Remove the alternator, get 10% better fuel economy?

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Old 06 Oct 2011, 05:53 pm   #1 (permalink)
Michael
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Default Remove the alternator, get 10% better fuel economy?

I found this by accident (while looking for an article about a 16 year
old who modified his truck to run on batteries)

http://ecomodder.com/forum/fuel-econ...ifications.php

Alternator delete
Alternator deletes have been shown to increase fuel economy as much as
10%. However, extra deep-cycle batteries (and/or another form of
power) must be used as a replacement, and their cost may offset any
economic savings of reduced fuel consumption.

That said, if your regular starting battery is in need of replacement
anyway, it could be replaced with a good deep-cycle battery for not
too much more money.

Fascinating. I wonder how far you could go before the (deep cycle)
battery runs out of juice. Plus the battery on my '96 Camry is on its
last legs. Has to be a Deep Cycle (Marine?) battery, I know...

Could also be useful if someone needs a new alternator but doesn't
want to spend the money on a new one...?

Any comments?

Michael
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Old 06 Oct 2011, 06:08 pm   #2 (permalink)
Michael
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Default Re: Remove the alternator, get 10% better fuel economy?

On Oct 6, 5:05*pm, hachiroku <hacir...@e86.GTS> wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 15:53:11 -0700, Michael wrote:
> > I found this by accident (while looking for an article about a 16 year
> > old who modified his truck to run on batteries)

>
> >http://ecomodder.com/forum/fuel-econ...ifications.php

>
> > Alternator delete
> > Alternator deletes have been shown to increase fuel economy as much as
> > 10%. However, extra deep-cycle batteries (and/or another form of
> > power) must be used as a replacement, and their cost may offset any
> > economic savings of reduced fuel consumption.

>
> > That said, if your regular starting battery is in need of replacement
> > anyway, it could be replaced with a good deep-cycle battery for not
> > too much more money.

>
> > Fascinating. *I wonder how far you could go before the (deep cycle)
> > battery runs out of juice. *Plus the battery on my '96 Camry is on its
> > last legs. *Has to be a Deep Cycle (Marine?) battery, I know...

>
> > Could also be useful if someone needs a new alternator but doesn't
> > want to spend the money on a new one...?

>
> > Any comments?

>
> > Michael

>
> This has surfaced about 100 times in 10 years in this group.
>
> How are you going to power anything? You can use the radio, the heater,
> winsheild wipers, and wiht modern cars heavily computer dependant with
> electronic fuel injection, any battery will wear down rapidly.



Oh, wasn't aware it was so popular.

I would guess the number of starts would be the limiting factor due to
the huge starting currents. My '96 Camry doesn't have an electric
heater xD

12 mile commute to-and-from work... wonder if a deep-cycle battery has
enough juice to start up the motor a few times, run the spark plugs,
stereo and computer. Would have to charge the battery when I get home
of course.

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Old 06 Oct 2011, 06:17 pm   #3 (permalink)
Michael
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Default Re: Remove the alternator, get 10% better fuel economy?

On Oct 6, 5:05*pm, hachiroku <hacir...@e86.GTS> wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 15:53:11 -0700, Michael wrote:
> > I found this by accident (while looking for an article about a 16 year
> > old who modified his truck to run on batteries)

>
> >http://ecomodder.com/forum/fuel-econ...ifications.php

>
> > Alternator delete
> > Alternator deletes have been shown to increase fuel economy as much as
> > 10%. However, extra deep-cycle batteries (and/or another form of
> > power) must be used as a replacement, and their cost may offset any
> > economic savings of reduced fuel consumption.

>
> > That said, if your regular starting battery is in need of replacement
> > anyway, it could be replaced with a good deep-cycle battery for not
> > too much more money.

>
> > Fascinating. *I wonder how far you could go before the (deep cycle)
> > battery runs out of juice. *Plus the battery on my '96 Camry is on its
> > last legs. *Has to be a Deep Cycle (Marine?) battery, I know...

>
> > Could also be useful if someone needs a new alternator but doesn't
> > want to spend the money on a new one...?

>
> > Any comments?

>
> > Michael

>
> This has surfaced about 100 times in 10 years in this group.
>
> How are you going to power anything? You can use the radio, the heater,
> winsheild wipers, and wiht modern cars heavily computer dependant with
> electronic fuel injection, any battery will wear down rapidly.



