Wish-list for 2012-13 Prius

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Old 25 Sep 2011, 03:24 am   #1 (permalink)
bwilson4web
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Default Wish-list for 2012-13 Prius

The NHW20 received some mid-life improvements in 2006. Notable was
fixing the MFD soldering problem. So to, the NHW11 only had three
years before it was replaced with the NHW20 but notable changes
included making cruise control standard. It is reasonable to expect a
mid-life improvements in the ZVW30.

We know backup cameras will become standard by 2013. This means the
graphical display is coming back but whether or not Toyota returns to
the integrated display of the earlier models remains unlikely.

I would like to see "fuel exhaustion you are now on battery" provided
as another safety feature. Unlike the 1.5L models, Toyota hid this
safety notice so only by monitoring the energy flow can a clueful
driver know when the last of the fuel is burned.

Now the Prius V addresses the 'station wagon' version to directly
complete with the Jetta SportsWagen. The mini-Prius, the commuter
version, will be out next year. Also, the plug-in Prius. But there are
a few holes in the line-up:

o hybrid panel van - take a Highlander and fix the body so there is a
utility van version and possibly an after-market, mini-RV.

o hybrid pickup - take a Highlander (or Prius V) and chop the body so
it is a two-seater or put in a front bench and then a flat-bed, pickup
bucket behind it. Give it some towing capability.

Bring back the bladder, only if the variable fill problem is solved.
But the goal should an improved fuel monitoring system that is
accurate and keeps the driver informed about the exact fuel state.
Include a software hook so the indicated MPG can be calibrated for the
car including dealing with different tire sizes.

Provide the same instrumentation as the default displays of the
ScanGauge: (1) coolant temperature, (2) engine rpm, and (3) fuel
consumption per unit of time. This would provide exactly the data
needed to efficient driving.

Put cooling air inlet vanes that minimize air drag. When the car is
cold, close the vanes, even in the summer, until the engine and
inverter coolant reach operational temperature. Then open only as much
as needed to provide adequate cooling flow.

Inside, it would be nice to see the center bridge go away. I know it
insulates the driver but we don't need 'walls' and it isn't clear that
it contributes to safety or structure.

Make sure the non-USA Prius still have the option of turning off the
pedestrian noise maker. There are ways to making a Prius noisy that
can never be defeated but they are not needed. Let the USA foolishness
show up on the roads until a future Congress 'gets a clue.'

Midlife Prius, a low profile, sports car with the largest electric
capability; a turbo-charged light-weight ICE; tuned steering, and;
independent rear wheel suspension (or rear-wheel motor.) Tune the car
for 0-60 in under 6 seconds and high-G turns with steering that
actually tracks yet responds with precision.

Bob Wilson

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Old 25 Sep 2011, 07:54 am   #2 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: Wish-list for 2012-13 Prius

In article
<663e9dd5-7abe-4e5e-9517-7f7088780bb4@18g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>,
bwilson4web <bwilson4web@gmail.com> wrote:

> We know backup cameras will become standard by 2013. This means the
> graphical display is coming back


It doesn't mean that at ALL.

Many mfrs are simply using the rear view mirror to solve that problem.
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Old 25 Sep 2011, 09:30 am   #3 (permalink)
News
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Default Re: Wish-list for 2012-13 Prius

On 9/25/2011 8:54 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article
> <663e9dd5-7abe-4e5e-9517-7f7088780bb4@18g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>,
> bwilson4web<bwilson4web@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We know backup cameras will become standard by 2013. This means the
>> graphical display is coming back

>
> It doesn't mean that at ALL.
>
> Many mfrs are simply using the rear view mirror to solve that problem.



Assuming sight lines out the rear and sides of the vehicle.
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Old 25 Sep 2011, 12:06 pm   #4 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: Wish-list for 2012-13 Prius

In article <U7OdnZJYG_C-puLTnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
News <News@Group.Post> wrote:

> On 9/25/2011 8:54 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> > In article
> > <663e9dd5-7abe-4e5e-9517-7f7088780bb4@18g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>,
> > bwilson4web<bwilson4web@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> We know backup cameras will become standard by 2013. This means the
> >> graphical display is coming back

> >
> > It doesn't mean that at ALL.
> >
> > Many mfrs are simply using the rear view mirror to solve that problem.

