Charge Issue

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Old 16 Jun 2012, 12:45 pm   #1 (permalink)
Michael Dobony
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Default Charge Issue

2007 Prius: While checking the error code I noticed that the engine was
charging the drive battery in park, per the info screen, but the charge
went from 4 bars down to 3. I also noticed that many times the charge when
I start seems quite low. When I check the voltage per the info screen it
says 12.3-12.5 volts. Going from On to Accessory mode and turn on the
lights it drops to 11.3. There seems to be a lot of conflicting info on
this as to whether or not the 12 v is good under these conditions. I'm not
sure if this is a new or OEM battery as bought used a few months ago.

Mike D.
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Old 18 Jun 2012, 03:06 am   #2 (permalink)
Daniel who wants to know
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Default Re: Charge Issue

"Michael Dobony" <survey@stopassaultnow.net> wrote in message
news:13ayu641dwjhb.18rslje6fxnnr$.dlg@40tude.net.. .
> 2007 Prius: While checking the error code I noticed that the engine was
> charging the drive battery in park, per the info screen, but the charge
> went from 4 bars down to 3. I also noticed that many times the charge when
> I start seems quite low. When I check the voltage per the info screen it
> says 12.3-12.5 volts. Going from On to Accessory mode and turn on the
> lights it drops to 11.3. There seems to be a lot of conflicting info on
> this as to whether or not the 12 v is good under these conditions. I'm not
> sure if this is a new or OEM battery as bought used a few months ago.
>
> Mike D.


The battery bars on the energy monitor screen have nothing to do with the
12v battery, they only show the HV battery state, and 1 pink bar is actually
~40% state of charge, all green bars are actually ~80% SoC.


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Old 18 Jun 2012, 11:45 am   #3 (permalink)
Michael Dobony
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Default Re: Charge Issue

On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 03:06:20 -0500, Daniel who wants to know wrote:

> "Michael Dobony" <survey@stopassaultnow.net> wrote in message
> news:13ayu641dwjhb.18rslje6fxnnr$.dlg@40tude.net.. .
>> 2007 Prius: While checking the error code I noticed that the engine was
>> charging the drive battery in park, per the info screen, but the charge
>> went from 4 bars down to 3. I also noticed that many times the charge when
>> I start seems quite low. When I check the voltage per the info screen it
>> says 12.3-12.5 volts. Going from On to Accessory mode and turn on the
>> lights it drops to 11.3. There seems to be a lot of conflicting info on
>> this as to whether or not the 12 v is good under these conditions. I'm not
>> sure if this is a new or OEM battery as bought used a few months ago.
>>
>> Mike D.

>
> The battery bars on the energy monitor screen have nothing to do with the
> 12v battery, they only show the HV battery state, and 1 pink bar is actually
> ~40% state of charge, all green bars are actually ~80% SoC.


DUH! But the HV battery charges the 12V. When the vehicle is off it can
still drain the HV battery, trying to charge a bad 12v.
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Old 18 Jun 2012, 01:35 pm   #4 (permalink)
Pat
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Default Re: Charge Issue

On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:45:53 -0500, Michael Dobony
<survey@stopassaultnow.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 03:06:20 -0500, Daniel who wants to know wrote:
>
>> "Michael Dobony" <survey@stopassaultnow.net> wrote in message
>> news:13ayu641dwjhb.18rslje6fxnnr$.dlg@40tude.net.. .
>>> 2007 Prius: While checking the error code I noticed that the engine was
>>> charging the drive battery in park, per the info screen, but the charge
>>> went from 4 bars down to 3. I also noticed that many times the charge when
>>> I start seems quite low. When I check the voltage per the info screen it
>>> says 12.3-12.5 volts. Going from On to Accessory mode and turn on the
>>> lights it drops to 11.3. There seems to be a lot of conflicting info on
>>> this as to whether or not the 12 v is good under these conditions. I'm not
>>> sure if this is a new or OEM battery as bought used a few months ago.
>>>
>>> Mike D.

>>
>> The battery bars on the energy monitor screen have nothing to do with the
>> 12v battery, they only show the HV battery state, and 1 pink bar is actually
>> ~40% state of charge, all green bars are actually ~80% SoC.

>
>DUH! But the HV battery charges the 12V. When the vehicle is off it can
>still drain the HV battery, trying to charge a bad 12v.


I don't believe that is true. When the vehicle is off, the HV
battery is effectively disconnected for safety reasons. It will not
charge the 12v when the vehicle is off.

Pat

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Old 18 Jun 2012, 06:33 pm   #5 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: Charge Issue

In article <ja8487ofryt3.1hjjrff4duaqd$.dlg@40tude.net>,
Michael Dobony <survey@stopassaultnow.net> wrote:

> When the vehicle is off it can
> still drain the HV battery, trying to charge a bad 12v.


When the vehicle is off, the vehicle is OFF--just like with any other
car.

The ONLY power usage would be from the accessories that draw from the
12v battery.

The traction battery is NOT in play when the car is off. Period. When
you turn the car on, just like with any other car, the car will then
charge the 12v battery--to the best of its ability. If the 12v battery
is faulty in some way, it may not take the charge properly.

