60,000 miles service for a 1995 camry

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Old 10 Jul 2006, 10:10 pm   #1 (permalink)
Pszemol
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Default 60,000 miles service for a 1995 camry

Anybody here knows what goes into the 60k miles
standard service for an older camry from 1995?

I have visited the dealer website but they seem to
have only stuff for newer cars (no timing belt, etc).

Is it usually worth the money or I would rather
itemise service items and split them between parts
I could do myself and things I should do in the shop ?
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Old 10 Jul 2006, 10:50 pm   #2 (permalink)
johngdole@hotmail.com
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Default Re: 60,000 miles service for a 1995 camry

The 95 with the 5SFE engine is similar to two generations of Camrys
until 2001. The timing belt interval was 60K miles instead of 90K
miles. But 60K mile was a good ideal as water pumps start to go bad and
people lose coolant gradually without realizing what. There are older
thermal air valves and such, but not that different.

I don't know how mechanically inclined you are. But it'll be better for
your wallet and your car if you can do as much of the stuff yourself,
taking better care than techs rushing the job. It's expensive at the
dealer, and you won't know if they even changed your coolant. Timing
belt and other services not listed are "at additional cost," like
platinum plugs, etc.

You can easily save 50% by using an independent mechanic specializing
in Toyotas. They are usually former techs with factory training. But
finding any good mechanic, including at the dealer, is kinda hard. I've
seen crap coming out of service departments. That's a reason why many
of us here do the work ourselves as much as we can.

Besides, dealers don't itemize the work, they just put "60000 major
service." So they can skip some of the the work and tell you that's for
next year or for 75,000 service without being liable.


Pszemol wrote:
> Anybody here knows what goes into the 60k miles
> standard service for an older camry from 1995?
>
> I have visited the dealer website but they seem to
> have only stuff for newer cars (no timing belt, etc).
>
> Is it usually worth the money or I would rather
> itemise service items and split them between parts
> I could do myself and things I should do in the shop ?


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Old 12 Jul 2006, 12:20 am   #3 (permalink)
mack
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Default Re: 60,000 miles service for a 1995 camry


<johngdole@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152589826.142044.231480@m79g2000cwm.googlegr oups.com...
> The 95 with the 5SFE engine is similar to two generations of Camrys
> until 2001. The timing belt interval was 60K miles instead of 90K
> miles. But 60K mile was a good ideal as water pumps start to go bad and
> people lose coolant gradually without realizing what. There are older
> thermal air valves and such, but not that different.
>
> I don't know how mechanically inclined you are. But it'll be better for
> your wallet and your car if you can do as much of the stuff yourself,
> taking better care than techs rushing the job. It's expensive at the
> dealer, and you won't know if they even changed your coolant. Timing
> belt and other services not listed are "at additional cost," like
> platinum plugs, etc.
>
> You can easily save 50% by using an independent mechanic specializing
> in Toyotas. They are usually former techs with factory training. But
> finding any good mechanic, including at the dealer, is kinda hard. I've
> seen crap coming out of service departments. That's a reason why many
> of us here do the work ourselves as much as we can.
>
> Besides, dealers don't itemize the work, they just put "60000 major
> service." So they can skip some of the the work and tell you that's for
> next year or for 75,000 service without being liable.
>


Plus the fact that some of the things 'performed' at these mileage interval
services are just plain b.s., like "tighten the door hinges" ....funny, I've
owned over a two dozen cars in my life, and not once did I ever find that
one had a loose door hinge. These services at specified intervals are for
setting little old ladies' minds at ease while taking vast amounts of their
money. Don't get me wrong, certain services are a good thing, like
replacing a timing belt and water pump, but others are about as useless as
changing the air in the tires.


