Oil change interval with Mobil 1 oil & filter

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Old 03 Aug 2005, 04:20 pm   #1 (permalink)
aqlumen@gmail.com
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Default Oil change interval with Mobil 1 oil & filter

1999 Camry
2.2L 4cyl
5-speed
A/C
55k miles

The August issue of Consumer Reports (page 49) mentions that 1997-2001
Toyota 2.2L 4cyl & 3.0L V6 engines are susceptible to sludge buildup,
with 3400 sludge complaints registered through 2002 (the article says
Toyota hasn't provided any newer data). CR mentions that even though a
sludge problem appears to exist, it goes on to say that it hasn't
affected the reliability ratings of vehicles with these engines. CR
recommends using synthetic oils or changing oil according to the
manual's extreme use schedule to avoid sludging.

I purchased my Camry with about 33K miles. Initially I had used a
conventional 5W-30 oil (Havoline) then switched to Castrol Syntec at
about 40k miles. At 45k miles I switched to Mobil 1 10W-30 oil & Mobil
1 filter. The engine runs cooler and quieter with 10W-30. I replaced
the air filter about 5k miles ago. I average about 30-32 mpg on the
highway, even with the AC on (no kidding).

The oil darkens a bit over time (few months) but remains quite
translucent. This may sound strange, but I always sniff the oil cap
whenever I remove it to try and detect a burnt odor. I have a good nose
for burnt oil since I've owned over 20 cars in 20 years and have used
all types of oils and filters.

With CR's comments in mind, I'm wondering if I should change my Mobil 1
oil & filter every 7500 or 5000 miles.

Any comments?

Also, anyone have any experience using synthetic gear lube in a Toyota
manual trans?

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Old 03 Aug 2005, 05:19 pm   #2 (permalink)
davidj92
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Default Re: Oil change interval with Mobil 1 oil & filter

aqlumen@gmail.com wrote:
> 1999 Camry
> 2.2L 4cyl
> 5-speed
> A/C
> 55k miles


snip

> With CR's comments in mind, I'm wondering if I should change my Mobil
> 1 oil & filter every 7500 or 5000 miles.
>
> Any comments?


Base this on your driving habits. If you do a lot of short trips, heavy
hauling and etc. then use the shorter interval. If most of your driving is
highway, you don't haul a lot and are an easy driver then go for the longer
interval. Also, with a full sythetic you can extend your interval. Some
claim double while some claim you can go 25k. I use full synth. and extend
my interval appx 50% rather than double it. As to the 25k I would say don't
subscribe to that theory.

> Also, anyone have any experience using synthetic gear lube in a Toyota
> manual trans?


I use full sythetic gear lube in the differential of my Toyota truck as well
as the trans on my Harley. Noticable differences on the Harley were I don't
have to hunt for neutral like I did when it had dino lube, it shifts a lot
easier and doesn't clunk.
HTH, davidj92


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Old 03 Aug 2005, 06:38 pm   #3 (permalink)
johngdole@hotmail.com
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Default Re: Oil change interval with Mobil 1 oil & filter

The problem with VW (happened shortly after the Toyota sludge problem)
is a change to use synthetic oil of certain specification something
about a VW 505.0 or 527.55 (?) standard. Not all synthetics met the VW
requirement BTW!

VW's Audi division also increased the size of the oil filter and
capacity I think 3.x quarts to something like 4.5 quarts. (can't
remember for sure but check for yourself)

For this problem VW recommends 5000 miles or 6 months and that's using
synthetics.

So oil is definitely getting cooked on these sludge makers. Synthetics
can withstand the temperatures better but the fundamental design
problems are still there. Going to synthetics is only a "patch" fix.
Toyota increased engine fluid pathways on later productions to help
lessen the problem. Don't know what VW did.

