Whiners about 35 MPG

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Old 22 Sep 2011, 11:26 am   #1 (permalink)
bwilson4web
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Default Whiners about 35 MPG

The obvious conclusion is you don't have the right model of Prius (see
thread comparing 2008 and 2010 models.) The 1.8L, ZVW30 Prius has two
major technical advances that directly address low mileage:

1) exhaust heated coolant - for those living in colder climates, this
accelerates warm-up to fuel efficient modes. It also reduces the need
to run the engine, especially in high wind conditions, to preserve
coolant temperature.

2) recirculated, exhaust gas injection - this avoids having to run a
rich mixture at high power settings to preserve the catalytic
converter.

Just go down to your local Toyota dealer and see if you can get a
trade-in on your current 1.5L, NHW20 or NHW11 Prius. The production
levels are coming back and new, 1.8L Prius are starting to arrive.
Meanwhile, the shortage has still inflated the price of your older
Prius. Instead of trade-in, you might try Ebay/Craigslist to see if
you can get a better deal than trade-in (often the case.)

Bob Wilson
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Old 22 Sep 2011, 02:40 pm   #2 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: Whiners about 35 MPG

In article
<a3f07f59-353a-4b40-8a32-fcdc4b9148b5@s20g2000yql.googlegroups.com>,
bwilson4web <bwilson4web@gmail.com> wrote:

> The obvious conclusion is you don't have the right model of Prius (see
> thread comparing 2008 and 2010 models.)


2007.


> Just go down to your local Toyota dealer and see if you can get a
> trade-in on your current 1.5L, NHW20 or NHW11 Prius.


That's about the dumbest financial advice anyone could give.
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Old 22 Sep 2011, 03:46 pm   #3 (permalink)
bwilson4web
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Default Re: Whiners about 35 MPG

On Sep 22, 11:26*am, bwilson4web <bwilson4...@gmail.com> wrote:
.. . .
> Just go down to your local Toyota dealer and see if you can get a
> trade-in on your current 1.5L, NHW20 or NHW11 Prius. The production
> levels are coming back and new, 1.8L Prius are starting to arrive.
> Meanwhile, the shortage has still inflated the price of your older
> Prius. Instead of trade-in, you might try Ebay/Craigslist to see if
> you can get a better deal than trade-in (often the case.)


The new, super-sized Prius is coming out next month and it very likely
that dealers may want to move their inventory. There is some evidence
of that on Ebay but there are other Prius sources, salvage rebuilders:

http://www.autobeyours.com/ - if they don't have an affordable 2010,
they can sell a 2004-09 with a plug-in modification or install it in
an NHW20. Toyota's Plug-In is announced for 2012 but initially, only
in the CARB states.

On the East Coast, TaylorAutomotive and on the west coast, Lucious
Garage and ArtsAutomotive. There are a boat-load of options just a
click and call away.

Now a lot of folks have gone with radiator blocks and engine block
heaters. I use both and they are effective. But since I have an 2003,
NHW11, I also use a careful, warm-up protocol for the first mile or
two which is almost as effective as a block heater.

All of these are the "low hanging fruit" to solve a 35 MPG problem.
Still, you know, horse, water, drink . . .

Bob Wilson
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Old 22 Sep 2011, 07:31 pm   #4 (permalink)
Daniel who wants to know
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Default Re: Whiners about 35 MPG

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-BCC477.15401822092011@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Just go down to your local Toyota dealer and see if you can get a
>> trade-in on your current 1.5L, NHW20 or NHW11 Prius.

>
> That's about the dumbest financial advice anyone could give.


I say do it, I hate HATE HATE!! the ZVW30 model, if the market were flooded
by NHW20s dumped by schmucks dumb enough to get the ZVW30 it would make the
used prices drop and make it easier for me to afford that 2005 or 2006
Seaside Pearl that I want.


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Old 22 Sep 2011, 07:37 pm   #5 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: Whiners about 35 MPG

In article <j5gk1f$o8$1@dont-email.me>,
"Daniel who wants to know" <me@here.edu> wrote:

> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
> news:elmop-BCC477.15401822092011@news.eternal-september.org...
> >> Just go down to your local Toyota dealer and see if you can get a
> >> trade-in on your current 1.5L, NHW20 or NHW11 Prius.

> >
> > That's about the dumbest financial advice anyone could give.

>
> I say do it, I hate HATE HATE!! the ZVW30 model, if the market were flooded
> by NHW20s dumped by schmucks dumb enough to get the ZVW30 it would make the
> used prices drop and make it easier for me to afford that 2005 or 2006
> Seaside Pearl that I want.


I saw a CT200h today for the first time. Looked interesting.
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Old 23 Sep 2011, 12:06 am   #6 (permalink)
bwilson4web
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Default Re: Whiners about 35 MPG

On Sep 22, 7:31*pm, "Daniel who wants to know" <m...@here.edu> wrote:
.. . .
>
> I say do it, I hate HATE HATE!! the ZVW30 model, if the market were flooded
> by NHW20s dumped by schmucks dumb enough to get the ZVW30 it would make the
> used prices drop and make it easier for me to afford that 2005 or 2006
> Seaside Pearl that I want.


