world's best auto manufacturer

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Old 25 Jan 2005, 05:27 pm   #1 (permalink)
Daniel
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Default world's best auto manufacturer

According to Fortune magazine:

"Indeed, by nearly every measure, Toyota is the world's best auto
manufacturer. It may be the world's best manufacturer, period. "

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/ceo/a...romoid=preview
or:

http://tinyurl.com/47tr2

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Old 25 Jan 2005, 08:11 pm   #2 (permalink)
hachiroku
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Default Re: world's best auto manufacturer

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:27:18 -0800, Daniel wrote:

> According to Fortune magazine:
>
> "Indeed, by nearly every measure, Toyota is the world's best auto
> manufacturer. It may be the world's best manufacturer, period. "


I don't know, Panasonic makes pretty decent products, too.

i have a number of 'Toys' nad they are all well made. Inexpensive perhaps,
but well made. I had a '90 Nissan 240SX and could not believe how
downright CHEAPLY BUILT it was. A blast to drive, a real headturner, but
CHEAP!

On the contrary, my '88 Supra I got around Thanksgiving is about the BEST
made car I have ever seen (Mind you, I have had about a dozen Toys, the
Nissan, a VW Jetta and a Honda. I also currently own a '94 LHS that seems
ok) It is SOLID! All the tricks I use in my other Toys don't work in this
one, like adding lights, wiring the stereo, speakers, etc. It is a bit of
a challenge to maintain the stock appearance and not drill or cut, and get
around all the structures in the car. BTW, it is a Targa ("Sportroof") so
it is probably braced a little bit more...

>
> http://www.fortune.com/fortune/ceo/a...romoid=preview
> or:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/47tr2


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Old 30 Jan 2005, 05:19 am   #3 (permalink)
kiselink@mindspring.com
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Default Re: world's best auto manufacturer

On 25 Jan 2005 15:27:18 -0800, "Daniel" <nospampls2002@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>According to Fortune magazine:
>
>"Indeed, by nearly every measure, Toyota is the world's best auto
>manufacturer. It may be the world's best manufacturer, period. "


Best at what?

I have both an accord and a camry with high mileage on both. The
accord has had much fewer problems. Also, servicability is much
better on the accord. (Consider changing the transmission fluid - in
a camry gobbs of it will never drain resulting in lots of dirty fluid
still in the car after a fluid change).

Toyota has more techi / convenience features but honda is a better
lasting car. Check out price depriation between the two manufactures
- honda's depreciate slower - indicating that the market place views
older honda's superior to older toyota.

Most of these issues are inconsequential if you trade out your cars
fairly often though.
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Old 30 Jan 2005, 07:35 am   #4 (permalink)
Daniel
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Default Re: world's best auto manufacturer

Best at what?
-----------
Fortune is a business magazine.
They most likely mean best at market penetration and growth in business
profitability.
Toyota is actually a much larger company than Honda.

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Old 30 Jan 2005, 08:51 pm   #5 (permalink)
Liberalsareliars
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Default Re: world's best auto manufacturer

kiselink@mindspring.com wrote:
|| On 25 Jan 2005 15:27:18 -0800, "Daniel" <nospampls2002@yahoo.com>
|| wrote:
||
||| According to Fortune magazine:
|||
||| "Indeed, by nearly every measure, Toyota is the world's best auto
||| manufacturer. It may be the world's best manufacturer, period. "
||
|| Best at what?
||
|| I have both an accord and a camry with high mileage on both. The
|| accord has had much fewer problems. Also, servicability is much
|| better on the accord. (Consider changing the transmission fluid -
|| in a camry gobbs of it will never drain resulting in lots of dirty
|| fluid still in the car after a fluid change).
||
|| Toyota has more techi / convenience features but honda is a better
|| lasting car. Check out price depriation between the two manufactures
|| - honda's depreciate slower - indicating that the market place views
|| older honda's superior to older toyota.
||
|| Most of these issues are inconsequential if you trade out your cars
|| fairly often though.

Only whack jobs with more money than brains constantly trade in their
vehicles.


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Old 31 Jan 2005, 08:29 am   #6 (permalink)
davidj92
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Default Re: world's best auto manufacturer

Liberalsareliars" <l$# wrote:

> Only whack jobs with more money than brains constantly trade in their
> vehicles.