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Old 12 Jul 2006, 10:44 am   #4 (permalink)
Pszemol
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Default Re: 60,000 miles service for a 1995 camry

"mack" <mackerel@dslextreme.com> wrote in message news:12b91l978dt9tfa@corp.supernews.com...
> Plus the fact that some of the things 'performed' at these mileage interval
> services are just plain b.s., like "tighten the door hinges" ....funny, I've
> owned over a two dozen cars in my life, and not once did I ever find that
> one had a loose door hinge. These services at specified intervals are for
> setting little old ladies' minds at ease while taking vast amounts of their
> money. Don't get me wrong, certain services are a good thing, like
> replacing a timing belt and water pump, but others are about as useless as
> changing the air in the tires.
>


Here are some prices I got from a chicagoland toyota dealership:

timing belt replacement = $270
water pump replacement (together with t-belt) ~ $200
complete transmission fluid replacement (flush) = $130
fuel system sevice (trotle+injectors) = $150
complete cooling system flush = $100
platinium spark plugs replacement = $90
engine oil/filter change = $30

30000 miles service costs like $375 and the only things
done are oil/filter change, coolant and transmission.
The rest are "inspections" only (like exhaust, lights, etc).
It does not include major things like timing belt nor the water pump.

60000 miles service is the same as 30000 except it does
include sparkplug replacement and cost about $100 more...
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Old 12 Jul 2006, 11:46 am   #5 (permalink)
Daniel
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Default Re: 60,000 miles service for a 1995 camry

Pszemol wrote:
>
> Here are some prices I got from a chicagoland toyota dealership:
>

============
Here's what I did at 120,000 miles on a '94 (these are notes for my own
records for work I've done at home):

6/12/04: Major Servicing: 120,124 miles:
Replace: timing belt, crankshaft oil seal, oil pump oil seal, oil pump
O-ring, camshaft oil seal, idler bearing, idler tensioner bearing,
timing cover gasket set, valve cover gasket, ck valve clearances, PCV
valve, PCV valve grommet, oil cap gasket, distributor O-ring,
distributor cap, rotor, distributor packing, spark plug wires, spark
plugs, fuel filter, air filter, ck. battery, oil pan gasket,
transmission pan gasket, water pump, thermostat, radiator cap, gas cap,
differential service, engine moving control rod, accessory drive belts:
power steering pump, A/C - alternator, alternator brushes, ck. chassis
mounting bolt torque, set ignition timing

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Old 12 Jul 2006, 09:35 pm   #6 (permalink)
Pszemol
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Default Re: 60,000 miles service for a 1995 camry

"Daniel" <nospampls2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1152722797.907524.11580@m79g2000cwm.googlegro ups.com...
> Here's what I did at 120,000 miles on a '94 (these are notes for my own
> records for work I've done at home):
>
> 6/12/04: Major Servicing: 120,124 miles:
> Replace: timing belt, crankshaft oil seal, oil pump oil seal, oil pump
> O-ring, camshaft oil seal, idler bearing, idler tensioner bearing,
> timing cover gasket set, valve cover gasket, ck valve clearances, PCV
> valve, PCV valve grommet, oil cap gasket, distributor O-ring,
> distributor cap, rotor, distributor packing, spark plug wires, spark
> plugs, fuel filter, air filter, ck. battery, oil pan gasket,
> transmission pan gasket, water pump, thermostat, radiator cap, gas cap,
> differential service, engine moving control rod, accessory drive belts:
> power steering pump, A/C - alternator, alternator brushes, ck. chassis
> mounting bolt torque, set ignition timing


You have it done because you had to do it (due to a failure)
or you just replaced non-leaking gaskets and other things
just because you had nothing better to do over the weekend ? ;-)
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Old 13 Jul 2006, 11:08 am   #7 (permalink)
Daniel
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Default Re: 60,000 miles service for a 1995 camry

Pszemol wrote:
> "Daniel" <nospampls2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1152722797.907524.11580@m79g2000cwm.googlegro ups.com...
> > Here's what I did at 120,000 miles on a '94 (these are notes for my own
> > records for work I've done at home):
> >
> > 6/12/04: Major Servicing: 120,124 miles:
> > Replace: timing belt, crankshaft oil seal, oil pump oil seal, oil pump
> > O-ring, camshaft oil seal, idler bearing, idler tensioner bearing,
> > timing cover gasket set, valve cover gasket, ck valve clearances, PCV
> > valve, PCV valve grommet, oil cap gasket, distributor O-ring,
> > distributor cap, rotor, distributor packing, spark plug wires, spark
> > plugs, fuel filter, air filter, ck. battery, oil pan gasket,
> > transmission pan gasket, water pump, thermostat, radiator cap, gas cap,
> > differential service, engine moving control rod, accessory drive belts:
> > power steering pump, A/C - alternator, alternator brushes, ck. chassis
> > mounting bolt torque, set ignition timing

