2010 Prius II: A/C on for Defrost?

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Old 25 Jun 2011, 07:17 am   #1 (permalink)
Leftie
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Default 2010 Prius II: A/C on for Defrost?

When I have that silly front defroster grid button pressed, the
climate control *not* in auto, and the A/C button isn't lit, is the A/C
still running when it's in defrost mode? Why can't they just have
defrost as another mode in the mode menu...?
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Old 25 Jun 2011, 08:19 am   #2 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: 2010 Prius II: A/C on for Defrost?

In article <ptjNp.19344$5v5.9172@newsfe11.iad>, Leftie <No@Thanks.net>
wrote:

> When I have that silly front defroster grid button pressed, the
> climate control *not* in auto, and the A/C button isn't lit, is the A/C
> still running when it's in defrost mode


Yes.


>? Why can't they just have
> defrost as another mode in the mode menu...?


Because people such as yourself don't understand that "defrost" means
"dehumidify" and that only the AC can dehumidify.

Toyota lawyers, ever the nannies of the world, want to prevent lawsuits
that result from stupid people driving around with their windows fogged
up and then claiming they caused some horrible accident because the car
didn't read their minds and do what was needed instead of what they told
it to do.

So they program the car to do what's needed--and, to prevent phone
calls, they specifically tell it not to light the AC light.
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Old 25 Jun 2011, 11:43 am   #3 (permalink)
News
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Default Re: 2010 Prius II: A/C on for Defrost?

On 6/25/2011 9:19 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article<ptjNp.19344$5v5.9172@newsfe11.iad>, Leftie<No@Thanks.net>
> wrote:
>
>> When I have that silly front defroster grid button pressed, the
>> climate control *not* in auto, and the A/C button isn't lit, is the A/C
>> still running when it's in defrost mode

>
> Yes.
>
>
>> ? Why can't they just have
>> defrost as another mode in the mode menu...?

>
> Because people such as yourself don't understand that "defrost" means
> "dehumidify" and that only the AC can dehumidify.
>
> Toyota lawyers, ever the nannies of the world, want to prevent lawsuits
> that result from stupid people driving around with their windows fogged
> up and then claiming they caused some horrible accident because the car
> didn't read their minds and do what was needed instead of what they told
> it to do.
>
> So they program the car to do what's needed--and, to prevent phone
> calls, they specifically tell it not to light the AC light.



At least they don't do as recent Hondas do and carry over the A/C
function to any subsequently selected environmental setting, even in
dead of winter.
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Old 26 Jun 2011, 04:55 am   #4 (permalink)
Leftie
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Default Re: 2010 Prius II: A/C on for Defrost?

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <ptjNp.19344$5v5.9172@newsfe11.iad>, Leftie <No@Thanks.net>
> wrote:
>
>> When I have that silly front defroster grid button pressed, the
>> climate control *not* in auto, and the A/C button isn't lit, is the A/C
>> still running when it's in defrost mode

>
> Yes.
>
>
>> ? Why can't they just have
>> defrost as another mode in the mode menu...?

>
> Because people such as yourself don't understand that "defrost" means
> "dehumidify" and that only the AC can dehumidify.



Wrong again, troll-breath! Heat will also dehumidify, as will
slightly drier air at the exact same temp as the inside air. I want to
make sure I can keep the windshield clear without either freezing my
feet with the Floor/Defrost setting, or being unable to briefly switch
to Recirculate when a diesel truck gets in front of me when I'm in that
stupid 'Front Defrost' mode. Toyota has made this an impossible dream.
On every previous car I've owned since 1986, including our Camry, one
could set the airflow to "Defrost" and still be able to activate -
briefly, to prevent re-fogging - the recirculate setting.

>
> Toyota lawyers, ever the nannies of the world, want to prevent lawsuits
> that result from stupid people driving around with their windows fogged
> up and then claiming they caused some horrible accident because the car
> didn't read their minds and do what was needed instead of what they told
> it to do.


So instead, they're going to cause accidents by making people look
down and repeatedly punch buttons until they can shut off the outside
air intake in heavy traffic. *Great* strategy.

>
> So they program the car to do what's needed--and, to prevent phone
> calls, they specifically tell it not to light the AC light.



I hope that you are, once again, wrong.

Any Toyota techs here who can give me a polite, informative answer?
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Old 26 Jun 2011, 04:56 am   #5 (permalink)
Leftie
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Default Re: 2010 Prius II: A/C on for Defrost?

News wrote:
> On 6/25/2011 9:19 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>> In article<ptjNp.19344$5v5.9172@newsfe11.iad>, Leftie<No@Thanks.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> When I have that silly front defroster grid button pressed, the
>>> climate control *not* in auto, and the A/C button isn't lit, is the A/C
>>> still running when it's in defrost mode

>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>
>>> ? Why can't they just have
>>> defrost as another mode in the mode menu...?

