Re: ? Does Anyone Know ?

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Old 08 Jan 2011, 11:21 pm   #1 (permalink)
Ray O
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"gallen" <1garyallen@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6d2ba312-47ef-4369-a329-79182807388a@l17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
Hello Ray,

No specific question at this time.

I thought this Group might be one where Lexus owners could " vent "
about the things like liked and/or disliked about their Lexus autos.

I experienced a lot of interest in how much I liked the car the first
week I had it but not much there after. The silly thing is that after
one week one really does not know how well they are really going to
like the car " down-the-road " as the saying goes.

At this point I could write a volume both good and bad and have done
so via U.S. mail to Lexus but never got a reply via E-mail or U.S.
mail. Guess they really don't give a tinkers damn about what they
could do to improve the machine, i.e., I have the impression feedback
does not interest them.

Regards,


Toyota/Lexus used to try to answer every letter; I spent quite a few late
evenings composing replies. I don't know if that policy has changed or not.

They do monitor and compile customer requests and suggestions on design but
obviously cannot incorporate every person's suggestions as some people's
likes are others' dislikes.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


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Old 09 Jan 2011, 12:11 pm   #2 (permalink)
David Z
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"Ray O" <rokigawa@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:igbei2$o2h$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "gallen" <1garyallen@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:6d2ba312-47ef-4369-a329-79182807388a@l17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
> Hello Ray,
>
> No specific question at this time.
>
> I thought this Group might be one where Lexus owners could " vent "
> about the things like liked and/or disliked about their Lexus autos.
>
> I experienced a lot of interest in how much I liked the car the first
> week I had it but not much there after. The silly thing is that after
> one week one really does not know how well they are really going to
> like the car " down-the-road " as the saying goes.
>
> At this point I could write a volume both good and bad and have done
> so via U.S. mail to Lexus but never got a reply via E-mail or U.S.
> mail. Guess they really don't give a tinkers damn about what they
> could do to improve the machine, i.e., I have the impression feedback
> does not interest them.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Toyota/Lexus used to try to answer every letter; I spent quite a few late
> evenings composing replies. I don't know if that policy has changed or
> not.
>
> They do monitor and compile customer requests and suggestions on design
> but obviously cannot incorporate every person's suggestions as some
> people's likes are others' dislikes.


My sense is that Lexus began seriously ignoring customers about a decade
ago. A perfect example is the hesitating transmission issue that began with
the 2002 ES. The problem persisted for about 4 model years and they've
never really addressed it to their customers' satisfaction. Just do a
google search, or better yet, do a search on the US National Highway Traffic
Safety Administration website to see all the complaints.

Either hubris from years of being ranked number one in customer satisfaction
or blind ambition to overcome GM as the world's largest automaker, or
perhaps both, are probably to blame.

I'm very satisfied with my 2004 ES, even with the hesitating transmission.
There's no other car I'd rather own. However, I'm not excited about the new
ES. Sluggish handling and poor rear visibility make me want for something
else. Next time I'm in the market for a new car, I may end up with another
ES, but not before I look around to see what else is available from Acura
and others.

As to whether Lexus employees monitor this newsgroup, probably not. And if
they are, they're not saying. I wouldn't blame them, though, for not
speaking up. If I were them, and was reading this group, I wouldn't say so,
either. But judging from their behavior over the last decade, they aren't
even reading their mail, let alone monitoring groups like this.


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Old 09 Jan 2011, 07:53 pm   #3 (permalink)
Wayne
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Default Re: ? Does Anyone Know ?


"David Z" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:8ou8emF1g2U1@mid.individual.net...
> "Ray O" <rokigawa@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message
> news:igbei2$o2h$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "gallen" <1garyallen@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:6d2ba312-47ef-4369-a329-79182807388a@l17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>> Hello Ray,
>>
>> No specific question at this time.
>>
>> I thought this Group might be one where Lexus owners could " vent "
>> about the things like liked and/or disliked about their Lexus autos.
>>
>> I experienced a lot of interest in how much I liked the car the first
>> week I had it but not much there after. The silly thing is that after
>> one week one really does not know how well they are really going to
>> like the car " down-the-road " as the saying goes.
>>
>> At this point I could write a volume both good and bad and have done
>> so via U.S. mail to Lexus but never got a reply via E-mail or U.S.
>> mail. Guess they really don't give a tinkers damn about what they
>> could do to improve the machine, i.e., I have the impression feedback
>> does not interest them.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Toyota/Lexus used to try to answer every letter; I spent quite a few late
>> evenings composing replies. I don't know if that policy has changed or
>> not.
>>
>> They do monitor and compile customer requests and suggestions on design
>> but obviously cannot incorporate every person's suggestions as some
>> people's likes are others' dislikes.