Actually, we have some metrics on how the different Prius performed.
Using owner reported data from the EPA site, www.fueleconomy.gov, I
plotted the distribution of MPG for:

2001-03 - NHW11 Prius
2008 - NHW20 Prius
2010 - ZVW30 Prius

http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/MPG_010.jpg

Unexpected, the bottom 5% of owners, regardless of model, are flanking
35 MPG. This suggests is there are environments and drivers who for
reasons not yet diagnosed can't get better than 35 MPG. I had
contacted one low mileage owner several years ago. An intern, he lived
at the bottom of a hill in Boston and it was winter. Between on-call,
cold weather, and the hill, he had no possibility of getting good
mileage. Now everyone above the bottom 5% seems to get better mileage
with the more modern Prius.

The Prius median hangs in the 45-50 MPG bucket but the average Prius
owner has seen improvement with each new model. Too bad about the
bottom 5% but you know, sometimes life is unfair. Take it as 'lessons
learned' and move on.

Bob Wilson




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Old 23 Sep 2011, 03:04 pm   #7 (permalink)
Daniel who wants to know
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Default Re: Whiners about 35 MPG

> "bwilson4web" <bwilson4web@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:248a19bc-044d-446d-849f-b61fe0517ba3@n40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Actually, we have some metrics on how the different Prius performed.
> Using owner reported data from the EPA site, www.fueleconomy.gov, I
> plotted the distribution of MPG for:
>
> 2001-03 - NHW11 Prius
> 2008 - NHW20 Prius
> 2010 - ZVW30 Prius
>
> http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/MPG_010.jpg
>
> Unexpected, the bottom 5% of owners, regardless of model, are flanking
> 35 MPG. This suggests is there are environments and drivers who for
> reasons not yet diagnosed can't get better than 35 MPG. I had
> contacted one low mileage owner several years ago. An intern, he lived
> at the bottom of a hill in Boston and it was winter. Between on-call,
> cold weather, and the hill, he had no possibility of getting good
> mileage. Now everyone above the bottom 5% seems to get better mileage
> with the more modern Prius.
>
> The Prius median hangs in the 45-50 MPG bucket but the average Prius
> owner has seen improvement with each new model. Too bad about the
> bottom 5% but you know, sometimes life is unfair. Take it as 'lessons
> learned' and move on.
>
> Bob Wilson




My post had nothing to do with MPG, I get close to 30 combined and over 30
highway with a '97 Lumina and its EPA MPG ratings are roughly half those of
the NHW20. Sure there are things that are improved on the ZVW30
mechanically, but I don't like the aesthetics of it, I dislike the exterior
now, I HATE the suspended arch inside, I HATE the LCD MFD being replaced my
the VFD MID, and I hate the new implementation of SKS. I also don't like
ORVR being used instead of the bladder, ORVR is OK until the filter plugs
with dust (speaking of an '05 Impala here), then you can't fill up properly.
At least the bladder only has issues when it is cold or on certain pumps.

IMO they should have offered an NHW20ish model that has the new goodies
added without the silliness, IE the radar assisted cruise, EV ECO and PWR
buttons, ETC.


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Old 23 Sep 2011, 03:21 pm   #8 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: Whiners about 35 MPG

In article <j5iooa$lrn$1@dont-email.me>,
"Daniel who wants to know" <me@here.edu> wrote:

> I hate the new implementation of SKS


How does it differ from 2009?


> I also don't like
> ORVR being used instead of the bladder


ORVR?????
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Old 23 Sep 2011, 03:57 pm   #9 (permalink)
Daniel who wants to know
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Default Re: Whiners about 35 MPG

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-9A1FA8.16212123092011@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <j5iooa$lrn$1@dont-email.me>,
> "Daniel who wants to know" <me@here.edu> wrote:
>
>> I hate the new implementation of SKS

>
> How does it differ from 2009?


NHW20 either had SKS or it didn't, if it did there were black lock buttons
on the outside of the front doors and the hatch. ZVW30 has a reduced SKS
that only works on the driver's door, plus the normal version, depending on
the vehicle package.

>
>
>> I also don't like
>> ORVR being used instead of the bladder

>
> ORVR?????


Onboard refueling vapor recovery.


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Old 25 Sep 2011, 02:19 am   #10 (permalink)
bwilson4web
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Default Re: Whiners about 35 MPG

On Sep 23, 3:04*pm, "Daniel who wants to know" <m...@here.edu> wrote:
.. . .
> My post had nothing to do with MPG, I get close to 30 combined and over 30
> highway with a '97 Lumina and its EPA MPG ratings are roughly half those of
> the NHW20. . . .


We had a '91 Camry that delivered a solid 32 MPG but after it was lost
in accident, the replacement 2003 Prius has delivered 52 MPG from 2005-
current.

One unexplored possibility is driving the car in "B" instead of "D"
which also drives the mileage down, substantially.

It might be interesting to instrument rental Prius and record the
driving profile including GPS data. Then we might be able to figure
out the 5%.

Bob Wilson

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