89 Camry - Oil Light

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Old 16 Apr 2005, 06:36 pm   #1 (permalink)
Factor
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Default 89 Camry - Oil Light

My 89 Camry seems to have thrown a connecting rod the other day, I'm going
to look inside to see what exactly is wrong and how bad it is, and I'm
wondering why it might have failed in the first place (it only has 205k km
on it).

As long as I can remember noticing it, it seems the oil light would stay on
for 2 or 3 seconds after I started the
car, then go off and not come on again. I assumed thought that was normal
as the pressure built up (though looking into it the light seems to go off
at 4.3 psi or so). Is the light staying on at all a sign of trouble???

Thanks


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Old 20 Apr 2005, 08:15 pm   #2 (permalink)
Factor
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Default Re: 89 Camry - Minor update

I was all primed to work on isolating the problem, but now it won't start.
It turns and turns but doesn't give a sign of taking at all (luckily I
brought the highest capacity battery that would fit last winter). It
getting fuel and there's a spark on at least one plug, so this might be good
news for me (given the noise it was making before).

I'm wondering if it could be a timing belt tensioner, throwing the timing
off so bad it won't start??? That could explaiin the oil pressure too,
since the same belt drives the pump. I need to take off a tricky engine
mount to get too it, and it was rainy and almost dark so I'll get into it on
the weekend. Ofc ourse, maybe I should find a timing light...

Question: When I first went to start it, I unplugged one spark plug. Thius
wouldn't damage anything would it??? I assume no since I got a spark when i
checked it.



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Old 21 Apr 2005, 10:23 am   #3 (permalink)
Jason James
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Default Re: 89 Camry - Minor update


"Factor" <factor99@altern.org> wrote in message
news:wfOdnan5nLdUY_vfRVn-gA@golden.net...
> I was all primed to work on isolating the problem, but now it won't start.
> It turns and turns but doesn't give a sign of taking at all (luckily I
> brought the highest capacity battery that would fit last winter). It
> getting fuel and there's a spark on at least one plug, so this might be

good
> news for me (given the noise it was making before).
>
> I'm wondering if it could be a timing belt tensioner, throwing the timing
> off so bad it won't start???



If the fault is indeed a broken tensioner spring, its possible the cam
timing has jumped due belt slippage. In this case also, some teeth maybe
damaged on the belt.

Firstly, Id confirm there is still spark ,..get a helper to hold a well
insulated screwdriver up into the plug-boot while holding the handle (of
s/driver) so its shaft is about 1/4" gap to the engine block. Then crank the
engine. There should be a healthy blue spark.

At this stage a battery charge on low current overnight would help (make
sure one battery post is disconnected from its cable-clamp,..tie the clamp
so it wont touch the post accidently)

If still nogo after confirming spark,...confirm the distributor rotor is
turning while the engin eis cranked. Failure to do this, indicates belt
problems. If the dissy does turn,..you'll need to check the basics ie
ignition timing.
If you have no manual and you think the ig timing needs checking,..post
back.


That could explaiin the oil pressure too,
> since the same belt drives the pump. I need to take off a tricky engine
> mount to get too it, and it was rainy and almost dark so I'll get into it

on
> the weekend. Ofc ourse, maybe I should find a timing light...
>
> Question: When I first went to start it, I unplugged one spark plug.

Thius
> wouldn't damage anything would it??? I assume no since I got a spark when

i
> checked it.

If one lead was not sparking to earth thru a plug, the spark can jump to ea
rth via the inside of the distributor cap and in rare cases cause damage to
the coil by arcing thru coil insulation,..but this not something one would
expect tho. If the spark is present, then it mustbe something else.

Good luck

Jason


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Old 21 Apr 2005, 11:45 am   #4 (permalink)
factor99@gmail.com
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Default Re: 89 Camry - Minor update

The timing belt is turning, as I could see by prying back the cover a
bit, but I'm remember now I was wondering if it would be hard to turn
the motor with a ratchet, and it turned so easliy (there was a but of
comression though, and I could hear the air squeezing out now and
then).

Given that I have fuel and a spark, and the starter spins the engine so
easily, I'm thinking it must be a compression problem, since I didn't
do anything inside the engine, and this car starts in about 3 second in
-30 C after sitting all week...

If it is just a tensioner problem so this is great news, just a pulley
or two and maybe a belt - ok,they are only about an inch and a half
from the wheel well, but that just makes if more interesting

Thanks agian for the advice.