>
> My sense is that Lexus began seriously ignoring customers about a decade
> ago. A perfect example is the hesitating transmission issue that began
> with the 2002 ES. The problem persisted for about 4 model years and
> they've never really addressed it to their customers' satisfaction. Just
> do a google search, or better yet, do a search on the US National Highway
> Traffic Safety Administration website to see all the complaints.
>
> Either hubris from years of being ranked number one in customer
> satisfaction or blind ambition to overcome GM as the world's largest
> automaker, or perhaps both, are probably to blame.
>
> I'm very satisfied with my 2004 ES, even with the hesitating transmission.
> There's no other car I'd rather own. However, I'm not excited about the
> new ES. Sluggish handling and poor rear visibility make me want for
> something else. Next time I'm in the market for a new car, I may end up
> with another ES, but not before I look around to see what else is
> available from Acura and others.
>

I'm having somewhat the same feelings. My 99 RX-300 was the best car I have
ever owned...except that it seemed impossible to get the transmission fixed
when it blew up almost exactly at 100,000 miles.

Ended up with a RX-350, which has inspired a love/hate relationship. There
are so many good things on the car, but whenever Lexus made a mistake on it,
it was always a HUGE mistake.

Wife's ES-350 has been great (only a couple of months old) and doesn't have
as many annoyances as the RX.

Reviewing the buying decisions, I'd still buy the same cars.


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Old 10 Jan 2011, 05:34 am   #4 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: ? Does Anyone Know ?

In article <8ou8emF1g2U1@mid.individual.net>,
"David Z" <me@privacy.net> wrote:

> I'm very satisfied with my 2004 ES, even with the hesitating transmission.
> There's no other car I'd rather own.


I know what you mean. I loved my 93 ES.

But as I look around, I see that many, many makers have stepped up to
the plate. For example, Hyundai. Check out the Genesis or even the
Equus, if you want to spend a few bucks more.
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Old 10 Jan 2011, 07:18 am   #5 (permalink)
David Z
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Default Re: ? Does Anyone Know ?

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-CFF7A2.05341410012011@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <8ou8emF1g2U1@mid.individual.net>,
> "David Z" <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> I'm very satisfied with my 2004 ES, even with the hesitating
>> transmission.
>> There's no other car I'd rather own.

>
> I know what you mean. I loved my 93 ES.
>
> But as I look around, I see that many, many makers have stepped up to
> the plate. For example, Hyundai. Check out the Genesis or even the
> Equus, if you want to spend a few bucks more.


I've been reading about the Genesis. Gets very good reviews. Although more
than one reviewer has commented that the handling is somewhat unsettling and
lacks confidence. Not what you want for a car in this class.


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Old 10 Jan 2011, 11:47 am   #6 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: ? Does Anyone Know ?

In article <8p0bkqFc7eU1@mid.individual.net>,
"David Z" <me@privacy.net> wrote:

> > But as I look around, I see that many, many makers have stepped up to
> > the plate. For example, Hyundai. Check out the Genesis or even the
> > Equus, if you want to spend a few bucks more.

>
> I've been reading about the Genesis. Gets very good reviews. Although more
> than one reviewer has commented that the handling is somewhat unsettling and
> lacks confidence. Not what you want for a car in this class.


You know, I'd like to drive a Genesis and then an Equus, then go drive a
current ES, all right back to back. That would speak volumes.
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Old 10 Jan 2011, 09:19 pm   #7 (permalink)
David Z
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Default Re: ? Does Anyone Know ?

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-279072.11473710012011@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <8p0bkqFc7eU1@mid.individual.net>,
> "David Z" <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> > But as I look around, I see that many, many makers have stepped up to
>> > the plate. For example, Hyundai. Check out the Genesis or even the
>> > Equus, if you want to spend a few bucks more.

>>
>> I've been reading about the Genesis. Gets very good reviews. Although
>> more
>> than one reviewer has commented that the handling is somewhat unsettling
>> and
>> lacks confidence. Not what you want for a car in this class.

>
> You know, I'd like to drive a Genesis and then an Equus, then go drive a
> current ES, all right back to back. That would speak volumes.


When I'm ready to buy, I may just do that. Since I own a 2004 ES and have
had a new (2009?) ES as a service loaner for a few days at a time, I would
only need to drive the Genesis. I'd probably also drive an Acura TL and
some others as well.

I usually keep a car about 7 to 9 years, but my 6.5 year old ES has only 38K
miles. So it's really in its prime. Also, I don't see anything out there
that would even draw me into a showroom.


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Old 11 Jan 2011, 11:52 am   #8 (permalink)
gallen
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Default Re: ? Does Anyone Know ?

