Toyota of Hackensack, NJ: Review

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Old 09 Jan 2005, 01:39 pm   #1 (permalink)
3vn5l9b02@sneakemail.com
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Default Toyota of Hackensack, NJ: Review

I submitted this review of Toyota of Hackensack, NJ, to the mechanics
review section of Car Talk's site (www.cartalk.com/content/mechx/), but
they never posted it. Apparently, they don't post negative reviews. I
hope Usenet readers will find it useful.

Review of Toyota of Hackensack, NJ

Overpriced, dishonest, rude. It's hard to express how bad I think this
place is, but that's as good a start as any.

In the interest of fairness, let me say that they're fairly courteous
when they're trying to take your money. And, they have a shuttle van,
so they'll take you home and pick you up later in the day.
Nevertheless, I wouldn't take my car here again.

I initially took my Camry 4-cylinder to Toyota of Hackensack because I
wanted to get the timing belt changed and they had a good special,
priced at $200. I expected I'd get the water pump and oil seals
replaced, but unfortunately I didn't price those things beforehand. A
few hours after bringing in my car, they called me with the prices. For
the water pump, the price included about 1.5 hours of labor (billed at
$85/hr); for the oil seals, about 1 hour of labor. I asked directly,
"Given that I'm already paying for the timing belt replacement, does it
really take that much labor to do the extra work?" I was told yes.
Later on, I learned that that's not true at all. The water pump
requires dealing with only 3 screws. A good, honest mechanic will
charge little or nothing extra for labor for the water pump and oil
seals, if they're already doing the timing belt.

Later on, when I pursued this issue with the service manager, he said
that they use standard book prices and it doesn't matter how much time
a job really would take -- and that's that.

Although I went in because of the timing belt special, I came out
paying an arm and a leg. To make matters worse, I had a 10%-off coupon,
which hadn't been applied properly. A service guy tried to tell me that
they hadn't applied it to the entire price because they'd reduced the
number of hours of labor instead! Considering how much they jacked up
the labor, this was clearly bogus. Later on, I also discovered that the
cap for the windshield wiper fluid was broken off. I tried to get them
to replace it, but they were rude and kept saying that they couldn't be
sure their mechanic had done it. He was the only one under there except
for me, and it sure wasn't me. After I spent so much money there, you'd
think they'd give me a new cap, but no.

There's no way I'd recommend that anyone go to Toyota of Hackensack. I
needed some more work done and I went to Park Performance (aka Toyota &
BMW Autoworks) in Fairview, NJ. What a difference. You can have
confidence in their work and their honesty, at a reasonable price. Park
Performance replaced my front axle boots for $250, using Toyota parts
they buy through Toyota of Hackensack. Toyota of Hackensack had given
me a price of $556 for the same job. I calculate that Toyota of
Hackensack would have charged me for 5.5 hours of labor, whereas Park
Performance charged for 3 hours at $60/hr. How can the difference be
that big? For the work Toyota of Hackensack did for me, Park
Performance would have done it for $100 less, and Park's work would
have included the timing belt tensioners, which weren't replaced by
Hackensack.

Don't make the mistake of going to Toyota of Hackensack. You've been
warned.

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Old 09 Jan 2005, 02:18 pm   #2 (permalink)
Car Guy
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Default Re: Toyota of Hackensack, NJ: Review

Try posting this response to http://www.toyotaofhackensack.com/ and see what
they say.

Thanks for the tip.