Jason James wrote:
> "Factor" <factor99@altern.org> wrote in message
> news:wfOdnan5nLdUY_vfRVn-gA@golden.net...
> > I was all primed to work on isolating the problem, but now it won't

start.
> > It turns and turns but doesn't give a sign of taking at all

(luckily I
> > brought the highest capacity battery that would fit last winter).

It
> > getting fuel and there's a spark on at least one plug, so this

might be
> good
> > news for me (given the noise it was making before).
> >
> > I'm wondering if it could be a timing belt tensioner, throwing the

timing
> > off so bad it won't start???

>
>
> If the fault is indeed a broken tensioner spring, its possible the

cam
> timing has jumped due belt slippage. In this case also, some teeth

maybe
> damaged on the belt.
>
> Firstly, Id confirm there is still spark ,..get a helper to hold a

well
> insulated screwdriver up into the plug-boot while holding the handle

(of
> s/driver) so its shaft is about 1/4" gap to the engine block. Then

crank the
> engine. There should be a healthy blue spark.
>
> At this stage a battery charge on low current overnight would help

(make
> sure one battery post is disconnected from its cable-clamp,..tie the

clamp
> so it wont touch the post accidently)
>
> If still nogo after confirming spark,...confirm the distributor rotor

is
> turning while the engin eis cranked. Failure to do this, indicates

belt
> problems. If the dissy does turn,..you'll need to check the basics ie
> ignition timing.
> If you have no manual and you think the ig timing needs

checking,..post
> back.
>
>
> That could explaiin the oil pressure too,
> > since the same belt drives the pump. I need to take off a tricky

engine
> > mount to get too it, and it was rainy and almost dark so I'll get

into it
> on
> > the weekend. Ofc ourse, maybe I should find a timing light...
> >
> > Question: When I first went to start it, I unplugged one spark

plug.
> Thius
> > wouldn't damage anything would it??? I assume no since I got a

spark when
> i
> > checked it.

> If one lead was not sparking to earth thru a plug, the spark can

jump to ea
> rth via the inside of the distributor cap and in rare cases cause

damage to
> the coil by arcing thru coil insulation,..but this not something one

would
> expect tho. If the spark is present, then it mustbe something else.
>
> Good luck
>
> Jason


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Old 21 Apr 2005, 01:51 pm   #5 (permalink)
Jason James
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Default Re: 89 Camry - Minor update


<factor99@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1114101950.071341.17160@f14g2000cwb.googlegro ups.com...
> The timing belt is turning, as I could see by prying back the cover a
> bit, but I'm remember now I was wondering if it would be hard to turn
> the motor with a ratchet, and it turned so easliy (there was a but of
> comression though, and I could hear the air squeezing out now and
> then).


That compression leaking sound is normal during slow cranking. If you have a
short (8" or so) ratchet handle, I'd expect the engine would be fairly
difficult to turn. One test you can do here is to crank the engine and
listen for any speeding-up of the starter in a periodic way This will put
all 4 cylinders thru their compression phase. If one cylinder has damaged
valves (bent stems, broken off valve head or broken valve spring,..all can
create noise during running) then your starters cranking effort (and
therefore speed) will get much easier during that cylinders compression
cycle (this will occur during one of the 4 comp cycles encountered).

An early warning that an engine is losing compression on one cylinder is to
listen to the starter's whine. If it is constant,..all cyls are the
same,..if it has a short flare in revs,..there is a cylinder getting
tired,..the higher the flare in revs, the lower the compression of the cyl
in question. Also, if there is a real bad bearing or broken piston,..you
*may* even hear the noise you are trying to hunt down, only more subdued of
course as there is little load on the engine internals while being cranked
compared to making power once running and especially on the road .

> Given that I have fuel and a spark, and the starter spins the engine so
> easily, I'm thinking it must be a compression problem, since I didn't
> do anything inside the engine, and this car starts in about 3 second in
> -30 C after sitting all week...


Not likely you would suddenly lose compression so much as for the engine to
fail to start. You said (I think) the dissy is turning? That confirms the
intake cam is also turning,...the exhaust cam is driven off the intake cam
by a gearset.

As an aside,..maybe this engine has dropped a valve? Was it idling rough
while it was noisy?

> If it is just a tensioner problem so this is great news, just a pulley
> or two and maybe a belt - ok,they are only about an inch and a half
> from the wheel well, but that just makes if more interesting


You really need a w/shop manual to effectively remove the belt cover.
However, here is an excellent description provided by Daniel on how, amongst
other things, to get to the belt:

news:c5ef7dc0.0407170717.4465b6ae@posting.google.c om...