>
>
> Assuming sight lines out the rear and sides of the vehicle.


no no, I meant by putting a small display in the rear view mirror itself.

No need to bother with the expense of "the graphical display".
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Old 25 Sep 2011, 01:59 pm   #5 (permalink)
bwilson4web
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Default Re: Wish-list for 2012-13 Prius

On Sep 25, 9:30*am, News <N...@Group.Post> wrote:
> On 9/25/2011 8:54 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

.. . .
>
> > Many mfrs are simply using the rear view mirror to solve that problem.

>
> Assuming sight lines out the rear and sides of the vehicle.


The NHTSA issued a rule, NHTSA-2010-0162, in December 2010 for
rearview specifications of the area that must be covered behind the
car. You can download this from www.regulations.gov and mirrors won't
do.

Sad to say, the installer of my 2003 backup camera didn't understand
the goal so the camera is pointed at the horizon, not down at 15-30
degree angle needed to cover the area behind the car.

When I do my next 'car day,' I'll remove the trunk liner and remount
the camera properly and possibly add a shield so it won't see the
bright sky. The gain-control works great but a bright sky can drive
near objects into darkness. When the camera is aimed correctly I will
see the rear curb as it begins to be obscured by the bumper.

My 2003 Prius also has a backup LED light with beeper. Now I know
pedestrians don't pay attention to the beep but that isn't the point.
The idea is to give them the option, a audio as well as visual
indication of my vehicle's intention.

One other thought is to put small, piezoelectric disks co-located with
the front right and left turn signal lights. With the right voltage
matching resistor, they'll make a click each time the light comes on
and off.

But the ultimate safety system will be binocular, cameras that measure
distance and speeds of objects to the front and a wide range left and
right. The idea is to work on my own driver assistant. But I have
another project that is taking my time.

Bob Wilson
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Old 25 Sep 2011, 02:49 pm   #6 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: Wish-list for 2012-13 Prius

In article
<05f70684-2ad7-4c80-a7c8-5b8c308548d1@k17g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
bwilson4web <bwilson4web@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > Many mfrs are simply using the rear view mirror to solve that problem.

> >
> > Assuming sight lines out the rear and sides of the vehicle.

>
> The NHTSA issued a rule, NHTSA-2010-0162, in December 2010 for
> rearview specifications of the area that must be covered behind the
> car. You can download this from www.regulations.gov and mirrors won't
> do.


What the rule does NOT say is that "Toyota must install the
multifunction display back in every Prius in order to fulfill this rule".
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Old 25 Sep 2011, 04:28 pm   #7 (permalink)
News
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Default Re: Wish-list for 2012-13 Prius

On 9/25/2011 2:59 PM, bwilson4web wrote:
> On Sep 25, 9:30 am, News<N...@Group.Post> wrote:
>> On 9/25/2011 8:54 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

> . . .
>>
>>> Many mfrs are simply using the rear view mirror to solve that problem.

>>
>> Assuming sight lines out the rear and sides of the vehicle.

>
> The NHTSA issued a rule, NHTSA-2010-0162, in December 2010 for
> rearview specifications of the area that must be covered behind the
> car. You can download this from www.regulations.gov and mirrors won't
> do.


On this car.
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Old 25 Sep 2011, 09:46 pm   #8 (permalink)
bwilson4web
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Default Re: Wish-list for 2012-13 Prius

On Sep 25, 4:28*pm, News <N...@Group.Post> wrote:
> On 9/25/2011 2:59 PM, bwilson4web wrote:
>
> > On Sep 25, 9:30 am, News<N...@Group.Post> *wrote:
> >> On 9/25/2011 8:54 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

> > . . .

>
> >>> Many mfrs are simply using the rear view mirror to solve that problem..

>
> >> Assuming sight lines out the rear and sides of the vehicle.