Oh yeah, lights at night could be a problem =)

But this is interesting.
http://www.gassavers.org/showthread....ght=alternator

"i went for a nearly 50 km /
i went for a nearly 50 km / 30 mi trip today - nearly an hour - with
my alternator belt removed. the engine seems to run nicer,
particularly at low rpm where i usually have it - but that *would*
make sense in a low-power 3-cylinder where the electrical load is a
proportionately larger portion of total load.

round trip: 73.x mpg (US), 14 C / 57 F, combination of city & rural
secondary roads, 30 mph avg, 45 max.

the battery was down to 12.4 volts after the trip, meaning i used
roughly 20-25% of its capacity assuming a 12.6 v start. this was a low
load trip - no lights/heater blower, even relatively little brake/
signal lights.

i got the battery back up to 12.7 with 4 hours on the 2A 12v charger -
which i believe means I put 8 amp hours into it. which means that's
nearly what i took out of it (not accounting for losses in replacing
those 8 Ah): the car's electrical demand averaged about 8 amps in
almost 1 hour of driving (incl. multiple key-starts - maybe 4 or 5).

my jury rigged inner tube-based water pump belt popped off once. i was
expecting this and had a spare one.

if i'm going to keep doing this, i'll have to put one of my deep cycle
batteries in the car, or i'll end up wearing out the starting battery
prematurely."
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Old 06 Oct 2011, 07:05 pm   #4 (permalink)
hachiroku
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Default Re: Remove the alternator, get 10% better fuel economy?

On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 15:53:11 -0700, Michael wrote:

> I found this by accident (while looking for an article about a 16 year
> old who modified his truck to run on batteries)
>
> http://ecomodder.com/forum/fuel-econ...ifications.php
>
> Alternator delete
> Alternator deletes have been shown to increase fuel economy as much as
> 10%. However, extra deep-cycle batteries (and/or another form of
> power) must be used as a replacement, and their cost may offset any
> economic savings of reduced fuel consumption.
>
> That said, if your regular starting battery is in need of replacement
> anyway, it could be replaced with a good deep-cycle battery for not
> too much more money.
>
> Fascinating. I wonder how far you could go before the (deep cycle)
> battery runs out of juice. Plus the battery on my '96 Camry is on its
> last legs. Has to be a Deep Cycle (Marine?) battery, I know...
>
> Could also be useful if someone needs a new alternator but doesn't
> want to spend the money on a new one...?
>
> Any comments?
>
> Michael


This has surfaced about 100 times in 10 years in this group.

How are you going to power anything? You can use the radio, the heater,
winsheild wipers, and wiht modern cars heavily computer dependant with
electronic fuel injection, any battery will wear down rapidly.


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Old 06 Oct 2011, 08:16 pm   #5 (permalink)
hachiroku
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Default Re: Remove the alternator, get 10% better fuel economy?

On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 16:08:40 -0700, Michael wrote:

> On Oct 6, 5:05*pm, hachiroku <hacir...@e86.GTS> wrote:
>> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 15:53:11 -0700, Michael wrote:
>> > I found this by accident (while looking for an article about a 16 year
>> > old who modified his truck to run on batteries)

>>
>> >http://ecomodder.com/forum/fuel-econ...ifications.php

>>
>> > Alternator delete
>> > Alternator deletes have been shown to increase fuel economy as much as
>> > 10%. However, extra deep-cycle batteries (and/or another form of
>> > power) must be used as a replacement, and their cost may offset any
>> > economic savings of reduced fuel consumption.

>>
>> > That said, if your regular starting battery is in need of replacement
>> > anyway, it could be replaced with a good deep-cycle battery for not
>> > too much more money.

>>
>> > Fascinating. *I wonder how far you could go before the (deep cycle)
>> > battery runs out of juice. *Plus the battery on my '96 Camry is on its
>> > last legs. *Has to be a Deep Cycle (Marine?) battery, I know...

>>
>> > Could also be useful if someone needs a new alternator but doesn't
>> > want to spend the money on a new one...?

>>
>> > Any comments?

>>
>> > Michael

>>
>> This has surfaced about 100 times in 10 years in this group.
>>
>> How are you going to power anything? You can use the radio, the heater,
>> winsheild wipers, and wiht modern cars heavily computer dependant with
>> electronic fuel injection, any battery will wear down rapidly.

>
>
> Oh, wasn't aware it was so popular.
>
> I would guess the number of starts would be the limiting factor due to
> the huge starting currents. My '96 Camry doesn't have an electric
> heater xD



But you can't run the fan....


>
> 12 mile commute to-and-from work... wonder if a deep-cycle battery has
> enough juice to start up the motor a few times, run the spark plugs,
> stereo and computer. Would have to charge the battery when I get home
> of course.


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Old 07 Oct 2011, 12:36 am   #6 (permalink)
Michael
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Default Re: Remove the alternator, get 10% better fuel economy?