Camry has smaller filter and oil capacity, so I suppose you'd want to
change sooner than 5000/6mo.



http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=100717

Oil sludge woes plague VW; automaker to pay for engine repairs, extend
warranties
RALPH KISIEL | Automotive News
Posted Date: 8/30/04

DETROIT - In the latest example of Volkswagen of America Inc.'s quality
woes, the automaker is warning 426,000 VW Passat and Audi A4 owners of
an engine oil sludge problem.
Affected are 1.8-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engines on 1998 to
2004 Passats and 1997 to 2004 A4s. VW won't say how many engines have
been replaced or repaired, or what it is spending to fix the problem.

Owners began receiving letters from VWoA this month. Remedies range
from extending warranties to covering repair costs. That includes
replacing engines.

Sludge buildup causes engine performance to deteriorate. In extreme
cases, sludge can cause engines to seize.

The timing couldn't be worse. VW Division has old products, and sales
are down 11.5 percent for the first seven months compared with the
year-ago period. And it has only been a year since VW voluntarily
recalled more than 500,000 vehicles because of faulty engine ignition
coils.

VW is not alone in grappling with engine oil sludge complaints. Last
week the Center for Auto Safety in Washington demanded that the
Chrysler group fix sludge problems and extend warranties on 2.7-liter
V-6 engines in its 1998 to 2002 vehicles.

Confirming that VW has received "numerous reports of problems," VWoA
spokesman Tony Fouladpour said that VW is extending factory warranties
from five years to eight years. Warranties are transferable.

Changes for '05

VW is requiring its dealers to use synthetic oil and a larger oil
filter in the 2005 Passat and A4. Some 2005 A4s are in dealerships. The
2005 Passat will arrive in October.

A National Highway Traffic Safety Administration source said the agency
has had 12 to 15 sludge complaints for 2000 to 2004 Passats and A4s.
One complaint was about an engine seizure.

VWoA will pay the cost of replacing an engine. For example, an
independent repair shop in Tennessee that just replaced a
sludge-damaged engine in a 1999 Passat charged the customer $2,500. Of
that, $1,400 was for labor. The customer would be eligible for a
reimbursement if he can show that he was having the oil changed as
recommended.

VW dealers are seeing the problem mostly with owners who don't follow
the recommended oil change intervals, said Gene Langan, of Gene Langan
Volkswagen Inc. in Glastonbury, Conn.

"I've seen a few cases," he said. "It seems to happen mostly when we
can't verify oil change history, when people don't do them for 20,000
miles. I think that this is a problem that is pretty broad in the
industry right now."

VW owners will pay more for an oil change with synthetic oil, Langan
said. An oil change with regular oil costs about $30, he said. It's
about $65 with synthetic oil.

In its letter to Passat and A4 owners, VW says that it will cover
necessary engine repairs if oil sludge causes a problem and the vehicle
owner could provide proof of oil changes. Oil changes would have to be
according to VW-recommended maintenance schedules. VW recommends that
oil be changed at 5,000 miles or six months.

How it occurs

The letter states that engine oil sludge occurs when old, dirty engine
oil thickens and cannot continue to provide correct lubrication. It
says the condition occurs primarily when the engine is operated at oil
change intervals beyond those prescribed in the owner's manual.

Fouladpour said VW decided to contact owners after studying the oil
sludge problem that Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc. faced two years ago.

Toyota in April 2002 notified 3.3 million owners of 1997 to 2002 Toyota
and Lexus vehicles with certain V-6 and four-cylinder engines that it
would pay for sludge-related repairs for eight years from date of
purchase. At the time, Toyota said that it had received about 3,400
sludge-related complaints.

"We looked at that and learned from their experience," Fouladpour said.

VW builds most of its 1.8 T engines at its Gyor, Hungary, engine plant.

