why does the 2004 Totota Avalon use high test gas

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Old 18 Oct 2014, 03:18 pm   #1 (permalink)
Dutch
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Default why does the 2004 Totota Avalon use high test gas

My 2004 Toyota Avalon owners manual says that I MUST use a high grade of gas.
Why can it not use a lower grade of gas?

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Old 18 Oct 2014, 11:40 pm   #2 (permalink)
nm5k@wt.net
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Default Re: why does the 2004 Totota Avalon use high test gas

On Saturday, October 18, 2014 3:18:00 PM UTC-5, Dutch wrote:
> My 2004 Toyota Avalon owners manual says that I MUST use a high grade of gas.
>
> Why can it not use a lower grade of gas?


Evidently the compression is higher than the regular gas engines.
If the octane is too low, you will have pinging if the anti knock
sensors can't handle it. It will sound like a knocking sound when
you get on it. Not good for the engine.
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Old 19 Oct 2014, 02:06 am   #3 (permalink)
gamo
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Default Re: why does the 2004 Totota Avalon use high test gas

El 19/10/14 a las 06:40, nm5k@wt.net escribió:
> On Saturday, October 18, 2014 3:18:00 PM UTC-5, Dutch wrote:
>> My 2004 Toyota Avalon owners manual says that I MUST use a high grade of gas.
>>
>> Why can it not use a lower grade of gas?

>
> Evidently the compression is higher than the regular gas engines.
> If the octane is too low, you will have pinging if the anti knock
> sensors can't handle it. It will sound like a knocking sound when
> you get on it. Not good for the engine.
>


When you use high octanes in gas, you pay more, but people
say than you could run more kilometers for the same quantity
(in gallons) of gas. Could that be true?

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Old 19 Oct 2014, 10:14 am   #4 (permalink)
Brian Gordon
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Default Re: why does the 2004 Totota Avalon use high test gas

In article <m1vnth$g90$1@speranza.aioe.org>, gamo <gamo@telecable.es> wrote:
>El 19/10/14 a las 06:40, nm5k@wt.net escribió:
>> On Saturday, October 18, 2014 3:18:00 PM UTC-5, Dutch wrote:
>>> My 2004 Toyota Avalon owners manual says that I MUST use a high grade of gas.
>>>
>>> Why can it not use a lower grade of gas?

>>
>> Evidently the compression is higher than the regular gas engines.
>> If the octane is too low, you will have pinging if the anti knock
>> sensors can't handle it. It will sound like a knocking sound when
>> you get on it. Not good for the engine.
>>

>
>When you use high octanes in gas, you pay more, but people
>say than you could run more kilometers for the same quantity
>(in gallons) of gas. Could that be true?
>


I strongly doubt it. A chemical to reduce knocking has replaced a small amount
of the gasoline, so there is slightly less gas per gallon to burn. If
anything, that might lower your MPG. It would probably take lab equipment to
measure the difference either way.

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Old 19 Oct 2014, 11:05 am   #5 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: why does the 2004 Totota Avalon use high test gas

In article <m1vnth$g90$1@speranza.aioe.org>, gamo <gamo@telecable.es>
wrote:

> When you use high octanes in gas, you pay more, but people
> say than you could run more kilometers for the same quantity
> (in gallons) of gas. Could that be true?


No.

People *want* it to be true, but it's not true. Octane is not a "power
booster" that gives you "more energy". It's simply an indicator of the
fuel's ability to resist pre-ignition.

Now, will a lower octane fuel cause lower gas mileage in some cars?
Possibly. But that's not because higher octane fuel is "better" or
"contains more energy".
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Old 19 Oct 2014, 11:12 am   #6 (permalink)
gamo
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Default Re: why does the 2004 Totota Avalon use high test gas

El 19/10/14 a las 18:05, Elmo P. Shagnasty escribió:
>> When you use high octanes in gas, you pay more, but people
>> >say than you could run more kilometers for the same quantity
>> >(in gallons) of gas. Could that be true?


> No.
>
> People*want* it to be true, but it's not true. Octane is not a "power
> booster" that gives you "more energy". It's simply an indicator of the
> fuel's ability to resist pre-ignition.


Thank you, both. Another popular myth.

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Old 19 Oct 2014, 11:29 am   #7 (permalink)
badgolferman
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Default Re: why does the 2004 Totota Avalon use high test gas

Dutch wrote:

>My 2004 Toyota Avalon owners manual says that I MUST use a high grade
>of gas. Why can it not use a lower grade of gas?


You are reading your manual incorrectly. I have a 2004 Toyota Avalon
XLE and it says Regular octane 87 is required and Premium octane 91 is
recommended for higher performance. I've been using Regular fuel ever
since I've owned it.
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Old 25 Oct 2014, 06:13 pm   #8 (permalink)
nm5k@wt.net
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Default Re: why does the 2004 Totota Avalon use high test gas

On Sunday, October 19, 2014 11:29:43 AM UTC-5, badgolferman wrote:
> Dutch wrote:
>
> >My 2004 Toyota Avalon owners manual says that I MUST use a high grade
> >of gas. Why can it not use a lower grade of gas?

>
> You are reading your manual incorrectly. I have a 2004 Toyota Avalon
> XLE and it says Regular octane 87 is required and Premium octane 91 is
> recommended for higher performance. I've been using Regular fuel ever
> since I've owned it.


