Drive shaft problem on '88 4-cyl.

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Old 03 Dec 2006, 10:46 pm   #1 (permalink)
geronimo
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Default Drive shaft problem on '88 4-cyl.

While changing the steering rack out, I noticed that the outer drive
shaft boots have both separated from the attachment at the wheel
u-joint end. So I guess there is no longer lube being held on the
u-joints which would cause them to wear rapidly? Also, I can move the
left one back and forth about an inch, while the RH one doesn't have
play. Do I need to replace the left one, or both? Or can I simply
replace the torn boot on the RH side?
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Old 03 Dec 2006, 11:57 pm   #2 (permalink)
toyomoho
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Default Re: Drive shaft problem on '88 4-cyl.


Unfortunately what happens when a boot is torn is the grease gets out
and dirt gets in. If the car has been running for any length of time
with the boots damaged, the odds are you will need to replace one or
the other, or both CV joints sooner then later.

I suggest if you can afford it, replace both axles. Prices on
non-Toyota dealer axles are reasonable. Check sites like
www.rockauto.com

If money is tight, suggest changing the LH and rebooting the RH. When
changing the boot, attempt to clean out any grime and old grease from
the joint and install new grease. I don’t think the outer joints
come apart. Mark everything on the inner joint so you can reassemble it
in the same relationship. Changing a boot can be a lot of work; you
might have to remove the inner boot then the axle shaft to slip on the
new boot.


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Old 04 Dec 2006, 02:53 pm   #3 (permalink)
geronimo
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Default Re: Drive shaft problem on '88 4-cyl.


Well, Rockauto has CV half-shaft assemblies. but I don't know if they
come with both inner and outer boots installed, or if they have to be
ordered separately. Also, there are two variations apparently used on
this car: bolt-on and plug-in inboard joint. Either type can be
ordered. The inboard boots are still intact, so I have no way of
knowing which type I need to order. Its my only car, so I have to have
the correct shafts ready to go when I tear into the car. I guess I
can't know which it has until I remove the shafts?

Also there are rubber bushings available for the drive shafts....could
this have worn out, causing the large amount of play on the left
driveshaft? I just had to replace worn-out bushings on the LH lower
control arm. thanks a lot, Geronimo



On Mon, 4 Dec 2006 00:57:58 -0500, toyomoho
<toyomoho.2ia1yb@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au> wrote:

>
>Unfortunately what happens when a boot is torn is the grease gets out
>and dirt gets in. If the car has been running for any length of time
>with the boots damaged, the odds are you will need to replace one or
>the other, or both CV joints sooner then later.
>
>I suggest if you can afford it, replace both axles. Prices on
>non-Toyota dealer axles are reasonable. Check sites like
>www.rockauto.com
>
>If money is tight, suggest changing the LH and rebooting the RH. When
>changing the boot, attempt to clean out any grime and old grease from
>the joint and install new grease. I don’t think the outer joints
>come apart. Mark everything on the inner joint so you can reassemble it
>in the same relationship. Changing a boot can be a lot of work; you
>might have to remove the inner boot then the axle shaft to slip on the
>new boot.


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Old 07 Dec 2006, 12:10 am   #4 (permalink)
johngdole@hotmail.com
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Default Re: Drive shaft problem on '88 4-cyl.

For half shafts I would buy from the local NAPA store. It's faster and
easier if there is warranty claim. Shipping from rockauto.com will cost
you. I think you get NAPA lifetime warranty on these. Check you local
store.

Now, are you talking about the ball joint at the end of the PS tie rod?
They can be loose before they separate. Or the CV joint of the half
shaft? Because I don't know a u-joint there. Just want to make sure.


geronimo wrote:
> While changing the steering rack out, I noticed that the outer drive
> shaft boots have both separated from the attachment at the wheel
> u-joint end. So I guess there is no longer lube being held on the
> u-joints which would cause them to wear rapidly? Also, I can move the
> left one back and forth about an inch, while the RH one doesn't have
> play. Do I need to replace the left one, or both? Or can I simply
> replace the torn boot on the RH side?


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Old 07 Dec 2006, 09:09 am   #5 (permalink)
geronimo
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Default Re: Drive shaft problem on '88 4-cyl.


Its not the steering ball joint at all. The steering rack as well as
tie rod ends/ball joints have just been replaced, there is NO play
there anymore. I am talking about the LH drive shaft or CV half-shaft
having a lot of play. Guess I used the wrong terminology, calling it a
U-joint. Anyway, If I grasp the LH or half-shaft near the LH wheel
(the boot had completely torn loose and had to be removed), you can
move it back and forth about an inch. I have never messed with CV
half-shafts before, but it looks like it terminates in a spline that
engages the wheel. So it is this spline and the whole shaft that is
loose. Might be causing some of the clunks and knocks (on LH side) I
am hearing. Can it get so worn that it disconnects from the wheel
entirely, and then tears up the wheel and/or transaxle? If so, then I
had better pre-emptively replace it. Thanks, Geronimo


On 6 Dec 2006 22:10:23 -0800, johngdole@hotmail.com wrote:

>For half shafts I would buy from the local NAPA store. It's faster and
>easier if there is warranty claim. Shipping from rockauto.com will cost
>you. I think you get NAPA lifetime warranty on these. Check you local
>store.
>
>Now, are you talking about the ball joint at the end of the PS tie rod?
>They can be loose before they separate. Or the CV joint of the half
>shaft? Because I don't know a u-joint there. Just want to make sure.
>
>
>geronimo wrote:
>> While changing the steering rack out, I noticed that the outer drive
>> shaft boots have both separated from the attachment at the wheel
>> u-joint end. So I guess there is no longer lube being held on the
>> u-joints which would cause them to wear rapidly? Also, I can move the
>> left one back and forth about an inch, while the RH one doesn't have
>> play. Do I need to replace the left one, or both? Or can I simply
>> replace the torn boot on the RH side?


