The Dealership dance

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Old 09 Dec 2005, 06:38 pm   #1 (permalink)
Built_Well
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Default The Dealership dance

Well, I did the Edmunds thing of contacting several
dealerships in one fell swoop via Edmunds' internet form.

The first dealership located 100 miles away quoted me
$18,200 (including doc. fee) for a new '06 automatic Camry LE.
That's the best price. Another dealership quoted $18,700.
A third 19,100. The fourth and last one never emailed.

Unfortunately, my local dealership isn't participating
in the Edmunds network--a shame since they're only 5 miles
away. The locals want $18,900.

All the dealerships were very DISpleased when I asked
if any of them could match the 18,200 from the dealership
that's located 100 miles away. "They're not making any
money on that deal," one salesman retorted.

Is it really true they're not making any money? I
can't see why a dealership would sell at a loss!

The lowest priced fellas are the largest Toyota
dealership in the state, by the way. Should I buy from
them? The quality of their super low-priced Camry LE will
be identical to the other dealerships, won't it? And last
just as long before breaking down, I hope?

Any advice would be great appreciated. Thanks very
much.
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Old 09 Dec 2005, 06:54 pm   #2 (permalink)
Ray O
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Default Re: The Dealership dance


"Built_Well" <bw@bbbb.com> wrote in message
newsan.2005.12.09.19.28.35.152.2888@bbbb.com...
> Well, I did the Edmunds thing of contacting several
> dealerships in one fell swoop via Edmunds' internet form.
>
> The first dealership located 100 miles away quoted me
> $18,200 (including doc. fee) for a new '06 automatic Camry LE.
> That's the best price. Another dealership quoted $18,700.
> A third 19,100. The fourth and last one never emailed.
>
> Unfortunately, my local dealership isn't participating
> in the Edmunds network--a shame since they're only 5 miles
> away. The locals want $18,900.
>
> All the dealerships were very DISpleased when I asked
> if any of them could match the 18,200 from the dealership
> that's located 100 miles away. "They're not making any
> money on that deal," one salesman retorted.
>
> Is it really true they're not making any money? I
> can't see why a dealership would sell at a loss!


Dealerships are not meant to be a non-profit organization and they do not
sell at a loss. All other things being equal, a dealership with a lower
overhead can sell for less markup than one with a high overhead, and one
that sells more volume can sell for less markup than one that sell at a
lower volume becuase certain costs are fairly constant.

>
> The lowest priced fellas are the largest Toyota
> dealership in the state, by the way. Should I buy from
> them?


If purchase price is your sole determing factor, then you should purchase
from the dealer with the lowest cost. If you factor in customer service,
reputation, and convenience, then the answer is not as clear.

The quality of their super low-priced Camry LE will
> be identical to the other dealerships, won't it?


Yes.

And last
> just as long before breaking down, I hope?


Yes.
>
> Any advice would be great appreciated. Thanks very
> much.

--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply


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Old 09 Dec 2005, 06:55 pm   #3 (permalink)
timbirr@mailcity.com
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Default Re: The Dealership dance

I found that despite all the hoopla about using the various
internet/fax/phone methods for buying a car that, at least for me,
nothing beat actually going into the dealership and walking out when
they refuse to hit your price.

It's funny, but when I was searching for my Camry LE (four-speed), all
dealerships, except one quoted ME $18,200 -- and that was taking into
account the $1,000 rebate that Toyota was offering at the time....so
the "real" selling price was $19,200. I did several combos of e-mail,
phone and fax contacts, depending on the dealers, ranging from a number
of people who have various titles such as "internet sales manager,"
fleet sales manager, etc.

I finally went into my two local dealerships IN PERSON, both within 20
miles, told them I would pay no more than $17,400 BEFORE rebate. They
both flatly refused, but when I got home later that day, I had messages
on my answering from both dealers agreeing to my price....

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Old 09 Dec 2005, 07:56 pm   #4 (permalink)
m Ransley
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Default Re: The Dealership dance

They all make money, look at those showrooms, who paid for them, YOU.
Give them all your cheapest price, even go in for 1 minute, they will
come down.

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Old 09 Dec 2005, 07:57 pm   #5 (permalink)
m Ransley
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Default Re: The Dealership dance

They all make money, look at those showrooms, who paid for them, YOU.
Give them all your cheapest price, even go in for 1 minute, they will
come down.

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Old 09 Dec 2005, 08:22 pm   #6 (permalink)
qslim
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Default Re: The Dealership dance

Hey Ray, what do you do for a living? I must say you have a great handle on
the practical ins and outs of dealer operation.