I haven't checked for that in my manual, but that's how my car
runs. It definitely seems to take advantage of the higher octane
gas by adjusting the timing. "variable valve timing".
I can tell the difference between regular and premium. Not huge mind
you, but there is a difference. It shows the most on hilly terrain and
such with a loaded car.
And seems a little more perky around town, but not hugely so.
It also idles smoother with premium than regular. I wouldn't expect a
difference there, but it does idle smoother on the good gas. I can
switch grades back and forth and see the difference. It's OK on regular,
but purrs like a sewing machine with premium. There is less vibration.
But due to the knock sensors and such, and variable valve timing, it does
not ping or knock on any grade of gas.




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Old 25 Oct 2014, 06:18 pm   #9 (permalink)
nm5k@wt.net
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Default Re: why does the 2004 Totota Avalon use high test gas

On Sunday, October 19, 2014 2:06:19 AM UTC-5, gamo wrote:
> El 19/10/14 a las 06:40, nm5k@wt.net escribió:
> > On Saturday, October 18, 2014 3:18:00 PM UTC-5, Dutch wrote:
> >> My 2004 Toyota Avalon owners manual says that I MUST use a high grade of gas.
> >>
> >> Why can it not use a lower grade of gas?

> >
> > Evidently the compression is higher than the regular gas engines.
> > If the octane is too low, you will have pinging if the anti knock
> > sensors can't handle it. It will sound like a knocking sound when
> > you get on it. Not good for the engine.
> >

>
> When you use high octanes in gas, you pay more, but people
> say than you could run more kilometers for the same quantity
> (in gallons) of gas. Could that be true?
>
> --
> http://www.telecable.es/personales/gamo/


No, I don't think so. I don't seem to get any better mpg on premium.
At least not enough to notice, and I track my highway mpg real close
when I drive to my dirt patch.
The engine just runs smoother, and seems more perky on premium
than regular once the timing adjusts for the change.
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Old 25 Oct 2014, 07:22 pm   #10 (permalink)
Jeff Strickland
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Default Re: why does the 2004 Totota Avalon use high test gas


<nm5k@wt.net> wrote in message
news:e67f0e1a-797c-462d-95f0-973801bd7fe6@googlegroups.com...
> On Sunday, October 19, 2014 11:29:43 AM UTC-5, badgolferman wrote:
>> Dutch wrote:
>>
>> >My 2004 Toyota Avalon owners manual says that I MUST use a high grade
>> >of gas. Why can it not use a lower grade of gas?

>>
>> You are reading your manual incorrectly. I have a 2004 Toyota Avalon
>> XLE and it says Regular octane 87 is required and Premium octane 91 is
>> recommended for higher performance. I've been using Regular fuel ever
>> since I've owned it.

>
> I haven't checked for that in my manual, but that's how my car
> runs. It definitely seems to take advantage of the higher octane
> gas by adjusting the timing. "variable valve timing".
> I can tell the difference between regular and premium. Not huge mind
> you, but there is a difference. It shows the most on hilly terrain and
> such with a loaded car.
> And seems a little more perky around town, but not hugely so.
> It also idles smoother with premium than regular. I wouldn't expect a
> difference there, but it does idle smoother on the good gas. I can
> switch grades back and forth and see the difference. It's OK on regular,
> but purrs like a sewing machine with premium. There is less vibration.
> But due to the knock sensors and such, and variable valve timing, it does
> not ping or knock on any grade of gas.
>
>
>
>



What really happens is the knock sensors detect knock and the computer
retards the ignition timing, not the valve timing.

Here's a challenge if you want to take the time to try it. My test tend to
show that if the car wants premium, but you feed it regular, then it will
retard the timing to avoid damage to the engine. You might not feel the loss
in performance, but it is there. The challenge is to run several tanks of
premium and calculate the Cost Per Mile and see if the cost per mile
actually goes down. Here's the reasoning, if you get 20 mpg with gas that
costs $3.50, then your cost per mile is $0.175 (3.50 / 20 = 0.175), but if
you put in premium that costs $3.70 but the mileage goes to 23, then 3.70 /
23 = $0.161. The cost per mile in this case is 0.014 less. Not much, but if
you drive 10,000 and save 0.014 per mile, then you save $140 per year with
the more costly fuel. It only cost more to buy, but if the mileage improves
as a result then it costs less to use, and the savings over a year is $140,
more if you drive more.

My car, a '94 BMW, wants to be fed the mid-grade fuel, but I fill at Costco
and I can get premium for the same price as the mid-grade at the gas station
down the street. Since my car only calls for the mid-grade, then I probably
get little to no benefit of premium, but the price is the same so I do it.
If I go to the gas station, I get mid-grade because my car gives better
mileage than with regular, so the cost per mile with the mid-grade is lower.
Your pricing will be different, but you can still calculate the cost per
mile. All you do is calculate the mileage, then use the result to divide
into the price of your gas. Your mileage remains the same regardless of the
price of gas, although the price of gas changes almost daily, so you should
keep track of the price of regular and divide a previous mileage calculation
into current pricing so you can compare what savings might exist with the
premium.

For example, if you bought regular three weeks ago at $3.40, and today it
costs $3.50, then your savings spread will be different because when regular
is 3.40, premium is 3.60 on that day, but the result on that day is still a
difference of $0.014, so While the premium costs more to fill the tank, it
takes you further so the actual cost is lower by about 1.4 cents per mile.

If your car calls for premium but tolerates regular, then you are not
hurting anything, but your decision tyo cheap out on the fuel might actually
cost you more. Try it on a few tanks and see what happens, I think you will
be pleasantly surprised.






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