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Old 03 Aug 2005, 07:43 pm   #4 (permalink)
Curtis Newton
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Default Re: Oil change interval with Mobil 1 oil & filter

On 3 Aug 2005 14:20:28 -0700, "aqlumen@gmail.com" <aqlumen@gmail.com>
wrote:

>1999 Camry
>2.2L 4cyl
>5-speed
>A/C
>55k miles
>
>The August issue of Consumer Reports (page 49) mentions that 1997-2001
>Toyota 2.2L 4cyl & 3.0L V6 engines are susceptible to sludge buildup,
>with 3400 sludge complaints registered through 2002 (the article says
>Toyota hasn't provided any newer data). CR mentions that even though a
>sludge problem appears to exist, it goes on to say that it hasn't
>affected the reliability ratings of vehicles with these engines. CR
>recommends using synthetic oils or changing oil according to the
>manual's extreme use schedule to avoid sludging.
>
>I purchased my Camry with about 33K miles. Initially I had used a
>conventional 5W-30 oil (Havoline) then switched to Castrol Syntec at
>about 40k miles. At 45k miles I switched to Mobil 1 10W-30 oil & Mobil
>1 filter. The engine runs cooler and quieter with 10W-30. I replaced
>the air filter about 5k miles ago. I average about 30-32 mpg on the
>highway, even with the AC on (no kidding).
>
>The oil darkens a bit over time (few months) but remains quite
>translucent. This may sound strange, but I always sniff the oil cap
>whenever I remove it to try and detect a burnt odor. I have a good nose
>for burnt oil since I've owned over 20 cars in 20 years and have used
>all types of oils and filters.
>
>With CR's comments in mind, I'm wondering if I should change my Mobil 1
>oil & filter every 7500 or 5000 miles.
>
>Any comments?
>



I would put in the Mobil 1 EP (the new 15,000 mile oil) and run an
interval to 5,000 miles and send off a sample to Blackstone labs
(http://www.blackstone-labs.com/) and get it tested. They will send
you a free sample kit.

It is $20 or to get the TBN tested, it is $30. This will give you a
good idea of how the oil is doing. They will also tell you/recommend
an interval based upon the oil's condition.

You can also look at other Toyota's used oil reports at
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com

Good luck.

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Old 03 Aug 2005, 08:03 pm   #5 (permalink)
Mark A
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Default Re: Oil change interval with Mobil 1 oil & filter

<aqlumen@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123104028.863125.67580@f14g2000cwb.googlegro ups.com...
> 1999 Camry
> 2.2L 4cyl
> 5-speed
> A/C
> 55k miles
>
> The August issue of Consumer Reports (page 49) mentions that 1997-2001
> Toyota 2.2L 4cyl & 3.0L V6 engines are susceptible to sludge buildup,
> with 3400 sludge complaints registered through 2002 (the article says
> Toyota hasn't provided any newer data). CR mentions that even though a
> sludge problem appears to exist, it goes on to say that it hasn't
> affected the reliability ratings of vehicles with these engines. CR
> recommends using synthetic oils or changing oil according to the
> manual's extreme use schedule to avoid sludging.
>
> I purchased my Camry with about 33K miles. Initially I had used a
> conventional 5W-30 oil (Havoline) then switched to Castrol Syntec at
> about 40k miles. At 45k miles I switched to Mobil 1 10W-30 oil & Mobil
> 1 filter. The engine runs cooler and quieter with 10W-30. I replaced
> the air filter about 5k miles ago. I average about 30-32 mpg on the
> highway, even with the AC on (no kidding).
>
> The oil darkens a bit over time (few months) but remains quite
> translucent. This may sound strange, but I always sniff the oil cap
> whenever I remove it to try and detect a burnt odor. I have a good nose
> for burnt oil since I've owned over 20 cars in 20 years and have used
> all types of oils and filters.
>
> With CR's comments in mind, I'm wondering if I should change my Mobil 1
> oil & filter every 7500 or 5000 miles.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Also, anyone have any experience using synthetic gear lube in a Toyota
> manual trans?
>


Yes, I have a few "comments:"

1. Just because 3400 people registered sludge reports does not necessarily
mean that 3400 cars had sludge. Also keep in mind that Toyota sold over a
half million vehicles in the US each year with the affected engines (about
400,000 Camry's alone). Between 1997 and 2001 that adds up to about 2.5
million vehicles with those engines (Toyota sells minivans and other
vehicles with the same engine as Camry).

