A/C compressor clutch problem (1995)

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06 Sep 2006, 02:50 pm   #1 (permalink)
Pszemol
Guest
  • Posts: n/a
  • User Status:


Default A/C compressor clutch problem (1995)

Camry 1995 with 2,2 liter engine and 214 thousand miles.

I was reporting here intermittent problems with my air
condition system - I had the light on the a/c button
blinking and the system would shut itself off...

We were not sure what is the reason. Finally it is more
consistent now to the point I am unable to get it going
at all. As soon I turn it on, it tries to work and
shortly after that it gives up and the light is blinking...

I opened the hood and ask my very nice female "assistant"
to turn the a/c button when I watched the compressor clutch.
I noticed that the internal wheel inside the clutch does
not turn as fast as the external pulley. I think this is
the reason for the speed sensor giving wrong signal and
the protection kicks in - system turns itself off...

I think I have to deal with one of the following scenarios:
1. clutch is misadjusted and does not engage fully enough
2. clutch is worn out and does not engage fully enough
3. compressor is worn out and gives too much of resistance.

Which scenario is the most likely ?
Is there a diagnostic method to differentiate between
clutch and compressor or you just replace both ?

On a side note, I had to loose the belt a little after
guys in Toyota dealership tighten it way too much...
It was so tight that the compressor pulley looked bend
towards the engine and the compressor was slowly turning
even when the compressor clutch was not engaged...
That would help develop scenario #2 prematurely.

Any comments/suggestions ?
What is your experience in this repair situation ?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06 Sep 2006, 07:28 pm   #2 (permalink)
mac1833
Guest
  • Posts: n/a
  • User Status:


Default Re: A/C compressor clutch problem (1995)

if a belt is overtight it burns out the bearings in components. an
alternator, waterpump, AC COMPRESSOR. Its prob fried. Your friendly
neighborhood toyota dealer should replace it for free......problem is
proving it. do you have proof from a repair service that it was too
tight...cause if you do....you have a free compressor.

  Reply With Quote
Old 07 Sep 2006, 11:00 am   #3 (permalink)
Pszemol
Guest
  • Posts: n/a
  • User Status:


Default Re: A/C compressor clutch problem (1995)

"mac1833" <mcdanielport@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:4042e59f978ea850e45001f85fd1a5c5@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> if a belt is overtight it burns out the bearings in components. an
> alternator, waterpump, AC COMPRESSOR. Its prob fried. Your friendly
> neighborhood toyota dealer should replace it for free......problem is
> proving it. do you have proof from a repair service that it was too
> tight...cause if you do....you have a free compressor.


I cannot prove anything. I am not sure if anybody can...
When your car leaves the toyota you can do bad things to
your belts and than blame toyota to get some money...
I do not think anybody could have a strong case against
any repair shop. I had a problems with simple tire repair,
where some other guys just use air-tools to put back
lug nuts and stripping the threads - how can I prove
their wrong doing ? They can always defend themselves
that they did the job right, but next day I had a flat
tire and broke the treads myself - how can I prove anything?
Forget it!

But this is not the point. I need to fix my car and not
pay a fortune. Possibly do it myself, if you help me
diagnose the problem. Anybody with ideas/recomendation ?
  Reply With Quote
Old 07 Sep 2006, 07:50 pm   #4 (permalink)
mac1833
Guest
  • Posts: n/a
  • User Status:


Default Re: A/C compressor clutch problem (1995)

not something you want to do yourself....you need the right equiptment. you
need to replace your compressor, like i said in the last post...I was
trying to help you not foot the bill. The way you prove things in
automotive is......don't touch anything yourself....if you felt the belt
was overtight you take it to a shop have them check it and if that is the
case....its in writing. you take that to the dealer and you have a
case....its not hard or impossible. Anyway...replace your compressor and
your problem is solved. Info from a certified tech...MACS certified
AC...just trying to help you man.Good luck

  Reply With Quote
Old 08 Sep 2006, 12:17 am   #5 (permalink)
Pszemol
Guest
  • Posts: n/a
  • User Status:


Default Re: A/C compressor clutch problem (1995)

"mac1833" <mcdanielport@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:f87d10e5f0f7edfc79f5ca37a6bf0e59@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> not something you want to do yourself....you need the right equiptment.
> you need to replace your compressor, like i said in the last post...I was
> trying to help you not foot the bill. The way you prove things in
> automotive is......don't touch anything yourself....if you felt the belt
> was overtight you take it to a shop have them check it and if that is the
> case....its in writing. you take that to the dealer and you have a
> case....its not hard or impossible. Anyway...replace your compressor and
> your problem is solved. Info from a certified tech...MACS certified
> AC...just trying to help you man.Good luck


I know you tried to help and I appreciate this...