>>
>> Because people such as yourself don't understand that "defrost" means
>> "dehumidify" and that only the AC can dehumidify.
>>
>> Toyota lawyers, ever the nannies of the world, want to prevent lawsuits
>> that result from stupid people driving around with their windows fogged
>> up and then claiming they caused some horrible accident because the car
>> didn't read their minds and do what was needed instead of what they told
>> it to do.
>>
>> So they program the car to do what's needed--and, to prevent phone
>> calls, they specifically tell it not to light the AC light.

>
>
> At least they don't do as recent Hondas do and carry over the A/C
> function to any subsequently selected environmental setting, even in
> dead of winter.



I believe that I may be insufficiently grateful...
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Old 26 Jun 2011, 05:38 am   #6 (permalink)
bwilson4web
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Default Re: 2010 Prius II: A/C on for Defrost?

On Jun 25, 7:17*am, Leftie <N...@Thanks.net> wrote:
> * * When I have that silly front defroster grid button pressed, the
> climate control *not* in auto, and the A/C button isn't lit, is the A/C
> still running when it's in defrost mode? Why can't they just have
> defrost as another mode in the mode menu...?


Sorry but the AC is required to dehumidify the air. Physics and
chemistry is involved and these can not be fooled. Now you have
options but they are not that much better.

1) use a water phobic chemical coating - they are available in auto
stores. I tried them but they are effective at most for only one
season. They are basicly RAIN-X compounds and work but you'll soon
find the condensation is collected in annoying specs. Every year
you'll need to clean the windshield interior and retreat.

2) pre-heat the interior - not a common approach but simply put a
500-700 W. electric heater in the car and start it up early in the
morning, say when you first get up. This will increase the window
glass temperature and lead to lower, interior fog.

In theory, but not yet tested, is an exterior windshield block. What
this will do is preserve the interior temperature and minimize window
condensation. I may try this experiment this fall.

Questions?
Bob Wilson
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Old 26 Jun 2011, 06:57 am   #7 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: 2010 Prius II: A/C on for Defrost?

In article <CtCNp.3$LG7.2@newsfe01.iad>, Leftie <No@Thanks.net> wrote:

> > Because people such as yourself don't understand that "defrost" means
> > "dehumidify" and that only the AC can dehumidify.

>
>
> Wrong again, troll-breath! Heat will also dehumidify,


Heat will turn the moisture from liquid to vapor; it will not remove the
moisture, as the AC system will, troll-breath.

Think about it: in the summer, when it's damp and you want to remove
the moisture, you don't want to turn on the heater. There's a reason
for that, troll-breath.

The next time it's 70 degrees and damp and you see cars go by with ALL
the windows fogged up, now you'll know why they're doing it wrong.



> I want to
> make sure I can keep the windshield clear without either freezing my
> feet with the Floor/Defrost setting, or being unable to briefly switch
> to Recirculate when a diesel truck gets in front of me when I'm in that
> stupid 'Front Defrost' mode.


Then you don't get it. You think that the purpose of air conditioning
is to cool the air. No, that's the purpose of refrigeration--and that's
for storing meat.

Humans with their body heat and sweat mechanisms and their breath
exuding moisture need to dehumidify the closed environment in order to
stay cool.

You don't get it that the car's system is not like your house system; it
runs both the AC and the heating system simultaneously to keep the
temperature you want. The AC dries the air to keep you comfortable and
to reduce interior moisture buildup, and then the heater warms it (if
necessary) to keep you from freezing.



> Toyota has made this an impossible dream.
> On every previous car I've owned since 1986, including our Camry, one
> could set the airflow to "Defrost" and still be able to activate -
> briefly, to prevent re-fogging - the recirculate setting.


You're saying you can't do that now on some car you now own?

My 07 Prius lets me do just what you said. They even have a button on
the steering wheel for recirculate. It's a law in Japan that the recirc
button be readily at hand, just like it's a law in the US that the
defrost button be readily at hand.




> > So they program the car to do what's needed--and, to prevent phone
> > calls, they specifically tell it not to light the AC light.

>
>
> I hope that you are, once again, wrong.
>
> Any Toyota techs here who can give me a polite, informative answer?


Ah, the mark of one who doesn't like the answer so he calls the
messenger names and then goes shopping for an answer he likes.
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Old 27 Jun 2011, 12:03 am   #8 (permalink)
Leftie
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Default Re: 2010 Prius II: A/C on for Defrost?

bwilson4web wrote:
> On Jun 25, 7:17 am, Leftie <N...@Thanks.net> wrote:
>> When I have that silly front defroster grid button pressed, the
>> climate control *not* in auto, and the A/C button isn't lit, is the A/C
>> still running when it's in defrost mode? Why can't they just have
>> defrost as another mode in the mode menu...?