On Oct 6, 6:16*pm, hachiroku <hacir...@e86.GTS> wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 16:08:40 -0700, Michael wrote:
> > On Oct 6, 5:05 pm, hachiroku <hacir...@e86.GTS> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 15:53:11 -0700, Michael wrote:
> >> > I found this by accident (while looking for an article about a 16 year
> >> > old who modified his truck to run on batteries)

>
> >> >http://ecomodder.com/forum/fuel-econ...ifications.php

>
> >> > Alternator delete
> >> > Alternator deletes have been shown to increase fuel economy as much as
> >> > 10%. However, extra deep-cycle batteries (and/or another form of
> >> > power) must be used as a replacement, and their cost may offset any
> >> > economic savings of reduced fuel consumption.

>
> >> > That said, if your regular starting battery is in need of replacement
> >> > anyway, it could be replaced with a good deep-cycle battery for not
> >> > too much more money.

>
> >> > Fascinating. I wonder how far you could go before the (deep cycle)
> >> > battery runs out of juice. Plus the battery on my '96 Camry is on its
> >> > last legs. Has to be a Deep Cycle (Marine?) battery, I know...

>
> >> > Could also be useful if someone needs a new alternator but doesn't
> >> > want to spend the money on a new one...?

>
> >> > Any comments?

>
> >> > Michael

>
> >> This has surfaced about 100 times in 10 years in this group.

>
> >> How are you going to power anything? You can use the radio, the heater,
> >> winsheild wipers, and wiht modern cars heavily computer dependant with
> >> electronic fuel injection, any battery will wear down rapidly.

>
> > Oh, wasn't aware it was so popular.

>
> > I would guess the number of starts would be the limiting factor due to
> > the huge starting currents. *My '96 Camry doesn't have an electric
> > heater xD

>
> But you can't run the fan....



Ah, good point... and if it's stop-and-go traffic, the radiator fans
might not work either... oh, but then the spark plugs will probably
give out by that time too, huh...

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Old 07 Oct 2011, 12:34 pm   #7 (permalink)
NotMe
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Default Re: Remove the alternator, get 10% better fuel economy?


"Michael" <mrdarrett@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c67548a3-5c78-4701-8ba8-2ef1a47dd65e@db5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 6, 5:05 pm, hachiroku <hacir...@e86.GTS> wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 15:53:11 -0700, Michael wrote:
> > I found this by accident (while looking for an article about a 16 year
> > old who modified his truck to run on batteries)

>
> >http://ecomodder.com/forum/fuel-econ...ifications.php

>
> > Alternator delete
> > Alternator deletes have been shown to increase fuel economy as much as
> > 10%. However, extra deep-cycle batteries (and/or another form of
> > power) must be used as a replacement, and their cost may offset any
> > economic savings of reduced fuel consumption.

>
> > That said, if your regular starting battery is in need of replacement
> > anyway, it could be replaced with a good deep-cycle battery for not
> > too much more money.

>
> > Fascinating. I wonder how far you could go before the (deep cycle)
> > battery runs out of juice. Plus the battery on my '96 Camry is on its
> > last legs. Has to be a Deep Cycle (Marine?) battery, I know...

>
> > Could also be useful if someone needs a new alternator but doesn't
> > want to spend the money on a new one...?

>
> > Any comments?

>
> > Michael

>
> This has surfaced about 100 times in 10 years in this group.
>
> How are you going to power anything? You can use the radio, the heater,
> winsheild wipers, and wiht modern cars heavily computer dependant with
> electronic fuel injection, any battery will wear down rapidly.


Oh, wasn't aware it was so popular.

I would guess the number of starts would be the limiting factor due to
the huge starting currents. My '96 Camry doesn't have an electric
heater xD

12 mile commute to-and-from work... wonder if a deep-cycle battery has
enough juice to start up the motor a few times, run the spark plugs,
stereo and computer. Would have to charge the battery when I get home
of course.
{{

Many things run on electric in today's cars. If the voltage goes low (still
runs) the sensors could return erroneous data and that would likely screw up
any savings from removing the alternator.

FWIW auto alternators are not known to be efficient (ask anyone that's tried
to home brew a wind generator).

There are any number of things one could do to modify and increase fuel
efficiency but real world it's a case of diminishing returns.


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Old 07 Oct 2011, 01:45 pm   #8 (permalink)
Jeff Strickland
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Default Re: Remove the alternator, get 10% better fuel economy?