2. You are getting ripped off by buying Castrol Syntec. It is not a real
synthetic. Get Mobil 1.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=3631



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Old 04 Aug 2005, 05:23 am   #6 (permalink)
davidj92
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Default Re: Oil change interval with Mobil 1 oil & filter

johngdole@hotmail.com wrote:
> The problem with VW (happened shortly after the Toyota sludge problem)
> is a change to use synthetic oil of certain specification something
> about a VW 505.0 or 527.55 (?) standard. Not all synthetics met the VW
> requirement BTW!
>
> VW's Audi division also increased the size of the oil filter and
> capacity I think 3.x quarts to something like 4.5 quarts. (can't
> remember for sure but check for yourself)
>
> For this problem VW recommends 5000 miles or 6 months and that's using
> synthetics.


VW, like Toyota, maintains sludge is caused by owners not changing oil at
intervals prescribed or not even in 20,000 miles according to some of their
sources.

> So oil is definitely getting cooked on these sludge makers.


Cooked oil and sludge are two different symptoms from two seperate causes.

Synthetics
> can withstand the temperatures better but the fundamental design
> problems are still there. Going to synthetics is only a "patch" fix.


You are correct, an owner still has to get off their lazy ass and change
their oil in a prescribed manner.

> Toyota increased engine fluid pathways on later productions to help
> lessen the problem.


Which problem? You seem to be confused about oil cooking and sludge.

Don't know what VW did.
>


It's in the reading you posted a link to. Did you even read it before you
posted it?

> Camry has smaller filter and oil capacity, so I suppose you'd want to
> change sooner than 5000/6mo.
>


Does the owner's manual say this? How about any of your expert sources?
Did you read any of the article? How about the parts where VW and Toyota
both maintain the sludge problem is caused by owner's not changing their
oil? How about the small number of complaints compared to the large number
of sales? Does this describe a known design problem to you?
And then you try to twist a good-will offer by both these companies into an
admission of some kind. Wasn't, isn't and never will be an admission.

> http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=100717
>


davidj92


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Old 04 Aug 2005, 10:16 am   #7 (permalink)
Daniel
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Default Re: Oil change interval with Mobil 1 oil & filter

If you're running Mobil 1 fully synthetic 10w30 and change at 5,000
mile intervals, you will be fine under any conditions.
A side benefit is that it couldn't be easier to track on the odometer.

If you're not running short trips, or in a cold humid climate, the
7,500 should be OK too, but I prefer the 5,000 because there is
absolutely no question that your engine is staying pristine and clean
internally. (predicated on the Mobil 1 full synthetic 10w30)

The Mobil 1 10w30 full synthetic has higher film strength, greater
resistance to changes in viscosity over time, and better resistance to
degradation under higher engine operating temperatures.

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Old 07 Aug 2005, 08:44 am   #8 (permalink)
Curious
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Default Re: Oil change interval with Mobil 1 oil & filter


