idle rpm changing all the time

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Old 04 May 2006, 02:13 am   #1 (permalink)
jan siepelstad
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Default idle rpm changing all the time

I have a 4 cyl. Camry 2.2 form '98.

Is use two different fuels.
Normaly I use what we call LPG (mixture of propane and buthane).
In that case the idle rpm is stable at around 800 rpm.

However when I switch to gasoline, the idle rpm is not stable anymore (in
the past it was OK).
It varies between 400-800 rpm and is changing with a frequency of around
0.5 - 1 Hz.
The motor just stays running, but is close to stopping.

When I use my right foot to push down the gas a little, it's stable at
around 1000 rpm.

So I could adjust Idle speed a little to the +, but then the idle rpm on LPG
will be too high

Anyone any idea of what to look for?


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Old 04 May 2006, 07:02 am   #2 (permalink)
m Ransley
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Default Re: idle rpm changing all the time

How do you use Propane and Buthane, so you have a heavy, several
hundred pound tank somewhere, and a special hook up. I never heard of
that in a camry as it is too heavy, only in trucks.

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Old 04 May 2006, 03:30 pm   #3 (permalink)
davidj92
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Default Re: idle rpm changing all the time

jan siepelstad wrote:
> I have a 4 cyl. Camry 2.2 form '98.
>
> Is use two different fuels.
> Normaly I use what we call LPG (mixture of propane and buthane).
> In that case the idle rpm is stable at around 800 rpm.
>
> However when I switch to gasoline, the idle rpm is not stable anymore
> (in the past it was OK).
> It varies between 400-800 rpm and is changing with a frequency of
> around 0.5 - 1 Hz.
> The motor just stays running, but is close to stopping.
>
> When I use my right foot to push down the gas a little, it's stable at
> around 1000 rpm.
>
> So I could adjust Idle speed a little to the +, but then the idle rpm
> on LPG will be too high
>
> Anyone any idea of what to look for?


I've never messed with an engine that has a throttle body/injection system
and LP, but this setup with a carb used a plate/LP control under the carb to
shut it off and dispense the LP gas. When in the gasoline mode, the throttle
body is subject to the same problems as it would be without LP, which is
dirt and oil residue in the idle air valve. I'd say you just need to clean
the throttle body and if that doesn't solve it then you may have an injector
problem. It's also possible it's due for a basic tune-up, plugs, wires,
filters and etc. IIRC, LP has a lower flash point than gasoline so it would
ignite with a weak ignition system where gasoline wouldn't.
HTH, Dave


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Old 04 May 2006, 03:41 pm   #4 (permalink)
jg
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Default Re: idle rpm changing all the time


"m Ransley" <ransley@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:8180-4459ED66-1105@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net...
> How do you use Propane and Buthane, so you have a heavy, several
> hundred pound tank somewhere, and a special hook up. I never heard of
> that in a camry as it is too heavy, only in trucks.
>

Yes gas conversions are quite common/popular here in Australia. Takes up a
fair bit of room in the boot, but the weight is no big deal. They look like
a big barbeque cylinder.


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Old 04 May 2006, 04:32 pm   #5 (permalink)
jan siepelstad
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Default Re: idle rpm changing all the time

Just to be clear:

My tank doesn't weigh several hundred pounds, but maybe 25 -30 kg. contents
60 liters.
To show you why: gasoline cost here in Holland is approx. ? 1,40/litre. LPG
costs around ? 0,48/litre.
Because of the heating value of LPG you need about 15% more litres.
The plate under the carb where you are talking about is a little old
fashioned.
We use injection systems nowadays. So injection of fluid Propane/buthane
through injector's controlled by electronics and using the same lambda (O2)
sensor as the gasoline system does.

So cleaning throttle body, sparkplugs (I just have got new one's, new
filtres etc.). new cables etc. is al irrelevant, because they work fine when
using the LPG fuel!

Best regards,

Jan.


"davidj92" <davidj92REMOVE@sigecom.net> wrote in message
news:UaWdnfjoIKf6-cfZnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@sigecom.net...
> jan siepelstad wrote:
>> I have a 4 cyl. Camry 2.2 form '98.
>>
>> Is use two different fuels.
>> Normaly I use what we call LPG (mixture of propane and buthane).
>> In that case the idle rpm is stable at around 800 rpm.
>>
>> However when I switch to gasoline, the idle rpm is not stable anymore
>> (in the past it was OK).
>> It varies between 400-800 rpm and is changing with a frequency of
>> around 0.5 - 1 Hz.
>> The motor just stays running, but is close to stopping.
>>
>> When I use my right foot to push down the gas a little, it's stable at
>> around 1000 rpm.
>>
>> So I could adjust Idle speed a little to the +, but then the idle rpm
>> on LPG will be too high
>>
>> Anyone any idea of what to look for?

