93 Camry Ignition problem...

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Old 25 Feb 2006, 05:21 am   #1 (permalink)
Phill
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Default 93 Camry Ignition problem...

I drove my Camry to its parking spot yesterday, today it is DEAD!!
This is a 4 cylinder 5S FE 2.2Litre motor. It has a distributor with
the coil internal. I have a nice spark at the coil output terminal,
sufficient to fire an 18" flouro tube, (sorry, no equipment for a real
test) but not enough to get ANY spark at all at the plug end of any of
the leads. The rotor is near new and is in perfect condition, as is
the cap. The carbon terminals (brushes?) are both in good cond. and
touching the rotor and the coil output terminal. The leads are well
within specs, (10 to 12K) and 25K is the spec. max. The only thing I
can't find a spec. on is the resistance of the internal bridge in the
cap that takes the power from the coil o/put to the rotor. It is
reading 15K, and I checked the old cap which was still working OK and
it reads 25K so the new one is clearly better. I checked all the
settings and voltages in the distributor and all is well. The engine
cranks over but there is no hint of it firing. I took out a couple of
leads and stuck a plug on the end and there is nothing. I also put a
small (8") flouro tube in the end of the leads and nothing, yet the
coil output terminal will fire an 18" tube. What am I missing here?
The spark is getting lost somewhere along the line but where? Any help
greatly appreciated. Thanks, Phill.
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Old 25 Feb 2006, 08:48 am   #2 (permalink)
m Ransley
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Default Re: 93 Camry Ignition problem...

You are sure it turns over , the rotor moves and it fires the bulb, so
it is not the timing belt. I would guess the coil, but it could be just
shorting from oil leaking past the O ring allowing nightime condensation
to short the coil. First I would clean the coil with denatured alcohol
on a Clean White rag and spray electronics cleaner with a extension tube
to get behind the coil. Shorting coils are common on coil under
distributor cap models. It is common to short when humid or rain after
sitting all night, running bad till it is let sit with a hot motor
drying it out for up to 1 hr. Your new cap may not fit right, do you
have the cap to distributor rubber gasket? It is a seperate 12$ item the
manual says to replace. I had those issues on a 91 because of a loose
cap and ditry coil. Now it is fine for 1 yr+. The cap must be Tight to
not allow in air, shake it if it moves it is loose. After cleaning a
hair dryer may help to dry out moisture. Don`t use wd40, Use Electronics
Cleaner and not Rubbing alcohol, rubbing Alcohol contains a lubricant.
If it works and coil was black with dirt it is your O ring, but it may
be fine for years as removing the coil means removing the distributor.
You did check more than one plug wire. let us know if it helps.

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Old 25 Feb 2006, 09:09 am   #3 (permalink)
Phill
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Default Re: 93 Camry Ignition problem...

There is no oil anywhere in the distributor and it is the middle of
summer here, hot and dry. The coil is producing plenty of spark. Its
just not getting to the leads.

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 08:48:53 -0600, ransley@webtv.net (m Ransley)
wrote:

>You are sure it turns over , the rotor moves and it fires the bulb, so
>it is not the timing belt. I would guess the coil, but it could be just
>shorting from oil leaking past the O ring allowing nightime condensation
>to short the coil. First I would clean the coil with denatured alcohol
>on a Clean White rag and spray electronics cleaner with a extension tube
>to get behind the coil. Shorting coils are common on coil under
>distributor cap models. It is common to short when humid or rain after
>sitting all night, running bad till it is let sit with a hot motor
>drying it out for up to 1 hr. Your new cap may not fit right, do you
>have the cap to distributor rubber gasket? It is a seperate 12$ item the
>manual says to replace. I had those issues on a 91 because of a loose
>cap and ditry coil. Now it is fine for 1 yr+. The cap must be Tight to
>not allow in air, shake it if it moves it is loose. After cleaning a
>hair dryer may help to dry out moisture. Don`t use wd40, Use Electronics
>Cleaner and not Rubbing alcohol, rubbing Alcohol contains a lubricant.
>If it works and coil was black with dirt it is your O ring, but it may
>be fine for years as removing the coil means removing the distributor.
>You did check more than one plug wire. let us know if it helps.

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Old 25 Feb 2006, 05:11 pm   #4 (permalink)
davidj92
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Default Re: 93 Camry Ignition problem...

Phill wrote:
> There is no oil anywhere in the distributor and it is the middle of
> summer here, hot and dry. The coil is producing plenty of spark. Its
> just not getting to the leads.