Don't hold back, tell us what you really think.
davidj92


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Old 31 Jan 2005, 04:24 pm   #7 (permalink)
Viperkiller
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Default Re: world's best auto manufacturer

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 06:19:56 -0500, kiselink@mindspring.com wrote:

>On 25 Jan 2005 15:27:18 -0800, "Daniel" <nospampls2002@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>According to Fortune magazine:
>>
>>"Indeed, by nearly every measure, Toyota is the world's best auto
>>manufacturer. It may be the world's best manufacturer, period. "

>
>Best at what?
>
>I have both an accord and a camry with high mileage on both. The
>accord has had much fewer problems. Also, servicability is much
>better on the accord. (Consider changing the transmission fluid - in
>a camry gobbs of it will never drain resulting in lots of dirty fluid
>still in the car after a fluid change).
>
>Toyota has more techi / convenience features but honda is a better
>lasting car. Check out price depriation between the two manufactures
>- honda's depreciate slower - indicating that the market place views
>older honda's superior to older toyota.
>
>Most of these issues are inconsequential if you trade out your cars
>fairly often though.


Total company long-term reliability records don't support what you are
saying. In your singular experience, your point-of-view is
understandable. If you look at Consumer Reports and J.D. Power
surverys, Toyotas have been the best.

Also consider, Honda parts prices are more expensive too. Take brake
pads for example. A 2001 Prelude's front brake pads cost more than a
2001 Celica's yet the Celica outbrakes the Prelude. Call both dealers
for the timing belt and water pump prices too. Toyota lists platinum
plugs for $10. Honda lists them for $16. Toyota even lists their
iridium plugs for $12. Two Honda wiper refills run for about $14. At
Toyota, they cost about $9.

Serviceability isn't as good either. Take a 2004 RAV4 versus the 2004
CRV. In the RAV4, you can easily replace the A/C filter yourself. In
the CRV, dash pieces have to be taken apart which results in people
bringing them in to a service shop. On your Camry and Accord, try
replacing the distributor rotor. In the Camry, you simply pull out
the rotor and push the new one in. In the Accord, you'd have to
remove the screw on the side which necessitates for you to keep
cranking the engine until the screw is accessible from certain holes.

It's great that you've had good experiences with both brands. I
believe when you say you've had less problems with your Accord. Just
keep in mind, most people have experiences less problems overall with
Toyota than Honda.


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Old 01 Feb 2005, 08:24 pm   #8 (permalink)
hachiroku
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Default Re: world's best auto manufacturer

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:24:16 -0500, Viperkiller wrote:

> On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 06:19:56 -0500, kiselink@mindspring.com wrote:
>
>>On 25 Jan 2005 15:27:18 -0800, "Daniel" <nospampls2002@yahoo.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>According to Fortune magazine:
>>>
>>>"Indeed, by nearly every measure, Toyota is the world's best auto
>>>manufacturer. It may be the world's best manufacturer, period. "

>>
>>Best at what?
>>
>>I have both an accord and a camry with high mileage on both. The
>>accord has had much fewer problems. Also, servicability is much
>>better on the accord. (Consider changing the transmission fluid - in
>>a camry gobbs of it will never drain resulting in lots of dirty fluid
>>still in the car after a fluid change).
>>
>>Toyota has more techi / convenience features but honda is a better
>>lasting car. Check out price depriation between the two manufactures
>>- honda's depreciate slower - indicating that the market place views
>>older honda's superior to older toyota.
>>
>>Most of these issues are inconsequential if you trade out your cars
>>fairly often though.

>
> Total company long-term reliability records don't support what you are
> saying. In your singular experience, your point-of-view is
> understandable. If you look at Consumer Reports and J.D. Power
> surverys, Toyotas have been the best.
>
> Also consider, Honda parts prices are more expensive too. Take brake
> pads for example. A 2001 Prelude's front brake pads cost more than a
> 2001 Celica's yet the Celica outbrakes the Prelude. Call both dealers
> for the timing belt and water pump prices too. Toyota lists platinum
> plugs for $10. Honda lists them for $16. Toyota even lists their
> iridium plugs for $12. Two Honda wiper refills run for about $14. At
> Toyota, they cost about $9.


I'll vouch for that! As the other poster shold know, Honda's repair prices
are horrible compared to Toyota. Thank God they don't break often! We had
my Corolla and an Accord, and they both needed a similar service, eithr
timing belt or brakes, and I almost hit the deck when the Honda dealer
gave me an estimate! Holy Crap!

>
> Serviceability isn't as good either. Take a 2004 RAV4 versus the 2004
> CRV. In the RAV4, you can easily replace the A/C filter yourself. In
> the CRV, dash pieces have to be taken apart which results in people
> bringing them in to a service shop. On your Camry and Accord, try
> replacing the distributor rotor. In the Camry, you simply pull out
> the rotor and push the new one in. In the Accord, you'd have to
> remove the screw on the side which necessitates for you to keep
> cranking the engine until the screw is accessible from certain holes.


