The stupidity continues

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Old 26 Jun 2011, 06:48 am   #1 (permalink)
bwilson4web
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Default The stupidity continues

Reciently, the Detroit News published this article:

http://detnews.com/article/20110625/....2-mpg-by-2025

"By David Shepardson
.. . .
The 56.2 mpg figure and EPA's proposed greenhouse gas emissions limits
equivalent likely is an opening bargaining point. The final proposal
could change as automakers and the White House hold more meetings to
try to again reach agreement.

The administration plans to formally propose new standards in
September and finalize them by July 2012.

It estimated last fall that hiking fuel efficiency to 56 mpg by 2025
would boost the average vehicle cost by $2,100 to $2,600. But the
administration said the rule would save car owners $5,500 to $7,000
over the vehicle's lifetime in fuel costs, and owners would recoup the
additional up-front cost within 2.5 to 3.5 years.

The high mileage requirement would dramatically reshape what Americans
drive. Currently, passenger vehicles must average 30.2 mpg and light
trucks 24.1 mpg in government testing, but vehicles get far less in
real-world driving.
.. . ."

Hummm, 56.2 MPG, it is my summer mileage as my last tank was 52.4 MPG.

The real threat of the Prius and Insight has been their performance
eviscerates the 'we can't do that' arguments of those ignorant, sissy,
stupid idiots who prefer inefficient vehicles. Remember, these are the
same managers who drove GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy.

Look, I don't mind the fleeting and soon forgotten comments of hybrid
skeptics. My 2003 Prius is still getting better than 50 MPG after over
138,000 miles. It remains a hard fact the skeptics can insult but not
match. Screw the liars!

What it really comes down to is facts and data, something that fools
can try to ignore but over time, fades into the obscurity it so richly
deserves.

Bob Wilson
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Old 26 Jun 2011, 07:58 am   #2 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: The stupidity continues

In article
<88f73917-009e-4141-b3bd-0762593f4bab@16g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>,
bwilson4web <bwilson4web@gmail.com> wrote:

> The real threat of the Prius and Insight has been their performance
> eviscerates the 'we can't do that' arguments


But even Toyota can't do that outside the Prius, even using hybrid
synergy drive.
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Old 30 Jun 2011, 09:34 am   #3 (permalink)
bwilson4web
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Default Re: The stupidity continues

On Jun 26, 5:48*am, bwilson4web <bwilson4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> . . .
> It estimated last fall that hiking fuel efficiency to 56 mpg by 2025
> would boost the average vehicle cost by $2,100 to $2,600. But the
> administration said the rule would save car owners $5,500 to $7,000
> over the vehicle's lifetime in fuel costs, and owners would recoup the
> additional up-front cost within 2.5 to 3.5 years.
> . . .


Our first hybrid, a 2003 Prius, was bought even though it was more
expensive than the Scion xB we were considering. We kept careful
records and the Prius came within $50 of parity in the first year. The
replacement tires pushed us over but it also gave us LLR, excellent
tires that paid off over the following years. But it also reignited a
love of cars that I last felt with my 1966, VW MicroBus.

Prius studies, especially those inspired by fuel savings, have a
direct relief to our household budget. Compared to ordinary gasser and
diesel owners, Prius owners learn to exploit subtle aspects of warm-
up, driving profiles, lubrication, tires, and aerodynamics to save a
buck. This earns our self-confidence, our smug knowledge that we know
more than those stuck with inefficient transportation.

One of the ironies is we often shop in the same 'speed shops' and a
few technical publications as some of our lead-footed coworkers. But
instead of buying stuff to burn more gas, we buy stuff to save gas.

Bob Wilson


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Old 30 Jun 2011, 09:50 am   #4 (permalink)
Neo
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Default Re: The stupidity continues

On Jun 26, 7:58*am, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com>
wrote:
> In article
> <88f73917-009e-4141-b3bd-0762593f4...@16g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> *bwilson4web <bwilson4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The real threat of the Prius and Insight has been their performance
> > eviscerates the 'we can't do that' arguments

>
> But even Toyota can't do that outside the Prius, even using hybrid
> synergy drive.



While the Toyota Prius is the top fuel efficient mass produced
car in the USA, globally,the Toyota Prius fuel efficiency performance
is not unique.

Toyota's hybrid synergy drive also faces competing technologies
which have the potential to deliver similar fuel efficiency.

In Europe, the VW Polo Bluemotion hybrid reportedly can
match Toyota Prius hybrid synergy drive's FE performance

In Japan, the Honda Hybrid Fit/Shuttle mild hybrid FE
matches or is very close to that of the Toyota Prius.

In the USA, Cleanmpg.com forums are reporting that the
3rd Gen Prius is getting from 52 to 68 mpg overall and
the 2nd gen Insight is getting as high as 78 mpg.


(Hymotion) PHEV versions of the Prius can reportedly
gets up to 100 mpg. In the next few years China's BYD
and Korea's Hyundai hybrids will likely challenge the
Prius' dominance as the world's most fuel efficient
mass produced vehicle. Realizing that the position
as the leader will face signficant challenges in the
future, Toyota is planning to exploit the Prius global market
penetration and name recognition by expanding its
Prius product line - one of them is a smaller version of
the Prius (Yaris/Auris size) that many believe will
get higher MPGs than the 3rd Gen Prius.


The proposed fuel efficiency to 56 mpg by 2025 is a composite EPA
fleet fuel efficiency rating so some vehicles may get lower mpg
while other vehicles may get higher mpgs. The GM, Ford, Chrysler
were fighting the higher FE standards because it could potentially
limit the sales and raise the cost of hi-profit margin truck/suv
market
segment in the USA.