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Old 10 Dec 2005, 12:52 am   #7 (permalink)
Rob B
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Default Re: The Dealership dance


"Built_Well" <bw@bbbb.com> wrote in message
newsan.2005.12.09.19.28.35.152.2888@bbbb.com...
>
> Well, I did the Edmunds thing of contacting several
> dealerships in one fell swoop via Edmunds' internet form.
>
> The first dealership located 100 miles away quoted me
> $18,200 (including doc. fee) for a new '06 automatic Camry LE.
> That's the best price. Another dealership quoted $18,700.
> A third 19,100. The fourth and last one never emailed.
>


did those prices include the factory to customer rebate ?
watch out for stealing your rebate, funny dealers give you a sell price
quote (minus the factory to customer rebate) so that it makes their quote
look like great offer

so the 18,200 is **everything** but Tax/Tag/Title ?

too bad you can not find a new '05 with the $1500 rebate

>
> Unfortunately, my local dealership isn't participating
> in the Edmunds network--a shame since they're only 5 miles
> away. The locals want $18,900.
>
> All the dealerships were very DISpleased when I asked
> if any of them could match the 18,200 from the dealership
> that's located 100 miles away. "They're not making any
> money on that deal," one salesman retorted.
>


Not surprised, sales people know you are shopping around but they do not
want it thrown in their face? that is they want you to be adversary not
compete with some other sales person.

>
> Is it really true they're not making any money? I
> can't see why a dealership would sell at a loss!
>


If it is a real quote then dealer is benefiting somehow , making money,
meeting quota, moving stock not at loss etc

>
> The lowest priced fellas are the largest Toyota
> dealership in the state, by the way. Should I buy from
> them? The quality of their super low-priced Camry LE will
> be identical to the other dealerships, won't it? And last
> just as long before breaking down, I hope?
>

sounds like another volume discount situation so sounds plausible. The sales
manager at dealer i purchased from over internet/phone said that 85% of
there business was pre-sold vehicles, they were volume as well.

YMMV but
I was once burned by a similar deal (when i was younger and more naieve) a
dealer about 40 min drive from me gave a good quote over the phone and faxed
it to me. when i drove out they said sorry that car has been purchased can
we interest you in this one (of course for a little bit more). so avoid this
however one does this. 100 miles is a bit of a hike.

>
> Any advice would be great appreciated. Thanks very
> much.
>


www.carbuyersecret.com to calculate a fair offer.
(toyota have %2 holdback and $500 factory-dealer incentive)

www.carsdirect.com to get an idea of what a car buying agent can buy same
car for then subtract the middle-man fee (%5-7) to get a ball park
negotiated price, my first pass at buying '05 highlander carsdirect could
get about $200 better than me so i knew my quotes were at least $1200 more
than i should expect

I just went through this with a '06 highlander

Internet/phone shopping is way i purchased but mainly because i was tired of
the run around with dealership games, that is trying to steal your time. The
free quotes through Edmunds and others was a joke about 1 to 4 callback
successes. I visited closest dealer's websites and sent a e-mail direct,
said i wanted a car with these options send me quote, i have time frame 2
weeks (that gave best response)

Nothing beats the negotiation power of walking out of dealership when they
do not want to deal *BUT* (the big but) one needs to have a real figure
when you negotiate with your feet. If it is a bogus low ball and you walk,
you likely become the joke of the day, if it is a real offer and you walk
that is negotiation.

Depends on your preferences i suppose.

HTH



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Old 10 Dec 2005, 11:45 am   #8 (permalink)
Built_Well
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Default Re: The Dealership dance

The 18,200 includes the current $500 rebate and
the doc fee.

I suppose the low-priced dealership coming in at
$18,200 was "lying" when they said over the phone
that they weren't making any money selling the
'06 Camry LE automatic at 18,200.

I think 18,200 is a good price because 2 dealerships
didn't even give me a quote, saying they couldn't
match 18,200 and so wouldn't even provide a quote.

I think the 18,200 was a no-haggle price. I think
it's a good price because
CarMax.com's Laurel, Maryland Toyota dealership also
has a no-haggle price of about 18,200 on the same car.

CarMax.com has no-haggle pricing, but I think it's
important to choose the right CarMax because it looks
like the Chicago CarMax.com dealership is more expensive
than the Laurel, Maryland CarMax (Baltimore/D.C. area).

Both CarMax's have no-haggle pricing, but one prices
lower than the other.
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Old 10 Dec 2005, 12:36 pm   #9 (permalink)
Pszemol
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Default Re: The Dealership dance

After I read your post I went to carmax.com to check what is available
in Chicago area and I found something strange: several camry LE
cars, same model number prices with different price 18,338-19167.
All of them seem to list THE SAME optional equipment (cars with
sunroof listed for much more). What would be the reason for the
different price ? Is this just different color ?
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Old 10 Dec 2005, 12:44 pm   #10 (permalink)
ll
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Default Re: The Dealership dance

Built_Well wrote:
> Is it really true they're not making any money?
> I can't see why a dealership would sell at a loss!


What does kbb.com say the invoice price is for your configuration?
Make the dealers break down their prices (details!) so you can
see how they arrive at the bottom line. This way, for example,
there's no doubt about what's happening with any rebates.
And they can't surprise/trick you later by saying that a certain
cost was not included in their earlier quote.


Ray O wrote:
> If you factor in customer service, reputation, and convenience,
> then the answer is not as clear.


On a purchase transaction of a vehicle (not maintenance/service
of the vehicle), why are these important? There's a bottom line,
drive out price.

(I agree they're important for maintenance/service.)
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