2.5 quarts
that's in the pan. This is because you're getting all of the fluid in
the torque converter and everything else.

Some people will tell you that this has actually been a negative
experience for them and that they've had a perfectly good working
transmission fail on them after this change. From what I've seen,
this indeed happens on 2 situations:
1) improper fluid used
2) or improperly refilled
Read your manual and make sure that the dealer uses the proper fluid.
Also after they give you the car, check the fluid level yourself.
You'd rather that it be a little too low than a little too high. If
the fluid is too high, there's too much pressure and you'll damage
your valve bodies on it.

I have mine done on my cars all the time. I typically have it done
every 50,000 miles. The only problem I had was once when it was over
filled.
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Old 09 Jan 2005, 09:49 pm   #7 (permalink)
Rog
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Default Re: '99 camry trans. fluid greyish...

The T-IV fluid is also bright red.

"Wolfgang" <NOwolfgangdieterSPAM@cox.net> wrote in message
news:KuUDd.11635$B95.5836@lakeread02...
> You can do a lot of partial drains and fills for $150! Changing the trans
> fluid every 3k oil change would get nealy all in 3 or 4 changes. Cost

would
> be $10-20. While older yotas used Dextron2/3 newer ones (not sure year of
> the switch) use a different fluid (Type T). Dextron is bright red - what
> color is the new stuff?
>
> "JerseyMike" <clamdigger724@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:PcyDd.76687$uM5.31045@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > hey group, i have a '99 camry 4cyl w/ 135k on it and this morning i
> > checked
> > the fluid and it was just below the normal hot level but it was greyish
> > looking. i called Toyota Service and they have a flush and fill service
> > for
> > $150.00 so i set an appt. for next Wed. the car runs great and shifts

as
> > well as it did when it was new, is there anything else i should have

them
> > check while the cat is there at the dealer. i asked about replacing the
> > filter and i was told that w/ the flush and fill service it wasn't
> > necessary. i've never used this new flush and fill service, on other

cars
> > we always went the way of droping the pan relacing the filter and
> > re-filling
> > the pan.
> >
> > any thoughts or advice...
> >
> > mike............
> >
> >

>
>



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Old 14 Jan 2005, 08:09 am   #8 (permalink)
Ken Day
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Default Re: '99 camry trans. fluid greyish...

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 23:34:02 -0500, Viperkiller <nothing@nunya.net>
wrote:

>On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:50:07 GMT, "JerseyMike"
><clamdigger724@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>hey group, i have a '99 camry 4cyl w/ 135k on it and this morning i checked
>>the fluid and it was just below the normal hot level but it was greyish
>>looking. i called Toyota Service and they have a flush and fill service for
>>$150.00 so i set an appt. for next Wed. the car runs great and shifts as
>>well as it did when it was new, is there anything else i should have them
>>check while the cat is there at the dealer. i asked about replacing the
>>filter and i was told that w/ the flush and fill service it wasn't
>>necessary. i've never used this new flush and fill service, on other cars
>>we always went the way of droping the pan relacing the filter and re-filling
>>the pan.
>>
>>any thoughts or advice...
>>
>>mike............
>>

>The complete flush is better than just opening the pan as far as the
>fluid is concerned because you then get all of it. If you flush it
>out you will find that there is more to replace than the 2.5 quarts
>that's in the pan. This is because you're getting all of the fluid in
>the torque converter and everything else.
>
>Some people will tell you that this has actually been a negative
>experience for them and that they've had a perfectly good working
>transmission fail on them after this change. From what I've seen,
>this indeed happens on 2 situations:
> 1) improper fluid used
> 2) or improperly refilled
>Read your manual and make sure that the dealer uses the proper fluid.
>Also after they give you the car, check the fluid level yourself.
>You'd rather that it be a little too low than a little too high. If
>the fluid is too high, there's too much pressure and you'll damage
>your valve bodies on it.
>
>I have mine done on my cars all the time. I typically have it done
>every 50,000 miles. The only problem I had was once when it was over
>filled.


I agree that overfilling the transmission is not a good thing , but
with all due respect , it does not 'increase' the pressure and damage
the valve body. The pressure is controlled by the pump and the volume
of oil does not change this.
Overfilling however , causes the fluid to foam and aerated fluid can
lead to heating and 'low pressure' problems.
KD
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Old 14 Jan 2005, 08:40 am   #9 (permalink)
Ken Day
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Default Re: '99 camry trans. fluid greyish...

On 7 Jan 2005 14:16:02 -0800, "Comboverfish" <comboverfish@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>>any thoughts or advice...

