distributor on '99 camry?

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Old 22 Aug 2006, 10:33 am   #1 (permalink)
mrdarrett@gmail.com
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Default distributor on '99 camry?

On my wife's 99 camry, I couldn't find a distributor there - the spark
plug wires seem to go to these funny looking boxes about an inch and a
half square.

Is this the "waste spark system"? How does this work? Are they
computer-controlled?

Thanks,

Michael

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Old 22 Aug 2006, 08:46 pm   #2 (permalink)
Paul A
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Default Re: distributor on '99 camry?


> On my wife's 99 camry, I couldn't find a distributor there - the spark
> plug wires seem to go to these funny looking boxes about an inch and a
> half square.
>
> Is this the "waste spark system"? How does this work? Are they
> computer-controlled?
>



No distributor.

Each "funny box" is a coil feeding 2 cylinders -- both get spark at the same
time,
one has compressed air/fuel to ignite, the other is at the end of the
exhaust stroke,
so that spark is wasted.

All computer controlled (of course)

If you use your e-mail address in a newsgroup you are just asking for tons
of spam.


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Old 22 Aug 2006, 10:34 pm   #3 (permalink)
mrdarrett@gmail.com
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Default Re: distributor on '99 camry?


Paul A wrote:
> > On my wife's 99 camry, I couldn't find a distributor there - the spark
> > plug wires seem to go to these funny looking boxes about an inch and a
> > half square.
> >
> > Is this the "waste spark system"? How does this work? Are they
> > computer-controlled?
> >

>
>
> No distributor.
>
> Each "funny box" is a coil feeding 2 cylinders -- both get spark at the same
> time,
> one has compressed air/fuel to ignite, the other is at the end of the
> exhaust stroke,
> so that spark is wasted.
>
> All computer controlled (of course)


Thanks!

Any seals to wear out...? Are they tied to the camshaft?


> If you use your e-mail address in a newsgroup you are just asking for tons
> of spam.



Yes, I know. I made the mistake once of posting with my real email
(groups.google makes this mistake really easy to make), instead of my
spam collector, then just decided to give up maintaining two email
systems.

Google mail does a good job of segregating junk mail, though.

Michael

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Old 25 Aug 2006, 02:09 pm   #4 (permalink)
johngdole@hotmail.com
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Default Re: distributor on '99 camry?

Yes, that generation uses the waste spark system. That's why the Bosch
Platinums with the thin center electrodes should not be used on the
waste spark system. The deposits from the ground electrodes stick to
the center electrodes and foul up the plugs, even though the plugs work
well and reach self cleaning temperatures fast in traditional systems.


The current passes one plug from the center to the ground electrode and
then through the cylinder head to the other plug in the loop; it then
goes from the ground electrode to the center electrode on that plug;
finally the current makes its way back to the coil thus completing the
circuit. The spark plugs fire at twice the ignition rate, halving their
useful life.

The waste spark system stinks. So Toyota changed back to the
traditional system. It helps not to have plugs with half the service
life of your competitors' plugs.



mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> On my wife's 99 camry, I couldn't find a distributor there - the spark
> plug wires seem to go to these funny looking boxes about an inch and a
> half square.
>
> Is this the "waste spark system"? How does this work? Are they
> computer-controlled?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael


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Old 25 Aug 2006, 05:17 pm   #5 (permalink)
mrdarrett@gmail.com
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Default Re: distributor on '99 camry?


johngdole@hotmail.com wrote:
> Yes, that generation uses the waste spark system. That's why the Bosch
> Platinums with the thin center electrodes should not be used on the
> waste spark system. The deposits from the ground electrodes stick to
> the center electrodes and foul up the plugs, even though the plugs work
> well and reach self cleaning temperatures fast in traditional systems.


So using Bosch plugs would do what - short-circuit the electrodes, and
fail to ignite, resulting in loss of power...?

I've been using Bosch dual-platinum plugs in my wife's '99 camry, no
problems so far - been about 5k miles so far. I'm open to changing the
spark plugs (myself) more often, if necessary - no problem. I think I
paid about $2.50/plug (Bosch). Just, $13/spark plug (NGK) is a bit
much, I think. Even if I have to change out the spark plugs 4x as
often as the NGKs, I'd still come out ahead financially.

Assuming no engine damage due to the cheaper plugs, of course.

Thanks,

Michael

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Old 28 Aug 2006, 01:31 am   #6 (permalink)
johngdole@hotmail.com
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Default Re: distributor on '99 camry?

mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> So using Bosch plugs would do what - short-circuit the electrodes, and
> fail to ignite, resulting in loss of power...?


The nickel from the ground electrode gets transferred to the center
platinum electrode with each spark (the platinum gets a nickel
plating). This reduces spark efficiency. But if yours work then I guess
no problem, the Bosch x2 with thicker center electrode is better than
the single ground electrode one. Bosch plugs reportedly work great in
their Motronic engine control systems, the first series-produced
digitial engine control system in the world.

