Oil Change Intervails

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Old 18 Aug 2005, 07:05 am   #1 (permalink)
justinm930
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Default Oil Change Intervails

FYI: I work on cars for a living. About 50% of my business is oil changes.
Many customers go between 4k and 5k miles untill they change the engine
oil. I've seen mobil one with good fram filters after 4k and it looks
like regular crap oil with a generic filter. While synthetic oil is
better in terms of its heat resistance properties and its ability to run
clean at extended intervails (3500 to 4000 mi MAX) you still should change
your oil every 3 months or 3,000 miles which ever comes first.

I mean think about it. Lets take regular ol' valvoline 5w30. This oil
has gone pretty much unchanged for quite some time. Now lets take a
regular 3387A fram sure grip oil filter. Again unchanged for quite some
time.

Now lets say we are going to change the oil on a Pontiac 1998 Grand Prix
3.8L. Again using scenerio's in which the objects invovled have gone
virtually without change for quite some time.

Now suppose when you bought your grand prix back in '98 the book and the
dealer said change the oil every 3mths or 3k mi. Back in '98 that was the
norm. People were satisfied with that standard. But as time rolled by and
people lives became more automated, we got lazy. Now to get to the point:
you just bought an '04 pontiac grand prix 3.8l. You got your reg. val
10w30 with your fram sure grip. Do you really believe all things
considered that you can safely push that oil and filter 5 mths 5,000 miles
and the owners manuals suggest and get the full life out of that motor?
even if you bought mobil 1 15k or whatever they claim it to be, you are
still using plain jane paper filters. Who cares what they put on the box.
A oil filter is paper wrapped in metal. theres know such thing as a 10k
paper oil filter--trust me.

Lets try to get back to atleast making time to doing one thing we might
not want to do. I'm sure if your car broke down due to oil failure or
some type of engine oil neglect, mobil wouldnt say ok here's a new motor.


Changing the oil every 3mo or 3k miles is the single most important
preventitive maintence service that should be executed without question.

but like I said FYI:



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Old 18 Aug 2005, 09:38 am   #2 (permalink)
Nobody Important
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Default Re: Oil Change Intervails

justinm930 wrote:
> you still should change
> your oil every 3 months or 3,000 miles which ever comes first.


This is nonsense that wastes people's time, money and actually damages
the environment. I have been doing used oil analysis at a lab where
they have a gas spectrometer. All wear metals are measured to the nearest
part per million and the total base number of the used oil is also
measured using a procedure blessed by the society of automotive engineers.
The results are a scientific indication of how well the oil is
protecting the engine and how much life is left in the oil.

YMMV, but my 1999 Camry 2.2l can safely go twice your 3000 mile interval
on Mobil 1 5W30, and that's in the winter, in Canada. This is a
scientifically proven fact in my case. In fact, I've just further
extended my drain interval to 10000 kilometres and am waiting on the
analysis results.

BTW, the phrase "quality fram filter" is an oxymoron. There are cheap
ones that are really poor and expensive ones that use snake oil like PTFE.

See bobistheoilguy.com for further science-based information.

Nobody Important
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Old 18 Aug 2005, 09:42 am   #3 (permalink)
Daniel
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Default Re: Oil Change Intervails

What does a Pontiac with Fram filters have to do with Toyota?

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Old 18 Aug 2005, 06:27 pm   #4 (permalink)
zonie
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Default Re: Oil Change Intervails

I too run my about the same as you, 6000 miles. I know of no cars that need
oil change every 3000. I also use Mobil 1 oil and factory filters . Oil in
both Toyotas still drain looking good. Both are over 100,000 miles and
both run perfectly. Scott

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Old 18 Aug 2005, 07:40 pm   #5 (permalink)
justinm930
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Default Re: Oil Change Intervails

Your missing the point. As you drive, your engine oil picks up
contaminants such as dirt and water. The whole reason of having an oil
filter is to FILTER the OIL in the engine as it is recirculated. A 3,000
mile with a 6,000 mile oil such as mobil one is pointless for two reasons:
1. the rubber gasket between the actual filter and oil filter mounting
plate becomes brittle and leaks. 2. after 3,000 miles, the oil filter
loses its filtration capabilities. So whatever dirt that has accumulated
over that time is just circulating in the engine. This is how you get
sludge build up inside the motor.