>
> You have it done because you had to do it (due to a failure)
> or you just replaced non-leaking gaskets and other things
> just because you had nothing better to do over the weekend ? ;-)

=================================
Timing belt was scheduled.
Water pump, primarily because I was there and otherwise at 120k it
would be 180k before I got back in there again.
Seals are cheap insurance. There was slight seepage. Seems like all my
seals were embrittled.
The PCV grommet broke into pieces as did the distributor O ring - a
factor of age and heat I expect.
The oil pan gasket seepage was identified by the dealer when I had
alignment checked and they were right.
The transmission pan gasket turned out not to be the real problem - I
discovered a prior mechanic had stripped two of the pan bolts and just
left them hanging, but not holding any tension. I feel very fortunate
to have been able to simply use longer bolts from the dealer - those
case locations allowed threading all the way through.
The oil filler cap gasket was probably unnecessary. I saw the gasket
available as a separate part on my microfilm parts list ($15) and it
seemed like a good idea.
The manual says replace the gas cap gasket, so I just replaced the gas
cap, because the existing was not a Toyota part and new was only $12.
Engine moving control rod had incipient cracking in the rubber bushing
and I replaced it to save wear on the front and rear fluid filled
engine mounts which are more expensive and more difficult to replace.
I changed the thermostat and radiator cap as precautionary measures.
Cheap insurance.
Alternator brushes are usually questionable at 150k, so I just changed
them a bit early. They're cheap, and I was doing all the other work at
that time.
The accessory drive belts looked fine, but seemed like a good idea to
change them when they were removed anyway.
The timing belt cover gasket was missing several pieces - probably from
a prior mechanic. These seal the cover to keep out dirt and water.
I discovered the chassis mounting bolts are accessed by removing the
front undercover. One was a bit loose.
I checked the ignition timing because I removed the distributor
changing the O ring, and despite my paint marks, couldn't be exactly
sure of position.
I changed the fuel filter as precautionary.
Same with the spark plug wires, cap and rotor. Did them at the same
time as the spark plugs. My thinking was it's going to be 180k before I
look at these again.

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Old 13 Jul 2006, 11:13 am   #8 (permalink)
Daniel
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Default Re: 60,000 miles service for a 1995 camry

Pszemol wrote:
>
> You have it done because you had to do it (due to a failure)
> or you just replaced non-leaking gaskets and other things
> just because you had nothing better to do over the weekend ? ;-)


===============
Forgot to mention, both idlers made noise when turned by hand, so I was
glad I already had the new parts.
There was a small amount of seepage around the oil pump and crankshaft.
Clearly it wasn't going to improve.

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Old 14 Jul 2006, 01:55 am   #9 (permalink)
johngdole@hotmail.com
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Default Re: 60,000 miles service for a 1995 camry

While you are in there, you should get the idlers replaced. The
tensioner is usually the worse of the two, becoming loose and starting
to make noise. The idler in the 4-cyl may still be in good shape for
another 60K miles, but it usually starts to dry up. The dealer will
likely add another $200-250 for the idlers. Should you should ask to
get a quote for the *complete package*.

(So you get new coolant with any $200 water pump replacement, and then
have to pay another $100 to have it completely flushed out? Sounds like
a reason for double charging. Besides, I never thought there is a need
to flush a properly maintained, prestine cooling system. )

> Here are some prices I got from a chicagoland toyota dealership:
>
> timing belt replacement = $270
> water pump replacement (together with t-belt) ~ $200
> complete transmission fluid replacement (flush) = $130
> fuel system sevice (trotle+injectors) = $150
> complete cooling system flush = $100
> platinium spark plugs replacement = $90
> engine oil/filter change = $30
>
> 30000 miles service costs like $375 and the only things
> done are oil/filter change, coolant and transmission.
> The rest are "inspections" only (like exhaust, lights, etc).
> It does not include major things like timing belt nor the water pump.
>
> 60000 miles service is the same as 30000 except it does
> include sparkplug replacement and cost about $100 more...


