After market brake experts?

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Old 28 Sep 2006, 06:08 pm   #1 (permalink)
Daniel
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Default After market brake experts?

Have replaced most all brake components front and rear: rotors, pads,
fit kit, shims, flex lines, disassembled, cleaned and properly
lubricated the rear drum brake components, removed the glaze,
everything is operating very smoothly and correctly unless I try
braking with force from high speed where the brakes work but they sort
of make a shuddering sound.
I wonder if I'm just exceeding the capacity of the stock brake
components under certain conditions.

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Old 28 Sep 2006, 08:30 pm   #2 (permalink)
Wolfgang
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Default Re: After market brake experts?

Do you have the ABS brake system? If XLE you probably do. Did you use the
shims and orange/blue goop to hold them on front pads. Lubricate the pad
pins? Bleed lines?

"Daniel" <nospampls2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1159484886.559447.245460@i42g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> Have replaced most all brake components front and rear: rotors, pads,
> fit kit, shims, flex lines, disassembled, cleaned and properly
> lubricated the rear drum brake components, removed the glaze,
> everything is operating very smoothly and correctly unless I try
> braking with force from high speed where the brakes work but they sort
> of make a shuddering sound.
> I wonder if I'm just exceeding the capacity of the stock brake
> components under certain conditions.
>



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Old 29 Sep 2006, 01:51 am   #3 (permalink)
johngdole@hotmail.com
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Default Re: After market brake experts?

Just the shuddering growling sound? No wheel vibration? What's the
condition the calipers are in?

Daniel wrote:
> Have replaced most all brake components front and rear: rotors, pads,
> fit kit, shims, flex lines, disassembled, cleaned and properly
> lubricated the rear drum brake components, removed the glaze,
> everything is operating very smoothly and correctly unless I try
> braking with force from high speed where the brakes work but they sort
> of make a shuddering sound.
> I wonder if I'm just exceeding the capacity of the stock brake
> components under certain conditions.


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Old 29 Sep 2006, 11:35 am   #4 (permalink)
Daniel
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Default Re: After market brake experts?

Wolfgang wrote:
> Do you have the ABS brake system? If XLE you probably do. Did you use the
> shims and orange/blue goop to hold them on front pads. Lubricate the pad
> pins? Bleed lines?

===============
No ABS.
New shims used synthetic caliper grease.
Replaced pins with proper lubrication and replaced rubber boots.
Bled all the brake lines since I also replaced the calpers and one
rigid rear brake line.

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Old 29 Sep 2006, 11:48 am   #5 (permalink)
Daniel
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Default Re: After market brake experts?

johngdole@hotmail.com wrote:
> Just the shuddering growling sound? No wheel vibration? What's the
> condition the calipers are in?

==================
Replaced calipers with Toyota remanufactured "new".
I'm not really sure what's going on with this sound.
Feels like the pads are shuddering against the rotors. Don't think I'm
feeling any vibration at the brake pedal.
Checked for excessive runout with a dial indicator at the axle hub and
disk rotors, both within spec. Rotors were new.
I'm generally talking fairly high speed, -- at high speed under very
firm braking there's a shuddering noise that just doesn't sound right.
I lift off the brake pedal, then reapply and it returns, unless I'm
braking moderately, then no problem.
In reassembling the brakes every fastener was torqued to the correct
spec - really that's only the torque plate and sliding pins, so it's
not something loose, and the fit kit included new spring clips to hold
the pads in place.
I wonder if there's any possibility I got those reversed. The spring
clips are at the top, and the flat edge at the bottom of the caliper. I
tried to be very careful to reassemble them as removed and seemed to
match the drawing in the manual.
Wondered if I may be getting into the category of "racing" brake pads,
and stock Camry brakes just aren't designed to be driven extra hard.
Brake pad out gassing at extreme load perhaps.
Perhaps the braking sound is transmitted through the strut mounts. I
can hear a whooshing sound even when braking from 30 mph, but it is
smooth and unobtrusive.
Try changing to some higher performance pads?

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Old 29 Sep 2006, 04:30 pm   #6 (permalink)
johngdole@hotmail.com
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Default Re: After market brake experts?