3vn5l9b02@sneakemail.com wrote:
> I submitted this review of Toyota of Hackensack, NJ, to the mechanics
> review section of Car Talk's site (www.cartalk.com/content/mechx/),
> but they never posted it. Apparently, they don't post negative
> reviews. I hope Usenet readers will find it useful.
>
> Review of Toyota of Hackensack, NJ
>
> Overpriced, dishonest, rude. It's hard to express how bad I think this
> place is, but that's as good a start as any.
>
> In the interest of fairness, let me say that they're fairly courteous
> when they're trying to take your money. And, they have a shuttle van,
> so they'll take you home and pick you up later in the day.
> Nevertheless, I wouldn't take my car here again.
>
> I initially took my Camry 4-cylinder to Toyota of Hackensack because I
> wanted to get the timing belt changed and they had a good special,
> priced at $200. I expected I'd get the water pump and oil seals
> replaced, but unfortunately I didn't price those things beforehand. A
> few hours after bringing in my car, they called me with the prices.
> For the water pump, the price included about 1.5 hours of labor
> (billed at $85/hr); for the oil seals, about 1 hour of labor. I asked
> directly, "Given that I'm already paying for the timing belt
> replacement, does it really take that much labor to do the extra
> work?" I was told yes. Later on, I learned that that's not true at
> all. The water pump requires dealing with only 3 screws. A good,
> honest mechanic will charge little or nothing extra for labor for the
> water pump and oil seals, if they're already doing the timing belt.
>
> Later on, when I pursued this issue with the service manager, he said
> that they use standard book prices and it doesn't matter how much time
> a job really would take -- and that's that.
>
> Although I went in because of the timing belt special, I came out
> paying an arm and a leg. To make matters worse, I had a 10%-off
> coupon, which hadn't been applied properly. A service guy tried to
> tell me that they hadn't applied it to the entire price because
> they'd reduced the number of hours of labor instead! Considering how
> much they jacked up the labor, this was clearly bogus. Later on, I
> also discovered that the cap for the windshield wiper fluid was
> broken off. I tried to get them to replace it, but they were rude and
> kept saying that they couldn't be sure their mechanic had done it. He
> was the only one under there except for me, and it sure wasn't me.
> After I spent so much money there, you'd think they'd give me a new
> cap, but no.
>
> There's no way I'd recommend that anyone go to Toyota of Hackensack. I
> needed some more work done and I went to Park Performance (aka Toyota
> & BMW Autoworks) in Fairview, NJ. What a difference. You can have
> confidence in their work and their honesty, at a reasonable price.
> Park Performance replaced my front axle boots for $250, using Toyota
> parts they buy through Toyota of Hackensack. Toyota of Hackensack had
> given me a price of $556 for the same job. I calculate that Toyota of
> Hackensack would have charged me for 5.5 hours of labor, whereas Park
> Performance charged for 3 hours at $60/hr. How can the difference be
> that big? For the work Toyota of Hackensack did for me, Park
> Performance would have done it for $100 less, and Park's work would
> have included the timing belt tensioners, which weren't replaced by
> Hackensack.
>
> Don't make the mistake of going to Toyota of Hackensack. You've been
> warned.



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Old 10 Jan 2005, 07:56 am   #3 (permalink)
JimmySchmittsLovesChocolateMilk
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Default Re: Toyota of Hackensack, NJ: Review

> Later on, when I pursued this issue with the service manager, he said
> that they use standard book prices and it doesn't matter how much time
> a job really would take -- and that's that.


No big surprise there to me,
I'd be more surprised to find a place that would charge the other way.
the only time I have ever gotten labour hrs reduced from book time was when
I was a friend of the service manager, or more importantly of the mechanic
actually doing the work. Its a lousy system the book time, but its much
better for all than the alternative. Book time is a necessarily evil IMO. I
find the best way to let the lowest prices is to chum with the shop up front
rather than be confrontational. buy them a coffee or something.


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Old 12 Jan 2005, 05:42 pm   #4 (permalink)
Comboverfish
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Default Re: Toyota of Hackensack, NJ: Review


3vn5l9b02@sneakemail.com wrote:

> I initially took my Camry 4-cylinder to Toyota of Hackensack because

I
> wanted to get the timing belt changed and they had a good special,
> priced at $200. I expected I'd get the water pump and oil seals
> replaced, but unfortunately I didn't price those things beforehand. A
> few hours after bringing in my car, they called me with the prices.

For
> the water pump, the price included about 1.5 hours of labor (billed

at
> $85/hr); for the oil seals, about 1 hour of labor. I asked directly,
> "Given that I'm already paying for the timing belt replacement, does

it
> really take that much labor to do the extra work?" I was told yes.
> Later on, I learned that that's not true at all. The water pump
> requires dealing with only 3 screws. A good, honest mechanic will
> charge little or nothing extra for labor for the water pump and oil
> seals, if they're already doing the timing belt.