>
> > The NHTSA issued a rule, NHTSA-2010-0162, in December 2010 for
> > rearview specifications of the area that must be covered behind the
> > car. You can download this fromwww.regulations.govand mirrors won't
> > do.

>
> On this car.


A performance standard, the regulation specifies minimum visibility of
seven, child-size, cylinders located in a specific pattern relative to
the center line and rear bumper. Two cylinders are offset ~5 feet
either side of the center line about a foot behind the rear bumper.
The other five must be fully visible about 10 feet and 20 feet to the
rear. A performance standard, it does not specify a solution. However,
they looked at several, off-the-self solutions and tested their
performance including references to the standard.

Bob Wilson


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Old 26 Sep 2011, 05:51 am   #9 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: Wish-list for 2012-13 Prius

In article
<6453fb9c-b6d7-4c16-b2f4-d4e99031372a@c11g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
bwilson4web <bwilson4web@gmail.com> wrote:

> > >>> Many mfrs are simply using the rear view mirror to solve that problem.

> >
> > >> Assuming sight lines out the rear and sides of the vehicle.

> >
> > > The NHTSA issued a rule, NHTSA-2010-0162, in December 2010 for
> > > rearview specifications of the area that must be covered behind the
> > > car. You can download this fromwww.regulations.govand mirrors won't
> > > do.

> >
> > On this car.

>
> A performance standard,


It still doesn't mean that they have to put the MFD into every model now.

They can EASILY solve this another way. Many are putting the small
display where the current fuel economy display is, and Toyota will
likely just tie the camera into that when the car's in reverse.

Your "this means MFD comes back on all models" is wishful thinking.
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Old 26 Sep 2011, 08:54 am   #10 (permalink)
bwilson4web
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Default Re: Wish-list for 2012-13 Prius

On Sep 26, 5:51*am, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com>
wrote:
> In article
> <6453fb9c-b6d7-4c16-b2f4-d4e990313...@c11g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
>
> *bwilson4web <bwilson4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>> Many mfrs are simply using the rear view mirror to solve that problem.

>
> > > >> Assuming sight lines out the rear and sides of the vehicle.

>
> > > > The NHTSA issued a rule, NHTSA-2010-0162, in December 2010 for
> > > > rearview specifications of the area that must be covered behind the
> > > > car. You can download this fromwww.regulations.govandmirrors won't
> > > > do.

>
> > > On this car.

>
> > A performance standard,

>
> It still doesn't mean that they have to put the MFD into every model now.


It means Toyota has to provide a backup camera and display which
Toyota has already designed and is an option in the existing Prius.

> They can EASILY solve this another way. *


Not so easily as our ZVW30 rear view mirror is glued to the windshield
and has no power connections.

> . . . Many are putting the small
> display where the current fuel economy display is,


Many others manufactures have no option because they have models that
never had a designed and implemented backup camera system. But Toyota
also has an accident avoidance system and the photos show it has a
camera mounted in it, something not found in the LCD equipped
displays. In short, the after-market, LDC mirrors are a quick solution
for those who never made a backup camera system and do not have
advanced, accident avoidance systems with rear-view mirror integrated
camera.

> . . . and Toyota will
> likely just tie the camera into that when the car's in reverse.


So on one hand Toyota already has a backup camera and display. The
engineering, integration and design is done and a substantial amount
of operational experience. On the other is qualifying another supplier
of unknown quality and operational experience. It is a fair bet Toyota
won't 're-invent the wheel' or run off and buy some marginal, 3d party
part. But I have experience with a mirror mounted, backup camera.

I've already done the backup mirror with LCD display experiment with
our 2003 Prius. It mostly works except last week when the 'bluetooth'
would not connect. Then the installer put the camera mounted in the
wrong location from my request. I'll wind up taking it out and re-
mounting it at the top of the rear window and pointed downward so I
can actually see the area behind the car. I'll have to close the
existing camera mount hole but that is not a big deal.

> Your "this means MFD comes back on all models" is wishful thinking.


The thread title is "Wish-list for 2012-13 Prius." You're wishing
Toyota will join the lemings but they introduced and sold the Prius
that still out performs all hybrids and competes nicely against the
Volt.

Bob Wilson
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