<aqlumen@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123104028.863125.67580@f14g2000cwb.googlegro ups.com...
> 1999 Camry
> 2.2L 4cyl
> 5-speed
> A/C
> 55k miles
>
> The August issue of Consumer Reports (page 49) mentions that 1997-2001
> Toyota 2.2L 4cyl & 3.0L V6 engines are susceptible to sludge buildup,
> with 3400 sludge complaints registered through 2002 (the article says
> Toyota hasn't provided any newer data). CR mentions that even though a
> sludge problem appears to exist, it goes on to say that it hasn't
> affected the reliability ratings of vehicles with these engines. CR
> recommends using synthetic oils or changing oil according to the
> manual's extreme use schedule to avoid sludging.
>
> I purchased my Camry with about 33K miles. Initially I had used a
> conventional 5W-30 oil (Havoline) then switched to Castrol Syntec at
> about 40k miles. At 45k miles I switched to Mobil 1 10W-30 oil & Mobil
> 1 filter. The engine runs cooler and quieter with 10W-30. I replaced
> the air filter about 5k miles ago. I average about 30-32 mpg on the
> highway, even with the AC on (no kidding).
>
> The oil darkens a bit over time (few months) but remains quite
> translucent. This may sound strange, but I always sniff the oil cap
> whenever I remove it to try and detect a burnt odor. I have a good nose
> for burnt oil since I've owned over 20 cars in 20 years and have used
> all types of oils and filters.
>
> With CR's comments in mind, I'm wondering if I should change my Mobil 1
> oil & filter every 7500 or 5000 miles.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Also, anyone have any experience using synthetic gear lube in a Toyota
> manual trans?


Heres my take on it, setting aside all the thoughts of David on how its the
owners fault that this ONE particular vehical, brand and year are having
sludging problems.

I am using 100% synthetic oil. I do not believe Mobil 1 I 100% synthetic.

I an using the best rated Amsoil 2000 which can have an extended oil change
to 25,000 miles with my driving condtions. This should save me close to $60
a year in oil changes over the 3000 mile petroleum changes.

I'm changing the oil fitler with an Amsoil oil filter every 12,000 miles.

I'm changing the transmission oil with 100% Amsoil synthetic which has much
better numbers than any petroleum product

My new 2005 Camry with 5000 miles on it will never see petroleum products
again in its engine and transmission.

Too many people have reported problems with petroleum products being used, I
think using synthetics is a wise and educated choice over petroleum. Only a
person who likes to gamble would even think of using petroleum when Toyota
itself changed their views and stated to use petrolem.

Just my thoughts of course.


>



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Old 07 Aug 2005, 02:07 pm   #9 (permalink)
Curtis Newton
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Default Re: Oil change interval with Mobil 1 oil & filter

On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 09:44:59 -0400, "Curious" <Curios@tellme.com>
wrote:

>
>I am using 100% synthetic oil. I do not believe Mobil 1 I 100% synthetic.
>



Mobil says differently. This is from their FAQ:

Both Mobil 1 and Mobil 1 Extended Performance are fully synthetic
motor oils for automotive engines. They are made from a combination of
advanced, high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs),
plus a unique proprietary package of additives.

Also, I believe Amsoil is an excellent oil, but to call Mobil 1 a not
100% synthetic is simply not true.

If you were talking about Castrol, that would be true (except for
their 0W30 Made in Germany product, and possibly their 5W40 Made in
Belgium product).



>I an using the best rated Amsoil 2000 which can have an extended oil change
>to 25,000 miles with my driving condtions. This should save me close to $60
>a year in oil changes over the 3000 mile petroleum changes.
>
>I'm changing the oil fitler with an Amsoil oil filter every 12,000 miles.
>



I also use synthetic fluids, but there is nothing wrong with petroleum
products.

An example: Our 1988 Camry has over 305,000 miles on it and it has
seen a steady diet of Pennzoil (conventional) and Toyota OEM filters
with changes every 3-4,000 miles since about 55,000 miles when we
purchased it in 1990.
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Old 08 Aug 2005, 05:16 am   #10 (permalink)
davidj92
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Default Re: Oil change interval with Mobil 1 oil & filter

Curious wrote:
snip

> Heres my take on it, setting aside all the thoughts of David on how
> its the owners fault that this ONE particular vehical, brand and year
> are having sludging problems.
>

snip

What is it with you? You can't take the heat of real facts so you snipe me
in other posts?
You continue to ignore 1/10% of all the vehicles Toyota sold have an
alledged sludge problem, plus all the other facts related to this issue that
dispute all your allegations. Then want people to pay attention to you when
you try to tell them which oil is good, better and best?
davidj92


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