I came across one car with very similar problem once. The "growl"
happened only from moderate/hard braking from high speeds. Any light
application won't cause the noise. It was a real mystery but I didn't
have the chance to work on that one.

Racing pads, like the Hawk Carbon Metallic, Raybestos SPS Ceramic, EBC
Yellow/Red Stuffs, can generate a lot of heat with their high
coefficients of friction but they hardly ever fade -- they'll only
glaze/warp substandard rotors in repeated heavy use.

On single-piston version of the caliper the flat pad supports do look
like belong to the bottom.
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBr...3d8013f8bf.jsp

My guess is that caliper pistons or pins may not be gliding the best
they can so the calipers are not grabbing with full force. When you
retract the piston, you should be able to use two fingers turning the
(Harbor Freight) disc pad tool with ease. Almost no effort at all.
That's why I asked about the condition of the calipers. I'd think the
"new" rebults should give no problems with the piston sticking. In
fact, the piston should retract slightly (I'd say about 1/16") merely
with your hand pulling on the caliper so it'll glide back and forth on
the pins.

The caliper pin with the rubber bushing is install on the bottom on
4-cyls. The bushing sometimes causes the pin to stick. After you break
it free it will glide just fine but will stick again in a few mintues.
But I assume two of these pin bushings were replaced along with four
pin boots with your rebuilt calipers.

I assume you bought all these parts from Toyota?



Daniel wrote:
> Replaced calipers with Toyota remanufactured "new".
> I'm not really sure what's going on with this sound.
> Feels like the pads are shuddering against the rotors. Don't think I'm
> feeling any vibration at the brake pedal.
> Checked for excessive runout with a dial indicator at the axle hub and
> disk rotors, both within spec. Rotors were new.
> I'm generally talking fairly high speed, -- at high speed under very
> firm braking there's a shuddering noise that just doesn't sound right.
> I lift off the brake pedal, then reapply and it returns, unless I'm
> braking moderately, then no problem.
> In reassembling the brakes every fastener was torqued to the correct
> spec - really that's only the torque plate and sliding pins, so it's
> not something loose, and the fit kit included new spring clips to hold
> the pads in place.
> I wonder if there's any possibility I got those reversed. The spring
> clips are at the top, and the flat edge at the bottom of the caliper. I
> tried to be very careful to reassemble them as removed and seemed to
> match the drawing in the manual.
> Wondered if I may be getting into the category of "racing" brake pads,
> and stock Camry brakes just aren't designed to be driven extra hard.
> Brake pad out gassing at extreme load perhaps.
> Perhaps the braking sound is transmitted through the strut mounts. I
> can hear a whooshing sound even when braking from 30 mph, but it is
> smooth and unobtrusive.
> Try changing to some higher performance pads?


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Old 30 Sep 2006, 11:37 am   #7 (permalink)
Daniel
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Default Re: After market brake experts?

johngdole@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> The caliper pin with the rubber bushing is install on the bottom on
> 4-cyls. The bushing sometimes causes the pin to stick. After you break
> it free it will glide just fine but will stick again in a few mintues.
> But I assume two of these pin bushings were replaced along with four
> pin boots with your rebuilt calipers.
>
> I assume you bought all these parts from Toyota?

===============
Yes.
Toyota parts.
Also replaced the busings on the lower sliding pins.
The caliper pins were sliding beautifully when assembled.

I can only assume this is normal behaviour and on occasion I'm just
overloading the braking system by braking too hard from too high a
speed.

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Old 30 Sep 2006, 08:15 pm   #8 (permalink)
johngdole@hotmail.com
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Default Re: After market brake experts?

Noise from 30mph down probably doesn't help ones confidence. It's
probably hard to overload the brakes at that speed.

Difficult to think it's the combination of new pads and rotors, then if
the caliper piston and pins checked out. The only pads I've managed to
fade in normal driving are NBKs (NBK markings). Akebonos (AK markings)
can take a lot of beating. No NBKs for me.


Daniel wrote:
> Toyota parts.
> Also replaced the busings on the lower sliding pins.
> The caliper pins were sliding beautifully when assembled.
>
> I can only assume this is normal behaviour and on occasion I'm just
> overloading the braking system by braking too hard from too high a
> speed.


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