>
> I've never messed with an engine that has a throttle body/injection system
> and LP, but this setup with a carb used a plate/LP control under the carb
> to shut it off and dispense the LP gas. When in the gasoline mode, the
> throttle body is subject to the same problems as it would be without LP,
> which is dirt and oil residue in the idle air valve. I'd say you just need
> to clean the throttle body and if that doesn't solve it then you may have
> an injector problem. It's also possible it's due for a basic tune-up,
> plugs, wires, filters and etc. IIRC, LP has a lower flash point than
> gasoline so it would ignite with a weak ignition system where gasoline
> wouldn't.
> HTH, Dave
>



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Old 04 May 2006, 11:23 pm   #6 (permalink)
mrdarrett@gmail.com
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Default Re: idle rpm changing all the time


jan siepelstad wrote:
> Just to be clear:
>
> My tank doesn't weigh several hundred pounds, but maybe 25 -30 kg. contents
> 60 liters.
> To show you why: gasoline cost here in Holland is approx. ? 1,40/litre. LPG
> costs around ? 0,48/litre.
> Because of the heating value of LPG you need about 15% more litres.
> The plate under the carb where you are talking about is a little old
> fashioned.
> We use injection systems nowadays. So injection of fluid Propane/buthane
> through injector's controlled by electronics and using the same lambda (O2)
> sensor as the gasoline system does.
>
> So cleaning throttle body, sparkplugs (I just have got new one's, new
> filtres etc.). new cables etc. is al irrelevant, because they work fine when
> using the LPG fuel!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jan.
>


How many kilometers / miles again on the vehicle?

Throttle plate is the plate just upstream of the air intake hose; it
has nothing to do with a carburetor. It gets stuck sometimes... clean
with throttle plate cleaner solvents.

If it's high mileage, try looking into cleaning the idle air control
valve and fuel filter. As someone mentioned, it might be a good idea
to look into the spark plug wires and distributor system too,
especially if you have >200,000 km on the vehicle and never changed the
wires/distributor... does it get very cold in your area? Oh, and how's
your EGR filter looking? Any burn marks? (It's the filter inside the
EGR modulator)

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Old 05 May 2006, 12:26 pm   #7 (permalink)
jan siepelstad
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Default Re: idle rpm changing all the time


<mrdarrett@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1146803033.224282.152600@u72g2000cwu.googlegr oups.com...
>
> jan siepelstad wrote:
>> Just to be clear:
>>
>> My tank doesn't weigh several hundred pounds, but maybe 25 -30 kg.
>> contents
>> 60 liters.
>> To show you why: gasoline cost here in Holland is approx. ? 1,40/litre.
>> LPG
>> costs around ? 0,48/litre.
>> Because of the heating value of LPG you need about 15% more litres.
>> The plate under the carb where you are talking about is a little old
>> fashioned.
>> We use injection systems nowadays. So injection of fluid Propane/buthane
>> through injector's controlled by electronics and using the same lambda
>> (O2)
>> sensor as the gasoline system does.
>>
>> So cleaning throttle body, sparkplugs (I just have got new one's, new
>> filtres etc.). new cables etc. is al irrelevant, because they work fine
>> when
>> using the LPG fuel!
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Jan.
>>

>
> How many kilometers / miles again on the vehicle?


I drove 365.000 km.

>
> Throttle plate is the plate just upstream of the air intake hose; it
> has nothing to do with a carburetor. It gets stuck sometimes... clean
> with throttle plate cleaner solvents.


Why should it be stuck when I drive on gasoline and not when I drive on LPG?

>
> If it's high mileage, try looking into cleaning the idle air control
> valve and fuel filter. As someone mentioned, it might be a good idea
> to look into the spark plug wires and distributor system too,
> especially if you have >200,000 km on the vehicle and never changed the
> wires/distributor... does it get very cold in your area? Oh, and how's
> your EGR filter looking? Any burn marks? (It's the filter inside the
> EGR modulator)


I never changed wires / distributor, bur again, why would it be bad an
gasoline idle and be ok at higher revs and also ok at LPG at all rpm's?

In our area the mean winter temp. is around + 5 C. However, sometimes at
can be minus 15C.
I never have starting problems at low temps.


See my questions and remarks in between your text.

Best regards,

Jan


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