First off, I'm sorry you had a bad experience at a Toyota dealership.
We have a bad one or two by reputation in our area and sometimes we get
work from their fed up customers. If the folks at Hackensack Toyota
were rude to you, then by all means try another dealer or independent
shop. But below I will attempt to explain the actual operations
involved in the "add on" waterpump and front engine seals jobs...

At my dealer we charge 1 hour extra for the waterpump on any 5SFE
engine. What you heard about "just 3 extra bolts" is an
understatement. The additional time is mainly for draining the cooling
system all the way down below the head and refilling. It takes a
little longer to fill and bleed the cooling system than when just
draining coolant from the radiator. Realize that we bill 0.5 hours
just for a standard cooling system drain and fill, which is fair and
pretty standard. Then add R&R pump, which involves more than just 3
bolts; there are 4 gaskets or seals, 4 nuts in a tight spot, plus R&R 2
pulleys and finally add 'knowing what you are doing' to the equation
(not that anyone ever considers that).

The oil seals are another case where they don't just pop in magically
for free. We charge somewhere between 0.5 and 1.0 extra (I don't know
exactly) for replacing the 3 shaft seals and the large oil pump oring
gasket. When you have everything taken off the front of the engine
(this is not necessary for just a Tbelt replacement), then you have to
break loose the cam pulley best done with a special cam holder tool,
remove cam seal and replace carefully with the correct sized driving
socket/tool, all with 2 inches of space to work in. The oil pump comes
off w/ about 8 bolts and the seal is replaced and the shaft gear is
removed to replace shaft seal. The crank gear is removed and crank
seal R&Red.

Neither of these 2 labor examples were outrageously billed. My dealer
might have saved you 0.5 or more hours total, and an independent shop
maybe even more. You need to realize what goes into the work though,
not what someone may have told you off the cuff.
Just my 3 cents,

Toyota MDT in MO

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Old 12 Jan 2005, 05:58 pm   #5 (permalink)
kenny
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Default Re: Toyota of Hackensack, NJ: Review

Is it necessary to replace the water pump when doing the belt? I know
there is redundancy, but how often do water pumps go?

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Old 13 Jan 2005, 04:48 pm   #6 (permalink)
Car Guy
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Default Re: Toyota of Hackensack, NJ: Review

the idea is that if the pump leaks on the belt you gotta replace the pump
AND the belt again.

"kenny" <bri1600bv@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1105574325.092530.256180@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
> Is it necessary to replace the water pump when doing the belt? I know
> there is redundancy, but how often do water pumps go?
>



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Old 14 Jan 2005, 10:38 am   #7 (permalink)
Ray O
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Default Re: Toyota of Hackensack, NJ: Review


"Car Guy" <ac222@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news5KdnV-4ws4GZ3vcRVn-hQ@rogers.com...
> the idea is that if the pump leaks on the belt you gotta replace the pump
> AND the belt again.
>

Or, if the timing belt hasn't slipped to the point where it is worn, you
could use a rag, dry off the belt, and re-use it.

The idea behind replacing the water pump when replacing the timing belt is
more like insurance so you won't have to pay all of the labor to replace the
water pump later on if it fails. Water pumps do not fail THAT often. I
personally would skip replacing the water pump at the 60 k miles mark and do
it at the 120 k replacement or delay the first T-belt replacement to 90 k
miles and then do both then.

I had the opposite happen once. The water pump failed while still under the
powertrain warranty and so I only had to pay the cost of the timing belt to
take care of it when the water pump was replaced. ;-)

--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply


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Old 14 Jan 2005, 09:47 pm   #8 (permalink)
kenny
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Default Re: Toyota of Hackensack, NJ: Review

How long do belts last? My book says replace at 60K under "severe"
schedule but doesn't mention it under regular schedule.

When talking about the timing belt it says (only for Schedule "A"
(meaning severe)).

Does that mean if you don't drive it severe, then it lasts forever?
This seems unlikely.
I have 150K on it now. 10 year old car.