"Michael" <mrdarrett@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e7198bb3-bf30-43f7-8999-ec09ef226f00@i14g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
>I found this by accident (while looking for an article about a 16 year
> old who modified his truck to run on batteries)
>
> http://ecomodder.com/forum/fuel-econ...ifications.php
>
> Alternator delete
> Alternator deletes have been shown to increase fuel economy as much as
> 10%. However, extra deep-cycle batteries (and/or another form of
> power) must be used as a replacement, and their cost may offset any
> economic savings of reduced fuel consumption.
>
> That said, if your regular starting battery is in need of replacement
> anyway, it could be replaced with a good deep-cycle battery for not
> too much more money.
>
> Fascinating. I wonder how far you could go before the (deep cycle)
> battery runs out of juice. Plus the battery on my '96 Camry is on its
> last legs. Has to be a Deep Cycle (Marine?) battery, I know...
>
> Could also be useful if someone needs a new alternator but doesn't
> want to spend the money on a new one...?
>
> Any comments?
>
> Michael



Go ahead and do it, just don't head out across the desert at night with the
AC running on high.

There is no way in Hell you can drive a car very far without the alternator.
This is the stupidist thing I have seen in a long time -- well, since
JoeShitForBrains stopped coming around.


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Old 07 Oct 2011, 04:33 pm   #9 (permalink)
hachiroku
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Default Re: Remove the alternator, get 10% better fuel economy?

On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 22:36:41 -0700, Michael wrote:

> On Oct 6, 6:16*pm, hachiroku <hacir...@e86.GTS> wrote:
>> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 16:08:40 -0700, Michael wrote:
>> > On Oct 6, 5:05 pm, hachiroku <hacir...@e86.GTS> wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 15:53:11 -0700, Michael wrote:
>> >> > I found this by accident (while looking for an article about a 16 year
>> >> > old who modified his truck to run on batteries)

>>
>> >> >http://ecomodder.com/forum/fuel-econ...ifications.php

>>
>> >> > Alternator delete
>> >> > Alternator deletes have been shown to increase fuel economy as much as
>> >> > 10%. However, extra deep-cycle batteries (and/or another form of
>> >> > power) must be used as a replacement, and their cost may offset any
>> >> > economic savings of reduced fuel consumption.

>>
>> >> > That said, if your regular starting battery is in need of replacement
>> >> > anyway, it could be replaced with a good deep-cycle battery for not
>> >> > too much more money.

>>
>> >> > Fascinating. I wonder how far you could go before the (deep cycle)
>> >> > battery runs out of juice. Plus the battery on my '96 Camry is on its
>> >> > last legs. Has to be a Deep Cycle (Marine?) battery, I know...

>>
>> >> > Could also be useful if someone needs a new alternator but doesn't
>> >> > want to spend the money on a new one...?

>>
>> >> > Any comments?

>>
>> >> > Michael

>>
>> >> This has surfaced about 100 times in 10 years in this group.

>>
>> >> How are you going to power anything? You can use the radio, the heater,
>> >> winsheild wipers, and wiht modern cars heavily computer dependant with
>> >> electronic fuel injection, any battery will wear down rapidly.

>>
>> > Oh, wasn't aware it was so popular.

>>
>> > I would guess the number of starts would be the limiting factor due to
>> > the huge starting currents. *My '96 Camry doesn't have an electric
>> > heater xD

>>
>> But you can't run the fan....

>
>
> Ah, good point... and if it's stop-and-go traffic, the radiator fans
> might not work either... oh, but then the spark plugs will probably
> give out by that time too, huh...



Well, the radiator fans will WORK, but they are a good load on the
electrical system. And with EFI, when the juice goes low, the cylinders
stop getting gas

This would work better on an older car with a carb and an engine driven
fan with no AC and minimal electricals.

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Old 07 Oct 2011, 04:54 pm   #10 (permalink)
larry moe 'n curly
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Default Re: Remove the alternator, get 10% better fuel economy?



Michael wrote:
>
> http://ecomodder.com/forum/fuel-econ...ifications.php
>
> Alternator delete
> Alternator deletes have been shown to increase fuel economy as much as
> 10%. However, extra deep-cycle batteries (and/or another form of
> power) must be used as a replacement, and their cost may offset any
> economic savings of reduced fuel consumption.
>
> That said, if your regular starting battery is in need of replacement
> anyway, it could be replaced with a good deep-cycle battery for not
> too much more money.
>
> Fascinating. I wonder how far you could go before the (deep cycle)
> battery runs out of juice. Plus the battery on my '96 Camry is on its
> last legs. Has to be a Deep Cycle (Marine?) battery, I know...


Regular car starting batteries have a reserve capacity (RC) rating of
roughly 90-150 minutes, meaning they should be able to run a car's
electrical system, including headlights, for that long.

The electrical output of an alternator probably consumes 1/2 to 1 HP,
and from what Ford said about mechanical distributors, I'd expect the
alternator's bearing and belt friction to consume 3 HP.
(Ford was trying to justify why their 88 HP revamped 1.9L with
sequential port injection, tubular aluminum intake manifold, and
electronic distributor was actually better than the 90 HP older
version)
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