Let me ask you a practical question: is it possible to avoid
the need for discharge/recharge the system assuming only
clutch needs to be replaced and the compressor is still fine ?

I checked the service manual and they recomend removing
the compressor for clutch replacement - and of course,
then the system needs to be evacuated and recharged...
I noticed that the compressor is linked with the rest of
the A/C system with two flexible hoses. Maybe I could save
myself some troubles with discharge/recharge if I be able
to remove clutch without disconnecting compressor hoses ?
Just unscrew compressor from the engine but let it stay
connected with hoses...

I know I need special tools (PRESSURE PLATE REMOVER and
MAGNETIC CLUTCH STOPPER), I hope I can purchase them at
the toyota dealership, but it is doable at all - or not ? :-)))
  Reply With Quote
Old 08 Sep 2006, 12:27 pm   #6 (permalink)
Daniel
Guest
  • Posts: n/a
  • User Status:


Default Re: A/C compressor clutch problem (1995)

Pszemol wrote:
> I checked the service manual and they recomend removing
> the compressor for clutch replacement

================================
I copied this from another newsgroup long ago. Let us know if this
works for you. (not my words):

You forget to mantion one more item, the A/C clutch is slipping.
The A/C AMP senses this and disengages the A/C clutch and flashes
the light. This is usually caused by the wearing down of the
clutch surfaces and the gap becomes too wide. Fortunately, the
gap can be adjusted by removing shims from the shaft of the
compressor where the clutch plate is attached to. Measure the
gap using a dial indicator, feeler gauge would not work with
this compressor because the clutch plate is recessed under the
pulley. Using a jumper wire to connect the magnetic coil to the
battery to engage the clutch if you work alone. The normal range of
the gap is 20mils +/-5mils.

You can remove the compressor without disconnecting the hoses,
but the radiator hose above it has to be disconnected so that
the compressor can be lifted up to gain access to the clutch
plate screw. Drain the radiator fluid first. Use wires to hold the
compressor with the clutch plate facing upwards. Use a locking plier
or C-clamp to hold the clutch plate to the pulley to prevent it
from turning when you unscrew the center bolt. Becareful when lifting
the clutch plate out not to loose any of the shims.

If you measured the gap at 40mils, just take off the number of shims
close to 20mils and reinstall them. Now you gap should be 20mils.
Verify this with the dial indicator before you put every thing back.

If you find deep grooves on the clutch plate surfaces, it is better
to replace clutch completely. The clutch assembly should not cost
more than $70 at you local Pep-Boy store.

  Reply With Quote
Old 08 Sep 2006, 05:27 pm   #7 (permalink)
Pszemol
Guest
  • Posts: n/a
  • User Status:


Default Re: A/C compressor clutch problem (1995)

"Daniel" <nospampls2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1157736449.079736.55990@m73g2000cwd.googlegro ups.com...
> You forget to mantion one more item, the A/C clutch is slipping.
> The A/C AMP senses this and disengages the A/C clutch and flashes
> the light. This is usually caused by the wearing down of the
> clutch surfaces and the gap becomes too wide. Fortunately, the
> gap can be adjusted by removing shims from the shaft of the
> compressor where the clutch plate is attached to. Measure the
> gap using a dial indicator, feeler gauge would not work with
> this compressor because the clutch plate is recessed under the
> pulley. Using a jumper wire to connect the magnetic coil to the
> battery to engage the clutch if you work alone. The normal range of
> the gap is 20mils +/-5mils.
>
> You can remove the compressor without disconnecting the hoses,
> but the radiator hose above it has to be disconnected so that
> the compressor can be lifted up to gain access to the clutch
> plate screw. Drain the radiator fluid first. Use wires to hold the
> compressor with the clutch plate facing upwards. Use a locking plier
> or C-clamp to hold the clutch plate to the pulley to prevent it
> from turning when you unscrew the center bolt. Becareful when lifting
> the clutch plate out not to loose any of the shims.
>
> If you measured the gap at 40mils, just take off the number of shims
> close to 20mils and reinstall them. Now you gap should be 20mils.
> Verify this with the dial indicator before you put every thing back.
>
> If you find deep grooves on the clutch plate surfaces, it is better
> to replace clutch completely. The clutch assembly should not cost
> more than $70 at you local Pep-Boy store.



WOW - this sounds totally doable! I am glad I asked...
Thank you, Daniel.

I have one more subject to ask:
How exactly does this clutch work... ??
It is not clear from the pictures.