But none of that has anything to do with the traction battery.
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Old 18 Jun 2012, 11:00 pm   #6 (permalink)
walt m
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Default Re: Charge Issue

On 6/16/2012 1:45 PM, Michael Dobony wrote:
> 2007 Prius: While checking the error code I noticed that the engine was
> charging the drive battery in park, per the info screen, but the charge
> went from 4 bars down to 3. I also noticed that many times the charge when
> I start seems quite low. When I check the voltage per the info screen it
> says 12.3-12.5 volts. Going from On to Accessory mode and turn on the
> lights it drops to 11.3. There seems to be a lot of conflicting info on
> this as to whether or not the 12 v is good under these conditions. I'm not
> sure if this is a new or OEM battery as bought used a few months ago.
>
> Mike D.

It can't hurt to go somewhere and have the small 12v battery tested. It
shouldn't drain the HV battery that quickly under normal circumstances
if the car is on and not moving.
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Old 19 Jun 2012, 12:26 am   #7 (permalink)
Daniel who wants to know
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Default Re: Charge Issue

"Michael Dobony" <survey@stopassaultnow.net> wrote in message
news:ja8487ofryt3.1hjjrff4duaqd$.dlg@40tude.net...
> DUH! But the HV battery charges the 12V. When the vehicle is off it can
> still drain the HV battery, trying to charge a bad 12v.


The HV relays are only closed and the DC-DC converter in the inverter
assembly is only active when the READY light is on, hence as the other 2
said it doesn't supply the 12v with the car off (or in ACC and IG-ON modes).


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Old 25 Jun 2012, 11:35 am   #8 (permalink)
Michael Dobony
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Default Re: Charge Issue

On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 00:00:06 -0400, walt m wrote:

> On 6/16/2012 1:45 PM, Michael Dobony wrote:
>> 2007 Prius: While checking the error code I noticed that the engine was
>> charging the drive battery in park, per the info screen, but the charge
>> went from 4 bars down to 3. I also noticed that many times the charge when
>> I start seems quite low. When I check the voltage per the info screen it
>> says 12.3-12.5 volts. Going from On to Accessory mode and turn on the
>> lights it drops to 11.3. There seems to be a lot of conflicting info on
>> this as to whether or not the 12 v is good under these conditions. I'm not
>> sure if this is a new or OEM battery as bought used a few months ago.
>>
>> Mike D.

> It can't hurt to go somewhere and have the small 12v battery tested. It
> shouldn't drain the HV battery that quickly under normal circumstances
> if the car is on and not moving.


Where? The Prius 12v can't be tested with a normal tester and I don't trust
my Toyota dealer. The oil was a quart high (Chevy dealer I bought the car
from) and when I took the car in to the Toyota dealer they claimed to have
checked all the fluid levels, but failed to notice this major discrepancy.
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Old 25 Jun 2012, 11:38 am   #9 (permalink)
Michael Dobony
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Default Re: Charge Issue

On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:33:32 -0400, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

> In article <ja8487ofryt3.1hjjrff4duaqd$.dlg@40tude.net>,
> Michael Dobony <survey@stopassaultnow.net> wrote:
>
>> When the vehicle is off it can
>> still drain the HV battery, trying to charge a bad 12v.

>
> When the vehicle is off, the vehicle is OFF--just like with any other
> car.
>
> The ONLY power usage would be from the accessories that draw from the
> 12v battery.
>
> The traction battery is NOT in play when the car is off. Period. When
> you turn the car on, just like with any other car, the car will then
> charge the 12v battery--to the best of its ability. If the 12v battery
> is faulty in some way, it may not take the charge properly.
>
> But none of that has anything to do with the traction battery.


But the traction battery charges the 12v, and therefore affects the HV,
pulling a charge from it and requiring charging rather than used for
traction. This is why a weak 12v can affect gas mileage. The first few
miles puts a tremendous drain on the traction battery. I can start the car
with 3/4 charge and be down to 2 bars in a few miles. After that it's fine.
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Old 25 Jun 2012, 05:52 pm   #10 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: Charge Issue

In article <kjf9y98gm67o.4nw77x496cdw.dlg@40tude.net>,
Michael Dobony <survey@stopassaultnow.net> wrote:

> > In article <ja8487ofryt3.1hjjrff4duaqd$.dlg@40tude.net>,
> > Michael Dobony <survey@stopassaultnow.net> wrote:
> >
> >> When the vehicle is off it can
> >> still drain the HV battery, trying to charge a bad 12v.


I broke this part of the quote out because you said, unambiguously, that
"when the vehicle is off it can still drain the HV battery, trying to
charge a bad 12v".

Now, I don't know what form of English you learned, but what you wrote
is plain and unambiguous.

You said that when the vehicle is off that it can still drain the HV
battery.

To which I replied:
> >
> > When the vehicle is off, the vehicle is OFF--just like with any other
> > car.
> >
> > The ONLY power usage would be from the accessories that draw from the
> > 12v battery.
> >
> > The traction battery is NOT in play when the car is off. Period. When
> > you turn the car on, just like with any other car, the car will then
> > charge the 12v battery--to the best of its ability. If the 12v battery
> > is faulty in some way, it may not take the charge properly.
> >
> > But none of that has anything to do with the traction battery.



Then for some reason you come back with a total non-sequitur, talking
about how the traction battery charges the 12v:
>
> But the traction battery charges the 12v, and therefore affects the HV,
> pulling a charge from it and requiring charging rather than used for
> traction. This is why a weak 12v can affect gas mileage. The first few
> miles puts a tremendous drain on the traction battery. I can start the car
> with 3/4 charge and be down to 2 bars in a few miles. After that it's fine.


That was never the point of discussion and has nothing to do with the
fact that what you said was incorrect--and that when the vehicle is off
it CANNOT by definition drain the HV battery.
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