I don't use the NGK $13 double ground spark plug. No way $$$. And
definitely no Denso spark plugs. I use the NGK Iridium from the local
NAPA store for $7.99. I change them at 30K miles. You get NGK's thicker
"Laser Iridium" with platinum ground electrode $9.99 for 60K mile
service in waste spark systems (120K mile in traditional systems). I
don't believe in the 60K or 120K mile spark plug interval. It's my
personal preference to change them at 30K miles.

That was only what I heard about waste spark systems. Haven't tried
anything else since I started on NGK Iridiums. But you're right, if
Bosch x2 works for you, at $2.50, go for them.

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/product...420&country=US



>
> I've been using Bosch dual-platinum plugs in my wife's '99 camry, no
> problems so far - been about 5k miles so far. I'm open to changing the
> spark plugs (myself) more often, if necessary - no problem. I think I
> paid about $2.50/plug (Bosch). Just, $13/spark plug (NGK) is a bit
> much, I think. Even if I have to change out the spark plugs 4x as
> often as the NGKs, I'd still come out ahead financially.
>
> Assuming no engine damage due to the cheaper plugs, of course.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael


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Old 28 Aug 2006, 10:25 am   #7 (permalink)
mrdarrett@gmail.com
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Default Re: distributor on '99 camry?


johngdole@hotmail.com wrote:
> mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> > So using Bosch plugs would do what - short-circuit the electrodes, and
> > fail to ignite, resulting in loss of power...?

>
> The nickel from the ground electrode gets transferred to the center
> platinum electrode with each spark (the platinum gets a nickel
> plating). This reduces spark efficiency. But if yours work then I guess
> no problem, the Bosch x2 with thicker center electrode is better than
> the single ground electrode one. Bosch plugs reportedly work great in
> their Motronic engine control systems, the first series-produced
> digitial engine control system in the world.


Oh ok. As long as no major engine damage would result... ;-)

I was tempted to try the Bosch 4-electrode plug... that one looks
really pretty.


> I don't use the NGK $13 double ground spark plug. No way $$$. And
> definitely no Denso spark plugs. I use the NGK Iridium from the local
> NAPA store for $7.99. I change them at 30K miles. You get NGK's thicker
> "Laser Iridium" with platinum ground electrode $9.99 for 60K mile
> service in waste spark systems (120K mile in traditional systems). I
> don't believe in the 60K or 120K mile spark plug interval. It's my
> personal preference to change them at 30K miles.


Ooh, $8/plug! Much better than $13/plug. (At first, when I bought the
$13 plugs, I thought that was for a set of 4. Imagine my surprise when
the total bill with tax came to about $60. When I came home, the wife
chewed me out, and I returned the plugs a couple days later. ;-)


> That was only what I heard about waste spark systems. Haven't tried
> anything else since I started on NGK Iridiums. But you're right, if
> Bosch x2 works for you, at $2.50, go for them.
>
> http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/product...420&country=US


You'd think that with a computer-controlled ignition system, Toyota
could figure out how to make one spark plug fire at a time... sigh.

Thanks for the info

Michael

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Old 29 Aug 2006, 11:12 pm   #8 (permalink)
johngdole@hotmail.com
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Default Re: distributor on '99 camry?


mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> Oh ok. As long as no major engine damage would result... ;-)
>
> I was tempted to try the Bosch 4-electrode plug... that one looks
> really pretty.


Well I guess the Bosch platinums work OK in waste spark systems, at
least better than the early years.

The Bosch site does list these plugs (Platinum x1, x2, x4) for the
application so it's OK. The Iridiums electrodes are simialr to the
Bosch thin platinums (therefore both should be able to fire lean
mixtures and reach self cleaning temperatures fast), except the Iridium
electrode is not wrapped by the insulator tip like Bosch's. The Bosch
x2 and x4's flame fronts spread flat out toward the ground electrodes
and face the entire combustion chamber unobstructed. Multi
side-electrode plugs are better in this regard.

4303 PLATINUM 2 Do not gap. Gap is not adjustable.
4201 PLATINUM GAP=0.044"
7556 SUPER GAP=0.044"; Original equipment is platinum or other precious
metal.
4417 PLATINUM+4 Do not gap. Gap is not adjustable.

> Ooh, $8/plug! Much better than $13/plug. (At first, when I bought the
> $13 plugs, I thought that was for a set of 4. Imagine my surprise when
> the total bill with tax came to about $60. When I came home, the wife
> chewed me out, and I returned the plugs a couple days later. ;-)


Yeah, I know, but the Iridiums are fine plugs, and before that I almost
used the NGK G-Power platinums. But I guess I'll try the Bosch
platinums x2 or x4 next time both have thicker electrodes than the x1.
Thanks.

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