I understant there is a stator, which is an electromagnet coil.
What exactly happens when the coil gets energized ?
Does it move pressure plate towards the pulley (rotor)?
Does the plate touch the pulley ? Is this gap 20 mils when
the coil is energized ? If so, the plate does not touch the pulley.
How is the pressure plate sliding on the shaft ? Does it move
with the whole shaft slightly inside the compressor or does
it move freely on the shaft ?
  Reply With Quote
Old 09 Sep 2006, 06:32 pm   #8 (permalink)
Pszemol
Guest
  • Posts: n/a
  • User Status:


Default Re: A/C compressor clutch problem (1995)

"Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in message news:eds96f.qc0.0@poczta.onet.pl...
> I have one more subject to ask:
> How exactly does this clutch work... ??
> It is not clear from the pictures.


Ok, I was too curious to wait for you guys here passively :-)

I just returned from a "you-pull-the-part" junkyard
and I was able to find my model year camry there
with an A/C compressor so I see how it works now!

The pressure plate is actually two pieces of metal
connected with a rubber filling. So the center piece
is fixed to the compressor shaft permanently
but the exterior side of the pressure plate can
bend toward the pulley and touch it metal-to-metal
causing them to link togeter and the belt is turning
the compressor... Pretty simple!

Knowing better how it actually works I decided to look
again how this pressure plate moves in my car...
Here is what I saw:

When the a/c system cycles on and off I can see the
pulley is actually TILTED toward the force the belt exerts
when the a/c is off. When the a/c clutch is on, the pulley
(rotor) is embraced by the pressure plate and is
strighten... I can tell the belt is still tensioned too much
or the pulley bearings are damaged and the wheel is
whobbling. This is probably causing the clutch to work
unreliably and sometimes it does not grasp the wheel.

I will see tomorrow what is happening.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10 Sep 2006, 05:47 pm   #9 (permalink)
Pszemol
Guest
  • Posts: n/a
  • User Status:


Default Re: A/C compressor clutch problem (1995)

"Daniel" <nospampls2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1157736449.079736.55990@m73g2000cwd.googlegro ups.com...
> You forget to mantion one more item, the A/C clutch is slipping.
> The A/C AMP senses this and disengages the A/C clutch and flashes
> the light. This is usually caused by the wearing down of the
> clutch surfaces and the gap becomes too wide. Fortunately, the
> gap can be adjusted by removing shims from the shaft of the
> compressor where the clutch plate is attached to. Measure the
> gap using a dial indicator, feeler gauge would not work with
> this compressor because the clutch plate is recessed under the
> pulley. Using a jumper wire to connect the magnetic coil to the
> battery to engage the clutch if you work alone. The normal range of
> the gap is 20mils +/-5mils.
>
> You can remove the compressor without disconnecting the hoses,
> but the radiator hose above it has to be disconnected so that
> the compressor can be lifted up to gain access to the clutch
> plate screw. Drain the radiator fluid first. Use wires to hold the
> compressor with the clutch plate facing upwards. Use a locking plier
> or C-clamp to hold the clutch plate to the pulley to prevent it
> from turning when you unscrew the center bolt. Becareful when lifting
> the clutch plate out not to loose any of the shims.
>
> If you measured the gap at 40mils, just take off the number of shims
> close to 20mils and reinstall them. Now you gap should be 20mils.
> Verify this with the dial indicator before you put every thing back.
>
> If you find deep grooves on the clutch plate surfaces, it is better
> to replace clutch completely. The clutch assembly should not cost
> more than $70 at you local Pep-Boy store.


OK, I worked today on this a/c problem. Here is what I have found.
The first snap ring, the one which is holding the pulley, was broken
in half and two loose pieces where floating there under the pressure
plate. That was bad discovery but I still had the hope that replacing
the ring will solve the problem.

Unfortunatelly, removing the pulley shown another, more serious issue.
It was not only the snap ring which was broken, but also the groove
it was supposed to be sitting in! The groove was made in the body
of the compressor (made of very fragile aluminium! why? why? why?).

So the clutch rotor (the pulley) cannot be secured with new ring.

Since I have not planed a compressor replacement I put everything
back as it was there, except I have removed damaged ring and
the pieces which fell off the aluminium groove. The pulley is hold
in place only by the pressure plate, as it was before I opened it...

Pulley does rotate freely because the bearings are still good. It jus
does not sit right because it is not secured by any snap ring there.

So the end of story is that the car works, even tried A/C and the
clutch engaged normally, streightening the pulley, as it was doing
before. Of course I am worried now to drive this car - now I know
that everything can pull apart in an instant...

So I am quite unhappy because I need to replace compressor.

Thank you guys anyway for your help here in the group.
  Reply With Quote

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:22 am.

Attribution:
Autoblog
Powered by Yahoo Answers



ToyotaLexusForum.com is an unofficial community for car enthusiasts. ToyotaLexusForum.com is not affiliated with Toyota Motor Corporation in any way.
Toyota Motor Corporation does not sponsor, support, or endorse ToyotaLexusForum.com in any way.
Copyright/trademark/sales mark infringements are not intended or implied.