>
>If they do actually use a flushing machine it will extract a great deal
>of the old fluid in a shorter time and with less effort than the
>alternative, which is draining / filling / running engine repeatedly
>until fluid is red. The filter in your trans is a simple screen and
>can be cleaned easily (unless full of metal pieces from trans failure).
>Its not as critical to service as the more common filter types that
>trap dirt in a matted woven fiber element. But you do have to remove
>the pan if you want to clean it.
>
>Toyota MDT in MO

Since you are a Toyota tech and I'm only a long time shade tree
mechanic, I have a question to run by you if you don't mind.
I'm rebuilding a 96 Camry 2.2 , 110 k , which had a water pump fail
and caused severe overheating. So hot the engine quit.
After pulling the pan and getting a peek at the bearings , I decided
to do a rebuild. Anti freeze had made it's journey to the oil pan. :-(

I pulled the head and straightedged and it had .012 warp.
The warp caused the cams to run too tight....so , I thought I would
try honing the end journals on both the intake and exhaust cams.
I used a horizontal honing machine with an exandable hone and took
material from the journal cap, creating an egg shaped journal which is
now .003 above service limit...on the cap.The cams run free after
this. I also had a friend cut the head .016 to clear up the warp.
You're probably raising an eyebrow right now , or maybe both. LOL
but my line of thinking , which may be all wet , goes like this..

Incidentally , this will be my own engine , I don't experiment like
this on others.

My thinking : Since the cams ride on the lifters , springs, all force
is exerted upward and the 'slop' is on the bottom of the journal.
Now , since the middle journals are well within limits I figure this
will stop any wobble that could occur. There are at least 2 lobes on a
lifter at any given time so there is going to be constant pressure
upward into the area I honed. I could have used shims and accomplished
the same thing , but , this is how it worked out.
My biggest concern was the loss of oil pressure. A Toyota tech who is
well respected here told me that would not be a problem since the
amount of oil that gets to the end of the cam (cam is hollow and oils
journals)is limited by a restricted opening to keep too much oil from
accumulating in the head.
So , what is your thinking on this. I would certainly appreciate your
thoughts....and PleasE , feel free to Insult , call me a Dummy or
whatever , as long as you give me your honest opinion.

Thanks so much in advance.

Ken
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Old 14 Jan 2005, 10:21 am   #10 (permalink)
Philip
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Default Re: '99 camry trans. fluid greyish...

Ken Day wrote:
> On 7 Jan 2005 14:16:02 -0800, "Comboverfish" <comboverfish@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> any thoughts or advice...

>>
>> If they do actually use a flushing machine it will extract a great
>> deal of the old fluid in a shorter time and with less effort than the
>> alternative, which is draining / filling / running engine repeatedly
>> until fluid is red. The filter in your trans is a simple screen and
>> can be cleaned easily (unless full of metal pieces from trans
>> failure). Its not as critical to service as the more common filter
>> types that trap dirt in a matted woven fiber element. But you do
>> have to remove the pan if you want to clean it.
>>
>> Toyota MDT in MO

> Since you are a Toyota tech and I'm only a long time shade tree
> mechanic, I have a question to run by you if you don't mind.
> I'm rebuilding a 96 Camry 2.2 , 110 k , which had a water pump fail
> and caused severe overheating. So hot the engine quit.
> After pulling the pan and getting a peek at the bearings , I decided
> to do a rebuild. Anti freeze had made it's journey to the oil pan. :-(
>
> I pulled the head and straightedged and it had .012 warp.
> The warp caused the cams to run too tight....so , I thought I would
> try honing the end journals on both the intake and exhaust cams.
> I used a horizontal honing machine with an exandable hone and took
> material from the journal cap, creating an egg shaped journal which is
> now .003 above service limit...on the cap.The cams run free after
> this. I also had a friend cut the head .016 to clear up the warp.
> You're probably raising an eyebrow right now , or maybe both. LOL
> but my line of thinking , which may be all wet , goes like this..
>
> Incidentally , this will be my own engine , I don't experiment like
> this on others.
>
> My thinking : Since the cams ride on the lifters , springs, all force
> is exerted upward and the 'slop' is on the bottom of the journal.
> Now , since the middle journals are well within limits I figure this
> will stop any wobble that could occur. There are at least 2 lobes on a
> lifter at any given time so there is going to be constant pressure
> upward into the area I honed. I could have used shims and accomplished
> the same thing , but , this is how it worked out.
> My biggest concern was the loss of oil pressure. A Toyota tech who is
> well respected here told me that would not be a problem since the
> amount of oil that gets to the end of the cam (cam is hollow and oils
> journals)is limited by a restricted opening to keep too much oil from
> accumulating in the head.
> So , what is your thinking on this. I would certainly appreciate your
> thoughts....and PleasE , feel free to Insult , call me a Dummy or
> whatever , as long as you give me your honest opinion.
>
> Thanks so much in advance.
>
> Ken



Wobbling cams make for more valve noise ... depending on the degree wobble.
This also makes setting the valve lash accurately more precarious. What
about the cylinder block deck? How much warp there? Another thing about
severe overheating is ... the aluminum will stretch and experience localized
softening. This sometimes shows up as a valve seat coming loose in the head
and then separating from the head while the engine is running. Picture
THAT carnage.

This was a learning exercise because simply junking the head in favor of a
good used one would have been a FAR more reliable repair.
--

~Philip.


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