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Old 17 Jan 2005, 10:59 am   #9 (permalink)
Ray O
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Default Re: Toyota of Hackensack, NJ: Review


"kenny" <bri1600bv@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1105760862.425538.304520@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
> How long do belts last? My book says replace at 60K under "severe"
> schedule but doesn't mention it under regular schedule.
>
> When talking about the timing belt it says (only for Schedule "A"
> (meaning severe)).
>
> Does that mean if you don't drive it severe, then it lasts forever?
> This seems unlikely.
> I have 150K on it now. 10 year old car.
>

If you have 150 k on the original timing belt, I'd think seriously about
having it changed. Nothing lasts forever, and a little preventative
maintenance won't hurt.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply


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Old 24 Mar 2005, 12:56 am   #10 (permalink)
Raneman-GR
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Default Re: Toyota of Hackensack, NJ: Review

If I am ever in Hackensack I will defnitely not go to a Toyota dealer there,
and, there are
others out there like the one you mention.......if Toyota was a
producer/distributor/seller of
gasoline how much do you think you would pay per gallon of
gas.......whew....

Gordon


<3vn5l9b02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:1105299540.190373.138410@c13g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
> I submitted this review of Toyota of Hackensack, NJ, to the mechanics
> review section of Car Talk's site (www.cartalk.com/content/mechx/), but
> they never posted it. Apparently, they don't post negative reviews. I
> hope Usenet readers will find it useful.
>
> Review of Toyota of Hackensack, NJ
>
> Overpriced, dishonest, rude. It's hard to express how bad I think this
> place is, but that's as good a start as any.
>
> In the interest of fairness, let me say that they're fairly courteous
> when they're trying to take your money. And, they have a shuttle van,
> so they'll take you home and pick you up later in the day.
> Nevertheless, I wouldn't take my car here again.
>
> I initially took my Camry 4-cylinder to Toyota of Hackensack because I
> wanted to get the timing belt changed and they had a good special,
> priced at $200. I expected I'd get the water pump and oil seals
> replaced, but unfortunately I didn't price those things beforehand. A
> few hours after bringing in my car, they called me with the prices. For
> the water pump, the price included about 1.5 hours of labor (billed at
> $85/hr); for the oil seals, about 1 hour of labor. I asked directly,
> "Given that I'm already paying for the timing belt replacement, does it
> really take that much labor to do the extra work?" I was told yes.
> Later on, I learned that that's not true at all. The water pump
> requires dealing with only 3 screws. A good, honest mechanic will
> charge little or nothing extra for labor for the water pump and oil
> seals, if they're already doing the timing belt.
>
> Later on, when I pursued this issue with the service manager, he said
> that they use standard book prices and it doesn't matter how much time
> a job really would take -- and that's that.
>
> Although I went in because of the timing belt special, I came out
> paying an arm and a leg. To make matters worse, I had a 10%-off coupon,
> which hadn't been applied properly. A service guy tried to tell me that
> they hadn't applied it to the entire price because they'd reduced the
> number of hours of labor instead! Considering how much they jacked up
> the labor, this was clearly bogus. Later on, I also discovered that the
> cap for the windshield wiper fluid was broken off. I tried to get them
> to replace it, but they were rude and kept saying that they couldn't be
> sure their mechanic had done it. He was the only one under there except
> for me, and it sure wasn't me. After I spent so much money there, you'd
> think they'd give me a new cap, but no.
>
> There's no way I'd recommend that anyone go to Toyota of Hackensack. I
> needed some more work done and I went to Park Performance (aka Toyota &
> BMW Autoworks) in Fairview, NJ. What a difference. You can have
> confidence in their work and their honesty, at a reasonable price. Park
> Performance replaced my front axle boots for $250, using Toyota parts
> they buy through Toyota of Hackensack. Toyota of Hackensack had given
> me a price of $556 for the same job. I calculate that Toyota of
> Hackensack would have charged me for 5.5 hours of labor, whereas Park
> Performance charged for 3 hours at $60/hr. How can the difference be
> that big? For the work Toyota of Hackensack did for me, Park
> Performance would have done it for $100 less, and Park's work would
> have included the timing belt tensioners, which weren't replaced by
> Hackensack.
>
> Don't make the mistake of going to Toyota of Hackensack. You've been
> warned.
>


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