Do it your way: get a generic filter and run mobil one in your vehicle.
change the oil every 6k or whenever you feel like it. do this for 50k
miles. then remove your valve cover and have a look. you'll see what
stretching oil changes does to a motor.

and as for the "enviorment" lol stop kidding yourself. with all the
traffic in the world i dont think changing the oil sooner to extend the
life of your motor is doing any more damage then actually driving around.


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Old 18 Aug 2005, 08:09 pm   #6 (permalink)
Nobody Important
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Default Re: Oil Change Intervails

> 1. the rubber gasket between the actual filter and oil filter mounting
> plate becomes brittle and leaks.


Nonsense. I've never seen a drop of oil leak from that interface on my
Camry.

> 2. after 3,000 miles, the oil filter
> loses its filtration capabilities. So whatever dirt that has accumulated
> over that time is just circulating in the engine.


Nonsense. If that were true, you would see a precipitous increase in
the particulate count at the lab. At some point, there will be
saturation, but that point is far, far in the future on a filter that's
done only 6000 mi on a healthy engine.

> Do it your way: get a generic filter and run mobil one in your vehicle.
> change the oil every 6k or whenever you feel like it. do this for 50k
> miles. then remove your valve cover and have a look. you'll see what
> stretching oil changes does to a motor.


Actually, I have done this after 117 000 km. It looked like new.

> and as for the "enviorment" lol stop kidding yourself. with all the
> traffic in the world i dont think changing the oil sooner to extend the
> life of your motor is doing any more damage then actually driving around.


Your premise, that changing oil sooner prolongs the life of the motor,
is demonstrably, scientifically, irrefutably false.

Nobody Important
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Old 19 Aug 2005, 06:34 am   #7 (permalink)
justinm930
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Default Re: Oil Change Intervails

Now I know that you have no clue what your talking about. Proper
lubrication of the engine is esstenial to prolonging engine life. Motor
oil lubricates, protects, and cools the moving parts of your engine.

I dont care what test your ran in a lab. I am a mechanic. I see first
hand what happens when people neglect their cars.

It was also understood a long time ago that fluid color is not an accurate
factor when trying to determine how long or how well a fluid is doing its
job. Same goes for antifreeze, differential lubricants, and transmission
fluid. These is the very same reason the government and consumer
protection agencies come down on mechanics and service centers if they
reccomend services soley based on fluild color.

People just need to know this: a Regular Non-Synthectic Motor Oil Used
With a Regular Standard Stock or Aftermarket Oil Filter Will Not Give You
The Protection You Need If You Refuse To Change Your Oil At Intervails Of
3mo/3k mi. It Doesn't Matter What Kind Of Car You Drive, Where You Live or
How Hot Or Cold It Is Outside. The Chemical Properties Of Regular,
Non-Synthectic Oil Will Not Be As Efficient Or Effective If You Extend
Drain Intervails Past 3mo/3k mi. You Don't Have To Be A Scientist Or Work
At A Lab To Know That. Heck Even Ask A Mechanic That Your Buddys With.
Ask Him/Her What Happens When People Negelect Their Engine Oil.

If It Were Up To Nobody Important, You Wouldn't Have To Change Your Ever!
I Hate to Burst Your Bubble Buddy, But Just Because Mobil Put A Shinny New
Sticker On A Bottle Of Oil And Said Go 15,000 miles With It Doesn't Make It
A Smart Thing To Do. If Dove Came Out With A Soap That Said "Wash Once And
You'll Be Clean For A Week!" Would you shower less frequently?