Accord. 2 fuel filters. Good idea, but the rear one was tucked where you
had to remove the tire and something else to get to it!

>
> It's great that you've had good experiences with both brands. I
> believe when you say you've had less problems with your Accord. Just
> keep in mind, most people have experiences less problems overall with
> Toyota than Honda.


They actuall ran neck-and-neck in my case; that is, not very much
maintenance on *either* of them!

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Old 03 Feb 2005, 11:03 pm   #9 (permalink)
Viperkiller
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Default Re: world's best auto manufacturer

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 02:24:56 GMT, hachiroku <levin@ae86.gts> wrote:


>
>>
>> It's great that you've had good experiences with both brands. I
>> believe when you say you've had less problems with your Accord. Just
>> keep in mind, most people have experiences less problems overall with
>> Toyota than Honda.

>
>They actuall ran neck-and-neck in my case; that is, not very much
>maintenance on *either* of them!


I'm glad that you agreed with the other 2 points.

As for this last one, it's good that you've had just as good an
experience with both brands. Long-term reliability records though
don't agree. Even my personal experience has been different from
yours. So if you had better experience with older Honda's, that's
great. I need your luck with them. Not that my experience was
negative by all means. I just have a few more little problems as they
got close to 180k miles.
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Old 07 Feb 2005, 01:28 am   #10 (permalink)
kiselink@mindspring.com
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Default Re: world's best auto manufacturer


>Total company long-term reliability records don't support what you are
>saying. In your singular experience, your point-of-view is
>understandable. If you look at Consumer Reports and J.D. Power
>surverys, Toyotas have been the best.


Funny how the public doesn't agree as demonstrated by the percentage
price depreciation of used cars. Funny too is a quick visit at the JD
Power site doesn't support your position when viewed under midterm and
longterm ratings.

>Also consider, Honda parts prices are more expensive too. Take brake
>pads for example. A 2001 Prelude's front brake pads cost more than a
>2001 Celica's yet the Celica outbrakes the Prelude. Call both dealers
>for the timing belt and water pump prices too. Toyota lists platinum
>plugs for $10. Honda lists them for $16. Toyota even lists their
>iridium plugs for $12. Two Honda wiper refills run for about $14. At
>Toyota, they cost about $9.


Gosh......yep.....I always buy my plugs and wipers at the dealers.
Forget that its just a name stamped on the genuine Honda / Toyota part
is actually just manufactured by leading parts manufactured which are
widely available at significantly reduced prices. I am surprised you
don't mention buying genuine Honda and Toyota motor oil too!

>Serviceability isn't as good either. Take a 2004 RAV4 versus the 2004
>CRV. In the RAV4, you can easily replace the A/C filter yourself. In
>the CRV, dash pieces have to be taken apart which results in people
>bringing them in to a service shop. On your Camry and Accord, try
>replacing the distributor rotor. In the Camry, you simply pull out
>the rotor and push the new one in. In the Accord, you'd have to
>remove the screw on the side which necessitates for you to keep
>cranking the engine until the screw is accessible from certain holes.


Neither the CRV and RAV4 are core products of Honda's and Toyota's.
If you want to compare apples to apples, look at the heavy sellers
which have sold year after year. Celica/Camry and Civic/Accord are
examples of cars which are sold in numbers of much greater magnitude
than CRV and RAV4 which are just market niche players.

The core products is where a corporation can afford the people and
systems to detect problems, incorporate fixes into future vehicles,
and develope new technology. This is consequential to the fact that
auto manufacturing is a capital intensive business. Consider the
engineering staff for a core product. The cost of the addition of one
more engineer staff is averaged over the vehicles manufactured. The
vehicle's profitablity is miniscully effected. Contrast that to a low
manufactured vehicle - say by an order of 10. So now that engineer is
eating into profitabilty by a factor of 10.

>It's great that you've had good experiences with both brands. I
>believe when you say you've had less problems with your Accord. Just
>keep in mind, most people have experiences less problems overall with
>Toyota than Honda.


I suppose you might be suggesting that the average number of problems
over makes of vehicles is superior in Toyota over Honda. Thats
basically an arithemetic metric. But from that statistic, you cannot
conclude that most people have had less problems. You need to perform
a weighted average in which case you get a different result.

Its sort of like how the news services watch the Dow Jones average
which is a garbage market indicator. Instead they should look at the
S&P 500.



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