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Old 15 Jul 2006, 12:10 am   #10 (permalink)
Pszemol
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Default Re: 60,000 miles service for a 1995 camry

<johngdole@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1152860136.214596.307270@75g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> While you are in there, you should get the idlers replaced. The
> tensioner is usually the worse of the two, becoming loose and starting
> to make noise. The idler in the 4-cyl may still be in good shape for
> another 60K miles, but it usually starts to dry up. The dealer will
> likely add another $200-250 for the idlers. Should you should ask to
> get a quote for the *complete package*.


Yes, they talked me into replacing idlers :-)

> (So you get new coolant with any $200 water pump replacement, and then
> have to pay another $100 to have it completely flushed out? Sounds like
> a reason for double charging. Besides, I never thought there is a need
> to flush a properly maintained, prestine cooling system. )


Exactly, that is why I did not ask for the coolant flush and did not request
a generic "60000 miles maintenance" but itemized repairs instead...
I figured, with a new water pump I will get the system flushed anyway.
At least from the engine compartment if not from the radiator...

So what I actually got this time at the dealer was (a quote from their invoice):

- R&R water pump + thermostate $52 (1/2 h. labor)
- water pump assembly $121.14
- antifreeze gallon $19.26
- thermostat $23.16


- change motor oil and filter, top off fluids $15
- oil filter $5.41
- motor oil $8.00
- gasket $1.00


- 4 cylinder timming belt $190.92
- timming belt $44.71
- 13505-74011 idler sub-assem $115.74
- 13503-63011 idler sub-assem $69.04
- belt, v, p/s, vane pmp $18.58
- v-belt $29.72


- R&R rear sway bar bushings $104 (1 h. labor)
- stabilizer bushing 2x 22.40 $44.80


- minor 4 cylinder tune up $52 (1/2 h. labor)
- 90919-01178-83 spark plug 4 x 8.52 $34.08


- misc variable coupon -$59
- misc variable coupon -$41
- misc shop supplies/env. waste disposal $10

TOTALS:

labor $413.92
parts $534.64
misc -$90.00
total charges $858.56
sales tax $41.44
__________________
bottom line $900.00

Suprisingly even number - they probably started from $900 and work
back the charges to keep the total like this - no way they get 900 even
to a single penny by a random luck... :-))))

Anyway, back to the important stuff...
They talked me out of doing the transmission flush. The reason given
was that the last time flush was done 60000 miles and 3 long years ago
and the fluid shows brown/gray color. This color means the clutch plates (?)
are worn, and replacing the fluid will cause transmission to slip... and
need a costly rebuild :-((( That was sad news, since I like my camry...
Is it really true what they said about the fluid color and these worn clutch plates?
How much would a transmission rebuild cost ?

I guess nothing will last forever... but 211 000 miles is pretty good for an
original transmission and it should still last a little before starts slipping anyway ;-)

Other recomendations from the shop are to replace spark plug wires,
distributor cap, rotor and PCV valve... They told me I have the original
spark plug wires - and this seems to be true - got this camry when it
was 3 years old and 47000 miles - I assume it had original wires then
and I have never had a need to replace them... Hard to believe, but these
wires lasted 11 years and 211000 miles and they are still working...

I had also recomended to do "fuel system service" ($169.95) which is
fuel injectors and trottle body cleaning. Was not sure if it is worth this
much, so I hold from doing fuel system service at this time...
What is your opinion about this service ?

The car runs much better now... What is little worrying is some whistling
noice coming from the passenger side of the hood... like the new rubber
belts or new water pump making new noises I did not hear before...

Replacing spark plugs did not help with an old problem I had: starting
the warm car causes low idle speed - like 400-500 rpms, regardless
of the possition of the transmission gears, including neutral...
It usually goes away after rev-ing up the engine multiple of times or
running couple of miles. What could be causing low idle speed when
the engine is started warm/hot ?
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