Stop beinf so nieve

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Old 19 Aug 2005, 09:28 am   #8 (permalink)
Jason James
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Default Re: Oil Change Intervails


"justinm930" <justinm930@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:425c5ce74a450deba3eee5a95b5aed3b@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> FYI: I work on cars for a living. About 50% of my business is oil

changes.
> Many customers go between 4k and 5k miles untill they change the engine
> oil. I've seen mobil one with good fram filters after 4k and it looks
> like regular crap oil with a generic filter. While synthetic oil is
> better in terms of its heat resistance properties and its ability to run
> clean at extended intervails (3500 to 4000 mi MAX) you still should change
> your oil every 3 months or 3,000 miles which ever comes first.
>
> I mean think about it. Lets take regular ol' valvoline 5w30. This oil
> has gone pretty much unchanged for quite some time. Now lets take a
> regular 3387A fram sure grip oil filter. Again unchanged for quite some
> time.
>
> Now lets say we are going to change the oil on a Pontiac 1998 Grand Prix
> 3.8L. Again using scenerio's in which the objects invovled have gone
> virtually without change for quite some time.
>
> Now suppose when you bought your grand prix back in '98 the book and the
> dealer said change the oil every 3mths or 3k mi. Back in '98 that was the
> norm. People were satisfied with that standard. But as time rolled by

and
> people lives became more automated, we got lazy. Now to get to the point:
> you just bought an '04 pontiac grand prix 3.8l. You got your reg. val
> 10w30 with your fram sure grip. Do you really believe all things
> considered that you can safely push that oil and filter 5 mths 5,000 miles
> and the owners manuals suggest and get the full life out of that motor?
> even if you bought mobil 1 15k or whatever they claim it to be, you are
> still using plain jane paper filters. Who cares what they put on the box.
> A oil filter is paper wrapped in metal. theres know such thing as a 10k
> paper oil filter--trust me.
>
> Lets try to get back to atleast making time to doing one thing we might
> not want to do. I'm sure if your car broke down due to oil failure or
> some type of engine oil neglect, mobil wouldnt say ok here's a new motor.
>
>
> Changing the oil every 3mo or 3k miles is the single most important
> preventitive maintence service that should be executed without question.
>
> but like I said FYI:


It's also the cheapest thing you can do to a car to protect it and ensure
long life. Out here where petrol has reached $1.15 a litre thanx to the
oil-price instability,..an oil change *and filter* done at home costs less
than 1/3 of a fuel-tank fill, unless you are on LPG where it would be even
less.

I have a '96 I bought 2nd-hand with the 4 cyl 5SFE engine (a phenomonal
engine BTW). Later I found it had black tar-like deposits inside the
cam-cover about 1mm thick, plus the sump had been off. Yet since the 16,000
Ks and 2 yrs I have owned it, it has not had any further problems,..why?
Because I stick to the recommended change limits or less (mostly less).

Jason



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Old 19 Aug 2005, 09:49 am   #9 (permalink)
Nobody Important
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Default Re: Oil Change Intervails

justinm930 wrote:

> I dont care what test your ran in a lab. I am a mechanic.


I have this theory that the 3000 mi/ 3 mo people are the creationists
of the automotive world. :-) I don't have the energy/time to argue
any more.

Nobody Important
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Old 20 Aug 2005, 02:34 pm   #10 (permalink)
Curtis Newton
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Default Re: Oil Change Intervails

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 08:05:24 -0400, "justinm930"
<justinm930@yahoo.com> wrote:

>FYI: I work on cars for a living. About 50% of my business is oil changes.
> Many customers go between 4k and 5k miles untill they change the engine
>oil. I've seen mobil one with good fram filters after 4k and it looks
>like regular crap oil with a generic filter. While synthetic oil is
>better in terms of its heat resistance properties and its ability to run
>clean at extended intervails (3500 to 4000 mi MAX) you still should change
>your oil every 3 months or 3,000 miles which ever comes first.
>



No question, a 3,000 mile interval is the oil company party line ...
do you get a commission from Shell, Mobil, etc? The more you can get
people in and believing that, the more you can make by offering other
services such as fuel injection cleaning or other items.

Appreciate your thoughts on how our 1988 Camry was ever able to
achieve 305,000+ miles with 4,000 mile oil changes if the 3,000 is the
max ... it is still running strong today. I would hardly call 4,000
miles extended intervals.

BTW, this is driving around Maryland/DC for about 4 years and then
stop/go in Denver, CO with Pennzoil 10W30 in summer and 5W30 in winter
with Toyota OEM filters.




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