Very interesting comments about the Hyundai Genesis. I drive a 2010
LS640 AWD there are things I love and things that I truly hate.

My son was going to get an ES350 but when compared to the Genesis
there was no comparison, the Genesis was hands down the better car and
a way better buy. I really enjoy driving his Genesis. The only thing
better in the LS640 vs. the Genesis is the radio, seating comfort, and
the cabin is a little quieter. To me the most outstanding feature
( among others ) is the back-up camera, it's truly remarkable what
they did with it. When the GF backs up the Genesis she never more
drives on or over the grass; truly a remarkable engineering effort on
behalf of Hyundi for the Genesis.

Haven't seen the Equis yet but if Hyundai is trying for the LS market
I'd bet they are going to put a real dent in the Lexus high end
marketplace. The only real problem they are probably going to
encounter is name association, i.e., Equis with Hyundi Motors. I have
heard [ read as: 100% rumor ] that Hyundi is going to open specialty
high end dealerships to improve the stigma associated with a the other
Hyundi low end offerings.

On Jan 10, 7:18*am, "David Z" <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com> wrote in messagenews:elmop-CFF7A2.05341410012011@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> > In article <8ou8emF1g...@mid.individual.net>,
> > "David Z" <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

>
> >> I'm very satisfied with my 2004 ES, even with the hesitating
> >> transmission.
> >> There's no other car I'd rather own.

>
> > I know what you mean. *I loved my 93 ES.

>
> > But as I look around, I see that many, many makers have stepped up to
> > the plate. *For example, Hyundai. *Check out the Genesis or even the
> > Equus, if you want to spend a few bucks more.

>
> I've been reading about the Genesis. *Gets very good reviews. *Although more
> than one reviewer has commented that the handling is somewhat unsettling and
> lacks confidence. *Not what you want for a car in this class.


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Old 11 Jan 2011, 04:22 pm   #9 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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In article
<135bfaeb-b86f-43ab-a705-d750773ceafb@b25g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>,
gallen <1garyallen@gmail.com> wrote:

> The only thing
> better in the LS640 vs. the Genesis is the radio, seating comfort, and
> the cabin is a little quieter.


Well, the Genesis was designed to compete with the ES.

If you want to see how Hyundai competes with the LS, go drive an Equus.

I'm not one to harp on price, because it's all about the VALUE and not
how cheap it is. But even Car and Driver was impressed with the Equus
when put up against the LS. Equipped identically as possible, including
the recliner rear seat executive option, the Equus came in priced at
only two-thirds that of the LS.

Deserves a very hard look, IMHO.



> I have
> heard [ read as: 100% rumor ] that Hyundi is going to open specialty
> high end dealerships to improve the stigma associated with a the other
> Hyundi low end offerings.


Um, I don't think so. I think what they'll do is work hard on the
marketing angle to let Kia be their Toyota, and move Hyundai on up to be
the Lexus.

Well, maybe Kia will be their Dodge, and Hyundai will be their Chrysler.
Maybe that's a better way to think of it.

Consider: Hyundai dabbled in, then got out of, the minivan market.
They let Kia keep that.

Look at the Kia lineup, then consider the Hyundai lineup. You'll see
some overlap in the middle, but even the Sonata is overall at a higher
trim/feature level than the equivalent Optima.

At this point, it's all up to the marketing team. Hyundai will struggle
with their roots, though. It was relatively easy for Toyota to just
invent the Lexus division out of thin air, and ignore that it's just
another division of Toyota. It's relatively more difficult for Hyundai
to ask people who drove the 1986 Excel to come back and buy an Equus.
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Old 11 Jan 2011, 04:50 pm   #10 (permalink)
David Z
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"gallen" <1garyallen@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:135bfaeb-b86f-43ab-a705-d750773ceafb@b25g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...


> I've been reading about the Genesis. Gets very good reviews. Although more
> than one reviewer has commented that the handling is somewhat unsettling
> and
> lacks confidence. Not what you want for a car in this class.


Very interesting comments about the Hyundai Genesis. I drive a 2010
LS640 AWD there are things I love and things that I truly hate.

My son was going to get an ES350 but when compared to the Genesis
there was no comparison, the Genesis was hands down the better car and
a way better buy. I really enjoy driving his Genesis.

************************************************** *****

Here are Car and Driver's comments about the Genesis' ride:

"A more fundamental problem is the car's ride quality. The Genesis handles
decently-if you haven't been exposed to German luxury cars. But the
trade-off for decent body control and steering-it bests what's offered by
Lincoln and Buick-is impact harshness that borders on the unacceptable,
especially on Michigan's frost-heaved roads."

Consumer Reports' comments about the Genesis' ride:

"Handling is responsive and secure, but the car's weak link is its somewhat
nervous ride."


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