Scion FR-S Manual vs. Automatic: EPA Gas Mileage Estimate Differences

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Old 28 Jul 2012, 07:41 pm   #1 (permalink)
laminatedlove@gmail.com
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Default Scion FR-S Manual vs. Automatic: EPA Gas Mileage Estimate Differences

I noticed that the manual FR-S is estimated at 22 city / 30 hwy miles per gallon here in the U.S. By contrast the automatic is 25 city / 34 hwy!! Why the huge difference? If anything, manual cars usually get better gas mileage. What's the deal?!
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Old 28 Jul 2012, 09:27 pm   #2 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: Scion FR-S Manual vs. Automatic: EPA Gas Mileage Estimate Differences

In article <3f20d99f-4ff2-4d48-83c5-4a23112c3e78@googlegroups.com>,
laminatedlove@gmail.com wrote:

> I noticed that the manual FR-S is estimated at 22 city / 30 hwy miles per
> gallon here in the U.S. By contrast the automatic is 25 city / 34 hwy!! Why
> the huge difference? If anything, manual cars usually get better gas mileage.
> What's the deal?!


For many MANY years now, automatics have gotten better fuel economy.

The way of the world is automatic transmissions; you'll be hard pressed
to find a manual transmission pretty soon, and it'll be only at a
premium price. Anyway, with that in mind, automatics are getting huge
attention in engineering and are benefiting from all the computer
control.
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Old 29 Jul 2012, 12:44 am   #3 (permalink)
NM5K
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Default Re: Scion FR-S Manual vs. Automatic: EPA Gas Mileage Estimate Differences

On 7/28/2012 9:27 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <3f20d99f-4ff2-4d48-83c5-4a23112c3e78@googlegroups.com>,
> laminatedlove@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I noticed that the manual FR-S is estimated at 22 city / 30 hwy miles per
>> gallon here in the U.S. By contrast the automatic is 25 city / 34 hwy!! Why
>> the huge difference? If anything, manual cars usually get better gas mileage.
>> What's the deal?!

>
> For many MANY years now, automatics have gotten better fuel economy.


Really? The 05 Corolla with a manual was rated 2 mpg higher than the 4
speed automatic I have.
Myself, I think if an automatic is getting better mpg than a manual,
it's probably due to overdrive gearing that the manual may not have.
In the case of the 05 Corolla manual, I believe it was a 5 speed, and
the last gear was an OD gear. And it did do slightly better than the
automatic, even with the lockup solenoid, etc on the automatic..
But my automatic does do pretty well. Does 43 mpg at 65 mph,
which if I remember right, the rpms are 2400-2500 or so.
It does have an O/D, and has a button on the shifter to disable it.
I never touch it.. It stays on all the time.








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Old 29 Jul 2012, 06:43 am   #4 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: Scion FR-S Manual vs. Automatic: EPA Gas Mileage Estimate Differences

In article <jv2iji$4ad$1@dont-email.me>, NM5K <none@invalid.net> wrote:

> > For many MANY years now, automatics have gotten better fuel economy.

>
> Really? The 05 Corolla with a manual was rated 2 mpg higher than the 4
> speed automatic I have.


Toyota lagged behind. Honda started it awhile back.
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Old 29 Jul 2012, 09:53 am   #5 (permalink)
NM5K
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Default Re: Scion FR-S Manual vs. Automatic: EPA Gas Mileage Estimate Differences

On 7/29/2012 6:43 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <jv2iji$4ad$1@dont-email.me>, NM5K <none@invalid.net> wrote:
>
>>> For many MANY years now, automatics have gotten better fuel economy.

>>
>> Really? The 05 Corolla with a manual was rated 2 mpg higher than the 4
>> speed automatic I have.

>
> Toyota lagged behind. Honda started it awhile back.
>


The 05 Civic did not do any better than the 05 Corolla in this regard.
The only reason automatics have closed the gap is due mainly to the
lock up converters, more gear ranges, and computer controls.
This makes them more equal to a manual, but I don't really agree
that automatics in general now do better than manuals. After all,
a manual is nearly 100 % efficient at transferring power.
The automatics are now also about as efficient once locked, but
I don't agree that they are actually better, purely as a machine.
For some drivers, due to poor shifting habits, an automatic might
be better, but not for others that know how to drive.
If there is a fairly large difference, such as the appx 4 mpg in
this case, I bet it's due more to gear ratio differences more than
anything. IE: maybe the manual in this case has no OD gear.
I know the 4 speed automatic in mine locks the torque converter, is
computer controlled, and has an OD gear. And it was still slightly less
efficient than the 5 speed manual they offered that year.





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Old 29 Jul 2012, 10:20 am   #6 (permalink)
hachiroku
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Default Re: Scion FR-S Manual vs. Automatic: EPA Gas Mileage Estimate Differences

On Sun, 29 Jul 2012 00:44:08 -0500, NM5K wrote:

> On 7/28/2012 9:27 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>> In article <3f20d99f-4ff2-4d48-83c5-4a23112c3e78@googlegroups.com>,
>> laminatedlove@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I noticed that the manual FR-S is estimated at 22 city / 30 hwy miles per
>>> gallon here in the U.S. By contrast the automatic is 25 city / 34 hwy!! Why
>>> the huge difference? If anything, manual cars usually get better gas mileage.
>>> What's the deal?!

>>
>> For many MANY years now, automatics have gotten better fuel economy.

>
> Really? The 05 Corolla with a manual was rated 2 mpg higher than the 4
> speed automatic I have.
> Myself, I think if an automatic is getting better mpg than a manual,
> it's probably due to overdrive gearing that the manual may not have.
> In the case of the 05 Corolla manual, I believe it was a 5 speed, and
> the last gear was an OD gear. And it did do slightly better than the
> automatic, even with the lockup solenoid, etc on the automatic..
> But my automatic does do pretty well. Does 43 mpg at 65 mph,
> which if I remember right, the rpms are 2400-2500 or so.
> It does have an O/D, and has a button on the shifter to disable it.
> I never touch it.. It stays on all the time.


My mom stopped driving about 4 years ago, and her 86 Camry stayed in the
garage since. I decided it was too good a car to just let sit (86,000
miles on it) and took it over and have been using it for my job. It has an
AT with OD and lockup.

It generally does 31-33 overall, which around here is mostly rural/suburb
type driving.

Whenever I drove it I turned the OD OFF, because it shifted into OD ~45
MPH, which I thought was too low. However, since taking it over, I have
left the OD on.

THe other day I filled the tank, and did the calculations. I checked the
amount of fuel I put in, and read the odometer again, and it came out the
same.

40MPG. I think the car just sat too long and didn't get driven enough.
Since it's been driven every day I notice it is running a lot smoother
than it ever had.

I get 31-34 with my 5 speed Scion, albeit it has a 2.5L and a gas pedal
that says "Let's GO!"



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