I'm assuming you took a loose spark plug, attached it to the plug wire and
held the ground end of the spark plug on a good ground while cranking the
engine.
Can you borrow a new plug wire from a shop you're friendly with? (Almost all
shops will have odd wires laying around.) Or take a known good one from a
different engine to use for a test. Use the known good wire and repeat the
procedure with the loose spark plug.
Still no spark, check the resistance on the coil, I suspect you have a bad
coil or coil problem from your description. There should be very low
resistance (could be less than 1 ohm) on the primary side and 10K-15K on the
secondary side. (These are approximates, but the relationship should be very
low on primary and very high on secondary, if not then there is an internal
short and coil won't produce enough voltage for good spark.)
Before you replace coil I suggest you follow Mark Ramsley's guide and clean
the coil and inside the cap. It doesn't take much of an oil film to make a
path to ground as the resistance is extremely less than the spark plug and
wire. Remember electricity is like water and will follow the path of least
resistance.
HTH, davidj92


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Old 25 Feb 2006, 05:40 pm   #5 (permalink)
m Ransley
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Default Re: 93 Camry Ignition problem...

You may not see oil , I did not in cleaning mine, but a white rag came
up black and it fixed the issue. Pulling a distributor is work.

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Old 25 Feb 2006, 06:14 pm   #6 (permalink)
Phill
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Default Re: 93 Camry Ignition problem...


I have had the distributor out on the bench and tested the coil
primary, the coil secondary, the air gap on the multi toothed and the
single toothed rotor, and the pick-up coil resistance. All are well
within specifications listed in the manual. The cap is clean.
Bear in mind that this car was driven one day and was perfect, the
next day it is dead, not even firing on one cylinder.
The only thing I have no reference for is the resistance of the
internal bridge that links the rotor buton to the coil output. Mine is
reading 15K ohms, and an old one I have reads 25K, so the new one
should be ok?

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 17:40:49 -0600, ransley@webtv.net (m Ransley)
wrote:

>You may not see oil , I did not in cleaning mine, but a white rag came
>up black and it fixed the issue. Pulling a distributor is work.

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Old 25 Feb 2006, 06:32 pm   #7 (permalink)
Phill
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Default Re: 93 Camry Ignition problem...


I noticed in the manual that there is an IGNITER in the ignition
system, but my manual does not tell me anything other than how to
change it. Could that be responsible in some way? I have no idea what
it does, how to check it or what effect it would have if it was not
functioning correctly.


On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 08:14:53 +0800, Phill <info@visitus2day.com>
wrote:

>
>I have had the distributor out on the bench and tested the coil
>primary, the coil secondary, the air gap on the multi toothed and the
>single toothed rotor, and the pick-up coil resistance. All are well
>within specifications listed in the manual. The cap is clean.
>Bear in mind that this car was driven one day and was perfect, the
>next day it is dead, not even firing on one cylinder.
>The only thing I have no reference for is the resistance of the
>internal bridge that links the rotor buton to the coil output. Mine is
>reading 15K ohms, and an old one I have reads 25K, so the new one
>should be ok?
>
>On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 17:40:49 -0600, ransley@webtv.net (m Ransley)
>wrote:
>
>>You may not see oil , I did not in cleaning mine, but a white rag came
>>up black and it fixed the issue. Pulling a distributor is work.

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Old 26 Feb 2006, 08:22 am   #8 (permalink)
Daniel
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Default Re: 93 Camry Ignition problem...

See the Factory Service Manual Ignition section for igniter trouble
shooting - that well may be the source of your problem:

http://www.turboninjas.com/camry/

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Old 27 Feb 2006, 02:10 am   #9 (permalink)
Phill
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Default Re: 93 Camry Ignition problem...


I fitted a new coil today and all is well again for anyone interested.
The guy at Toyota said he has never sold a coil before, so must be
rare problem.
Phill.


On 26 Feb 2006 06:22:03 -0800, "Daniel" <nospampls2002@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>See the Factory Service Manual Ignition section for igniter trouble
>shooting - that well may be the source of your problem:
>
>http://www.turboninjas.com/camry/

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Old 27 Feb 2006, 09:00 am   #10 (permalink)
farmerboy
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Default Re: 93 Camry Ignition problem...

My coil tested ok too, replaced it and all was well.
"Phill" <info@visitus2day.com> wrote in message
news:4bs102dp6pe3c68pfvf0cd31uhvthos4vn@4ax.com...
>
> I have had the distributor out on the bench and tested the coil
> primary, the coil secondary, the air gap on the multi toothed and the
> single toothed rotor, and the pick-up coil resistance. All are well
> within specifications listed in the manual. The cap is clean.
> Bear in mind that this car was driven one day and was perfect, the
> next day it is dead, not even firing on one cylinder.
> The only thing I have no reference for is the resistance of the
> internal bridge that links the rotor buton to the coil output. Mine is
> reading 15K ohms, and an old one I have reads 25K, so the new one
> should be ok?
>
> On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 17:40:49 -0600, ransley@webtv.net (m Ransley)
> wrote:
>
>>You may not see oil , I did not in cleaning mine, but a white rag came
>>up black and it fixed the issue. Pulling a distributor is work.



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