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Old 07 Dec 2006, 07:45 pm   #6 (permalink)
johngdole@hotmail.com
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Default Re: Drive shaft problem on '88 4-cyl.

Ok, so it's the LH outter CV joint that's giving you problems. Worn CV
joints can cause the popping, growling and related noises as well as
steering pull. The CV ball bearings, bearing cage, and inner race wear
quickly without lube, or with some lube mixed with sand

The outter boot is usually the first to go because it's close to the
wheel and road. Generally speaking the boot on the inner CV joint
(attached to the tranny) is replaced with the outter boot at the
earliest sign of crack/leak. But it's probably way past re-booting now.
So instead of spending the time and boot kit to re-boot the half shaft,
using a rebuilt from your local NAPA is probably the best bet.

The splines on the outter end of the half shaft goes into the axle
carrier through the wheel bearing/axle hub. So in addition to the
bearings/cage/inner race of the outter joint, you may also want to
inspect the wheel bearing to make sure the play isn't there too.

Never heard of CV joint disconnecting (but ball joints yes). But I
guess all the popping noise and steering pull to one side is enough to
get people into shops early enough.

Daniel posted:

There's a secret. I went through the exact same thing.
You do need a good pry bar. I found one at NAPA that has been very
useful for a variety of other purposes. Cost around $30, one end was
tapered, the main point is that it was very sturdy - solid quality
construction. I also used a pipe as a "cheater bar" extension to gain
an overall length of apx. 18 - 24 inches.
But here is the secret.
The Factory Service Manual tells you to position the open ends of the
circlip at the bottom when installing the new axle.
If you have a replacement axle, look at the installed circlip and
notice how that when the gap is as the top, the solid part of the clip
hangs down slightly at the bottom, whereas when the gap is at the
bottom, the solid part is recessed into the groove near the end of the
axle at the top. That is the position you want the clip prior to
removing the axle.
The problem is that you cannot see the circlip on the installed axle
end inside the differential.
Here's how it is done.
Push the axle in slightly and rotate it apx. one third turn. Then pry
with enough force to see if it will move, but not such pressure that
you damage the clip.
If not successful, turn the axle another one third turn, push in
attempting to get that clip to drop into position, and pry again.
Then turn and try again.
You want that clip to slip into the proper position.
When you get it right, the axle will slip out relatively easily after
overcoming the initial resistance of the clip.




geronimo wrote:
> Its not the steering ball joint at all. The steering rack as well as
> tie rod ends/ball joints have just been replaced, there is NO play
> there anymore. I am talking about the LH drive shaft or CV half-shaft
> having a lot of play. Guess I used the wrong terminology, calling it a
> U-joint. Anyway, If I grasp the LH or half-shaft near the LH wheel
> (the boot had completely torn loose and had to be removed), you can
> move it back and forth about an inch. I have never messed with CV
> half-shafts before, but it looks like it terminates in a spline that
> engages the wheel. So it is this spline and the whole shaft that is
> loose. Might be causing some of the clunks and knocks (on LH side) I
> am hearing. Can it get so worn that it disconnects from the wheel
> entirely, and then tears up the wheel and/or transaxle? If so, then I
> had better pre-emptively replace it. Thanks, Geronimo
>


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Old 08 Dec 2006, 11:58 am   #7 (permalink)
Daniel
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Default Re: Drive shaft problem on '88 4-cyl.

geronimo wrote:
> If I grasp the LH or half-shaft near the LH wheel
> (the boot had completely torn loose and had to be removed), you can
> move it back and forth about an inch.

===============
There has to be some play there to allow adjustment in length as the
wheel moves up and down with the suspension.
The end that goes into the transaxle only moves a small amount,
retained by the circlip, and the outboard end is retained by the axle
nut, but there is play in the axle shaft. A brand new one will also
move back and forth about an inch.

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Old 10 Dec 2006, 07:57 pm   #8 (permalink)
toyomoho
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Default Re: Drive shaft problem on '88 4-cyl.


Most CV axles come with all joints and boots as a complete shaft ready
to install. If in doubt, call the vendors sales line. Rockauto used
to sell new (not rebuilt) axles that were under $80, a good deal! They
might still have this. Their shipping rates can add up IF you buy items
from multiple manufactures. This is because the items are dropped
shipped from the manufacturer. CY joint replacement is a common topic
at TN, a thread history search will find lots of hits this subject.

If the outer CV joint and spline is moving around, the nut on the end
of the spline shaft could be loose. Or as John states you have bad
bearings. You should be able to tell the differance by moving things
around as you look. Camry CV joints are not known to break, but given
you have very loose parts I would look into this ASAP. If a bad
bearing, replace it now as you will have things apart to change out the
axle. The bearing requires a press to install and remove. If you don't
have one, take the hub and knuckle assy down to an auto machine shop.

I now longer shop at NAPA for rebuilt parts. 2 bad starters in a row,
the car never got out of the driveway. The third time I want for a
Bosch. Two bad half shafts in a row, one was about ¼ inch too
short. Almost fit, but this was not good enough, the second one lasted
about 2-weeks before starting to click. Plus when returning defective
parts they have a Jekyll and Hyde attitude. The manager either gives
me the third degree, as it must be my fault. Or the sales staff states
they see defective rebuilt parts returned all the time (it is our
problem not yours) and here is you replacement sir, thank you. This is
at their Seattle distribution center.

When you do get an axle shaft, compare it very closely with the old one
for length, spline type, etc. If the store requires an exchange, take
the old one in and lay it next to the new one to compare. Or better
yet, when the job is complete, just take in the old shaft and get the
core charge back.


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