>
> Sorry but the AC is required to dehumidify the air. Physics and
> chemistry is involved and these can not be fooled. Now you have
> options but they are not that much better.
>
> 1) use a water phobic chemical coating - they are available in auto
> stores. I tried them but they are effective at most for only one
> season. They are basicly RAIN-X compounds and work but you'll soon
> find the condensation is collected in annoying specs. Every year
> you'll need to clean the windshield interior and retreat.
>
> 2) pre-heat the interior - not a common approach but simply put a
> 500-700 W. electric heater in the car and start it up early in the
> morning, say when you first get up. This will increase the window
> glass temperature and lead to lower, interior fog.
>
> In theory, but not yet tested, is an exterior windshield block. What
> this will do is preserve the interior temperature and minimize window
> condensation. I may try this experiment this fall.
>
> Questions?
> Bob Wilson



Yes. You really don't understand "relative humidity"? Do you believe
that you need A/C to defog your windshield when it's 40 F outside? No,
you simply warm the air passing through the ventilation system; this
lowers the relative humidity of said air, drying it. If the air outside
the car is lower in moisture than the air inside (and this is often the
case) then you simply need to blow it over the windshield to defog it.
Do you honestly believe that in countries where automotive A/C is not a
common option that they can't defog their windshields...?

I miss having a Volvo for one reason: the people in alt.autos.volvo
tend to understand both cars and physics.
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Old 27 Jun 2011, 12:14 am   #9 (permalink)
Leftie
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Default Re: 2010 Prius II: A/C on for Defrost?

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <CtCNp.3$LG7.2@newsfe01.iad>, Leftie <No@Thanks.net> wrote:
>
>>> Because people such as yourself don't understand that "defrost" means
>>> "dehumidify" and that only the AC can dehumidify.

>>
>> Wrong again, troll-breath! Heat will also dehumidify,

>
> Heat will turn the moisture from liquid to vapor; it will not remove the
> moisture, as the AC system will, troll-breath.


No, the moisture is removed as it exits the car with the air,
through that rear vent you probably don't even know exists. Further, as
air gets warmer, the relative humidity decreases. If you can stand the
ever-increasing temperature in the car, you can defog with heat even
with the recirculate on. It works much better, though, to just exhaust
the heated air and take in fresh air to heat and defog, when possible.


>
> Think about it: in the summer, when it's damp and you want to remove
> the moisture, you don't want to turn on the heater. There's a reason
> for that, troll-breath.
>
> The next time it's 70 degrees and damp and you see cars go by with ALL
> the windows fogged up, now you'll know why they're doing it wrong.



Other people's mistakes aren't at issue here. *My* windows don't all
fog over.

>
>
>
>> I want to
>> make sure I can keep the windshield clear without either freezing my
>> feet with the Floor/Defrost setting, or being unable to briefly switch
>> to Recirculate when a diesel truck gets in front of me when I'm in that
>> stupid 'Front Defrost' mode.

>
> Then you don't get it. You think that the purpose of air conditioning
> is to cool the air. No, that's the purpose of refrigeration--and that's
> for storing meat.


I understand dehumidification through condensation at the evaporator
coils. You don't seem to understand using dryer air at more or less the
same temp to defog.


(...) <snip further incorrect allegations about what I do and don't
understand>
>
>
>
>> Toyota has made this an impossible dream.
>> On every previous car I've owned since 1986, including our Camry, one
>> could set the airflow to "Defrost" and still be able to activate -
>> briefly, to prevent re-fogging - the recirculate setting.

>
> You're saying you can't do that now on some car you now own?
>
> My 07 Prius lets me do just what you said. They even have a button on
> the steering wheel for recirculate. It's a law in Japan that the recirc
> button be readily at hand, just like it's a law in the US that the
> defrost button be readily at hand.



The 2010 Prius has the recirculate button, but it will not operate
when the car is in front defog mode. Since you didn't know even that
much, you don't belong in this conversation.

>
>
>
>
>>> So they program the car to do what's needed--and, to prevent phone
>>> calls, they specifically tell it not to light the AC light.

>>
>> I hope that you are, once again, wrong.
>>
>> Any Toyota techs here who can give me a polite, informative answer?

>
> Ah, the mark of one who doesn't like the answer so he calls the
> messenger names and then goes shopping for an answer he likes.



I was looking for a "yes" or "no", not a brawl with a troll who
isn't even familiar with the vehicle in question. Further responses from
you will be ignored.
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Old 27 Jun 2011, 04:33 am   #10 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: 2010 Prius II: A/C on for Defrost?

In article <NsTNp.26766$_I7.24717@newsfe08.iad>, Leftie <No@Thanks.net>
wrote:

> > The next time it's 70 degrees and damp and you see cars go by with ALL
> > the windows fogged up, now you'll know why they're doing it wrong.

>
>
> Other people's mistakes aren't at issue here. *My* windows don't all
> fog over.


Au contraire. Other people's mistakes are the center of the issue
here--that's why Toyota has a stellar legal team that they pay a bunch
of money to.
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