Jason



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Old 21 Apr 2005, 03:19 pm   #6 (permalink)
factor99@gmail.com
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Default Re: 89 Camry - Minor update

I used a normal 1/2 ratchet and it was simple to turn, it just had a
short section where it would bouce back a bit avery few turns. The
started can a very even constant whine. It was so smooth at first I
thought it wasn't engaging the flywheel...another indication of low/no
compression.

With the problem first occured, it didn't seem so bad and I kept
driving (20 km down the highway), no oil light and it was like normal.
By the time I cam off it was noisy, but still ran fine.

The next day I started it up, but only for a few seconds as the noise
was really loud and the oil light stayed on. The engine stuttered
too... since it just spins easily now I wonder it slipped a bit each
time I turned it off.

Anyway, the talk is moot I just need to look at it (but don't have time
until it rains on Saturday...)

I've got the factory manual for at 88, so I'm in good shape there. The
engine mount is different in the 89, but if I can't figure that out I
should leave the hood shut!

Thanks for that link, it's good to hear from someone who's actually
done it. I have an good impact wrench, can that generaly take off a
crankshaft pully bolt without turning the engine ??

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Old 25 Apr 2005, 08:12 pm   #7 (permalink)
Factor
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Default Re: 89 Camry - Problem found!

I took the timing cover off today, the oil pump drive gear was missing 3/4
of its width 1/3 of the way around, and the middle was broken, so spun on
the pump shaft... Still don't know why it made such a racket, but there are
millions of metal filings under the timing cover...

The timing was off by close to a 1/4 turn, just as well since the oil pump
wouldn't be turning if the engine started.

Getting the crankshaft bolt off was no problem with the impact wrench, even
with next to no compression in the engine.

Now I just have to clean it up (I'm thinking a strong magnet), and track
down a new gear.


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Old 26 Apr 2005, 10:41 am   #8 (permalink)
Jason James
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Default Re: 89 Camry - Problem found!


"Factor" <factor99@altern.org> wrote in message
news:dNKdnWTOPtnjCPDfRVn-gw@golden.net...
> I took the timing cover off today, the oil pump drive gear was missing 3/4
> of its width 1/3 of the way around, and the middle was broken, so spun on
> the pump shaft... Still don't know why it made such a racket, but there

are
> millions of metal filings under the timing cover...
>
> The timing was off by close to a 1/4 turn, just as well since the oil pump
> wouldn't be turning if the engine started.
>
> Getting the crankshaft bolt off was no problem with the impact wrench,

even
> with next to no compression in the engine.
>
> Now I just have to clean it up (I'm thinking a strong magnet), and track
> down a new gear.



Good grief,...hope the engine is not damaged too much,..if the engine
oil-light did eventually go out, its possible some of the damage which an
engine can sustain with low oil-pressure has been avoided. Once the oil-pump
pulley exited all together, the belt tension would have dropped off causing
the cam-timing and hence ignition timing to go so far out the engine
stopped,...cross your fingers.

Good luck

Jason


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Old 01 May 2005, 07:42 pm   #9 (permalink)
Factor
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Default Re: 89 Camry - on the road agian

Replaced the oil pulley, put it back together and now it runs great!

Thanks for all the help.

"Jason James" <associate@dodo.comzapspam.au> wrote in message
news:d4ln6g$s6v$1@domitilla.aioe.org...
>
> "Factor" <factor99@altern.org> wrote in message
> news:dNKdnWTOPtnjCPDfRVn-gw@golden.net...
>> I took the timing cover off today, the oil pump drive gear was missing
>> 3/4
>> of its width 1/3 of the way around, and the middle was broken, so spun on
>> the pump shaft... Still don't know why it made such a racket, but there

> are
>> millions of metal filings under the timing cover...
>>
>> The timing was off by close to a 1/4 turn, just as well since the oil
>> pump
>> wouldn't be turning if the engine started.
>>
>> Getting the crankshaft bolt off was no problem with the impact wrench,

> even
>> with next to no compression in the engine.
>>
>> Now I just have to clean it up (I'm thinking a strong magnet), and track
>> down a new gear.

>
>
> Good grief,...hope the engine is not damaged too much,..if the engine
> oil-light did eventually go out, its possible some of the damage which an
> engine can sustain with low oil-pressure has been avoided. Once the
> oil-pump
> pulley exited all together, the belt tension would have dropped off
> causing
> the cam-timing and hence ignition timing to go so far out the engine
> stopped,...cross your fingers.
>
> Good luck
>
> Jason
>
>



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