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Old 09 Jul 2011, 07:22 am   #5 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: The stupidity continues

In article
<ce397bff-cb5d-44c8-8b65-b06eff0447b2@d1g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
Neo <residualselfimage1999@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jun 26, 7:58*am, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com>
> wrote:
> > In article
> > <88f73917-009e-4141-b3bd-0762593f4...@16g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > *bwilson4web <bwilson4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > The real threat of the Prius and Insight has been their performance
> > > eviscerates the 'we can't do that' arguments

> >
> > But even Toyota can't do that outside the Prius, even using hybrid
> > synergy drive.

>
>
> While the Toyota Prius is the top fuel efficient mass produced
> car in the USA, globally,the Toyota Prius fuel efficiency performance
> is not unique.
>
> Toyota's hybrid synergy drive also faces competing technologies
> which have the potential to deliver similar fuel efficiency.


Toyota can't make the hybrid synergy drive efficiencies scale well.
They've proven that by implementing it outside the Prius with only
modest results.
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Old 10 Jul 2011, 07:51 am   #6 (permalink)
bwilson4web
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Default Re: The stupidity continues

Good to see you finally decided to turn of the automatic delete:

On Jul 9, 6:22*am, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
> In article
> <ce397bff-cb5d-44c8-8b65-b06eff044...@d1g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>

.. . .
>
> > Toyota's hybrid synergy drive also faces competing technologies
> > *which have the potential to deliver similar fuel efficiency.

>
> Toyota can't make the hybrid synergy drive efficiencies scale well. *
> They've proven that by implementing it outside the Prius with only
> modest results.


Electric vehicle technologies have advanced so the Leaf and Tesla are
considerably advanced over what had been available before. Yet they
still suffer from long refueling times. So the Toyota Plug-in Prius is
planned for 2012 and pre-production versions are running around . . .
competition for the Chevy Volt.

So far, we keep finding hybrids continue to lead in vehicle classes
per www.fueleconomy.gov:

Small Cars - Leaf, Smartfortwo electric, Civic Hybrid, Volt
Family Sedans - Prius, Mercury Milan/Ford Fusion hybrid, Honda Insight
Pickups - Ford Ranger, Toyota Tacoma, Chevy Silverado hybrid
SUVs - Ford Escape/Mercury Mariner hybrid, Mazda Tribute hybrid, Lexus
RX 450h

Toyota has no monopoly on hybrids but they do have the highest
mileage, family sedan, the Prius which is not an exception in
'alt.autos.toyota.prius.' <GRINS>

Bob Wilson

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Old 10 Jul 2011, 08:52 am   #7 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: The stupidity continues

In article
<281b2875-e840-42ff-b715-2448edf3d92a@10g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
bwilson4web <bwilson4web@gmail.com> wrote:

> Good to see you finally decided to turn of the automatic delete:


You don't have a clue what you're talking about, do you.
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Old 10 Jul 2011, 09:10 am   #8 (permalink)
bwilson4web
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Default Re: The stupidity continues

On Jul 10, 6:51*am, bwilson4web <bwilson4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Good to see you finally decided to turn off the automatic delete:
>
> On Jul 9, 6:22*am, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>


Minor typo but it is good to see you're finally tweaked your USENET
setting to keep them around. That automatic delete of their insults
after about a week is so childish of trolls. Still, we can have fun
with the self-deleting messages.

Bob Wilson
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Old 10 Jul 2011, 10:13 am   #9 (permalink)
bwilson4web
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Default Re: The stupidity continues

One of the joys of poking the troll comes from when they post their
nonsense with automatic deletion of their message:

On Jul 10, 7:52*am, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com>
wrote:
> In article
> <281b2875-e840-42ff-b715-2448edf3d...@10g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
>
> *bwilson4web <bwilson4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Good to see you finally decided to turn off the automatic delete:

>
> I don't have a clue what you're talking about. What should I do?


Well 'Elmo,' in seven days, your original posting will disappear and
only my quote of your message will remain.

I suggest you spend more time in political discussion groups where
your posts will be well received and enjoy the attention they deserve.
Your ignorance about the Prius and all things auto really has no place
here.

Talking about Prius, the June sales came in and this is likely to be
the lowest monthly rate since the Tsunami:

* 4,340 - June 2011
* 6,924 - May 2011
* 12,447 - April 2011
* 18,605 - March 2011

When the May numbers came out, there were a few snarky articles that
the hybrids were done. But something else is happening and other
hybrids are filling in the Toyota gap. If Toyota production resumes
and the gap fillers remain viable, we're looking at breaking the 3%
take barrier.

Adoption of a new technology often follows an "S" shaped curve. Now
that others have figured out how to make competitive hybrids, high
fuel prices and more ramp up the market penetration.

Bob Wilson





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Old 10 Jul 2011, 11:46 am   #10 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: The stupidity continues

In article
<33bb0978-6e48-4b3c-8186-22f18a5baab5@a11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
bwilson4web <bwilson4web@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I don't have a clue what you're talking about. What should I do?

>
> Well 'Elmo,' in seven days, your original posting will disappear and
> only my quote of your message will remain.


So, you're admitting that you pollute the netwaves with whatever YOU
want to say, regardless of the facts. That you don't hesitate to make
things up for your own entertainment.

You are the definition of a troll...

In the meantime, that doesn't change the fact that Toyota's hybrid
synergy drive simply doesn't scale well outside the Prius.

Hell, it doesn't scale well INSIDE the Prius family, as they admit even
with the Prius V.
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